complex like no other : \ I doubt there's even a right answer

Hello Loveforum,

This is going to be long, in-depth, and complicated. If you can even provide an idea or thought, that's fine. If you think there's a way to go about this, that's great too. Feel free to reply. Ok, here it goes :

It all started 7 years ago. I had a best friend, (we'll call her jill for sake of ease). I met her in high school and we became best friends. Jill and I were inseparable from sophomore of high school - end of senior year. Same sense of humor, culture, language, everything. Of course, I was a bit fatter, a bit dumb when it came to expressing myself to women and my feelings, etc. So, we remained friends but I always liked her. After about a year of being good friends, I realized that I wasn't going to be able to be with this girl (or so I thought).

Now I have another best friend (male. we'll call him Jack for sake of ease). Jack and I have been buddies since kindergarten. We became absolute best friends around 7th-8th grade. I mean, we were absolute best friends. Never have I ever had a true close friend like this (even to this day, 7 years later). We hung out and were absolute best male friends. Grew up together basically.

Now, because I loved Jill and wanted only the best for her, instead of being greedy and stuck up about it, I introduced her to Jack. Jack and Jill were pretty cool with each other and even liked each other. They started to date. They dated for over a year + but broke it off early senior year. Jill was devastated and obviously ran to her best friend (me). Me, being caught in between this with my feelings, could only console her to a certain point and protect Jack (since Jack and I really grew up together) by obviously not revealing some info about him, etc. (reasons for breaking it off among other things).

So, Jill at the end of senior year realizes it's college time. College is much cheaper in Denver than here, so she goes to Denver. and life goes on. I don't really see or talk to Jill for 3 years practically. Jill comes on occasion back home, but a week at best, then heads back to Denver.

Meanwhile, Jack in college in Florida. Florida State is awesome, and we talk on occasion, but obviously not all the time. Jack of course is the man. He's my best friend I grew up with him.

During these 3 years, I grow up and learn a few things. I lose a little bit of weight. I learn how to talk to women a little bit. I change and grow up a little more. But....I still have never had a girlfriend. I've really just never had a chance to become sexual or passionate with any woman.

At the end of 3 years, Jill and I get a great idea together. I would fly out to Denver and spend a week and a half with her. During this week and half, I fall in love with her. My feelings that were dormant, spring up like wildfire. We have a wonderful time and she comes back home with me and we spend 2 weeks with one another. Her parents fall in love with me (since I've grown up during the past 3 years). Both sides of her grandparents love me. So Jill is pressured a little bit to give me a shot. I reveal my feelings to her and she is unsure of what to do. So, Jill and I sleep together for the first time. It is the best 4 days of my life. For the first time, I was sexual and passionate with someone I was in love with. I will never forget those 4 days of my life. Then, Jill breaks it off out of nowhere. Jill feels that she acted too quickly and was really just pressured into doing it because of convenience and parents. Jill breaks my heart.

Jill flies back to Denver and back to her life. Meanwhile, I'm home, depressed. I'm saddened by being rejected, but more so because we were perfect together. Remember, love forum, this is a girl who has the same (RARE) sense of humor as me, the same language, culture, everything. It's like it was meant to be (not to sound cheesy). The year is a difficult one. I deal with the longest, hardest emotional depression of my life. I want to talk to someone. but i can't. my best friend (JACK) used to date her. There's a conflict of interest here. It's the ONE topic in our entire 17 years as friends we cannot discuss easily and openly.

Jill finishes her semester in Denver and comes back about 5 months after my depression started. I futilely ask her if she would just give it another shot. She refuses. outright saying that she does not feel that way for me.

Now THIS IS WHERE, it starts becoming complicated and irrational a bit. Bear with me.

I introduced Jill to all the friends she knows now (pretty much. I'm not trying to sound like "the man" or anything. I'm objectively saying that all her current friends, aside from a select few, she met through me.) There were a few I called my good friends in this group. 2 of them (we'll say Rocky and Ronnie for sake of ease) are pretty good friends.

In this period of time, I have gotten extremely depressed--crying, complaining to other friends, praying to God (earnestly)--just hoping the pain will stop. Once again, I grow up a little in these remaining 6 months, gather myself together, and start going on a binge. I start going out and meeting new women. I sleep with girls, and start dating around. This infuriates Jill. Jill, as fate would have it, becomes jealous a tiny bit, and even outright when alcohol is involved. Jill actually punches my back while i'm kissing a girl in a club (because Jill, I, and our group of friends hang out regularly). So, I ask Jill what the hell is her deal. She doesn't want to be with me, but will get angry when I date around. So Jill and I start doing hooking up, but only when she's intoxicated or whatever. It gets really too complex to explain, but the outcome results in us having to address it in conversation. Jill and I agree that this isn't the way to handle this situation, and we stop hooking up. We also agree not to get in each others' ways because that's only going to hurt the other. So, Jill and I are back to being best friends (somewhat). There's a weird aura around some conversations that wasn't there like in the old days of our friendship.

In the meantime, Jill gets 2 boyfriends (short, quick ones). I get jealous, but because of our conversation to not bother each other while we're dating, I grit my teeth and accept it. Each relationship gets progressively easier. I start to handle these situations, and even get a girlfriend for myself! Now, unfortunately, this girlfriend of mine is not what I'm looking for but we seem to have alot of fun otherwise, and I feel that this is a way to ease myself out of my situation with Jill. (I know, I'm dating a girl I'm not into incredibly because I'm trying to ease my own mind with my past history with Jill. It's selfish, sick, and wrong. I know. I'm human, loveforum. And i don't like myself at all for it. Bear with me a bit longer)

Remember Jack, my old best friend of 17 years? He returns from FL State and finishes his degree (as do i and as does Jill). College is over and we're beginning our lives.

Jack, Jill, Rocky, Ronnie, I, and various other friends all hang out regularly on weekends for months. I notice Jill is somewhat distant from me. Then, as time passes, Jill becomes uncomfortably distant from me. I wonder why she ignores me in group talks and fun events? I wonder why she's so distant in general from me.

Now, I'm hanging Jack, Jill, and Rocky one night. We're all pretty much good friends. It's a strong, awesome network. We all go out for drinks. As we all start drinking a bit more, everyone is getting drunk. Jack and Jill, disappear, for 1.5 hours. No sign of them at the bar we're at. Rocky and I are left alone. Imagine my feelings, loveforum. I love Jill. I still do. I can handle her with any other guy it seems at this point. But that night, I lose it. I leave Rocky at the bar, and I walk around uptown for hours. I cry. I cry some more. It hurts so effing much. And I don't know why. I wonder why my emotions are toyed with so badly. So effing badly. It just never seems to heal. and when it does, it gets reopened.

I come back to find Jill completely incapacitated and Jack taking care of her. I bs all of them, saying that I saw someone that I knew and walked with them. Obviously no one bought it but i had to say something.

I hang out with Jill about 3 weeks later and just bs with her over a coffee. I ask her what she's doing that night and if she wanted to hang out. Jill, painfully tells me, that she seeing Jack that night. That wasn't the issue. THEY'VE BEEN SEEING EACH OTHER, for a while now. Neither Jack nor Jill could bring themselves to tell me, because both knew of my feelings, and didn't know how to break it to me. Me, being the questioning type of person, had to find out by asking her. She was tired of lying. So she let me know. That's why she was being distant from me. She explained to me that we weren't friends "like that" anymore. Things have changed, and people change she told me.

I was hurt, but I didn't know how to act. I have a girlfriend now, I'm sort of, kind of, in a weird way happy for her and Jack, but I can't put my finger on what hurts. It doesn't hurt like a year ago (where I probably would have curled up in a ball and cried and quit my job), but it still hurts and for some reason I get pangs of hurt again. And this time, they come and go, but they hurt alot emotionally. It's so effing weird. Jack and Jill spoke and Jill told Jack that she told me about them dating, so Jack came clean and we talked about it. I told him that it wasn't my choice whether they could date or not. and it's not my right to DENY them dating. Jack was happy that I understood and that we could still be friends.

So here I am, love forum. I'm stuck. I have girlfriend that isn't solving my problem with Jack and Jill. Jack, my friend who never really lied to me, couldn't talk about this topic openly. Jill, is still distant as ever, and will continue to be. I have lost my best friend, Jill, over my feelings for her. Jack is still my best friend and we actually intend to go to medical school together. Rocky and Ronnie are best friends with Jill, and it just seems like I'm out of the picture of it all.

I f***ing introduced Rocky, Ronnie, Jill, and Jack altogether. They, 4 separate people, didn't know each other without me. They didn't. Now, they're great friends with one another. I feel like I've been removed from them. Jack and Jill will obviously continue being secretive about what they're doing and obviously not tell things to me to spare me anguish. Rocky and Ronnie text Jill to hang out, and it's like they're absolute best friends and I'm nowhere to be found or asked to hang out anymore.

I have friends, but it's weird. It's like someone knows stuff and aren't going to tell me to "spare" me feelings and bad painful things. Everytime i hang out with Ronnie, Rocky, or Jack, JILL is always around. I can't get away from this girl. Normally, people who break up with girls don't talk to them and avoid them. Time heals that. They have friends they can all talk to, but all my friends are Jill's friends and seem to talk to her more than they talk to me. I'm alone, loveforum. I'm alone. Not to make it sound stupid or childish, but Jill seems to have taken all my friends away from me, then distanced herself from me and that's it. I feel hopeless and deserted. Did i do something wrong? Do i really deserve to have everything taken from me? Wha'ts next? My family's going to side with her or something? Now i'm just talking angrily, but I don't know what or how to feel. I'm wrong if I still like her, fine. We agreed to end it. Now I can't be friends with her? Fine, no one should be forced to be friends with someone they don't like. NOW MY FRIENDS HANG OUT WITH HER MORE THAN ME? I just don't understand if i should be angry or what.

So that's my story. I'm thinking about going to medical school outside the country just to get away from this all. I want to skip the next 4 years of my life from this. It hurts too much. I know you all don't know me personally and of course I have my days, but I'm really a nice guy. I try to help instead of cause problems. That's why I introduced Jill to Jack. Instead of, "if i can't have her, no one can" theory, I did, "if i can't have her, then maybe someone I love and trust the same should have this awesome girl." My repayment is distance? My repayment is the general loss of attention from my friends?

1. What should I do? Should I tell BOTH Jack and Jill how I feel about them dating? It will make our overall hangout sessions much more awkward and they probably won't want to hang out with me period...

2. I can see Jack is acting differently now. He gets shady on weekends. Should I just talk to Jack about this, since he's my best friend of 17 years and maybe will understand? Remember, we're supposed to go to med school together and I'd never want to jeopardize that kind of thing.

3. Should I just talk to Ronnie or Rocky about it? I might find out more info that I don't want to know about them.

4. Should I just try to find another girl to earnestly fall in love with? I'm setting myself up badly because when I go to med school, I'll just want her with me :( (plus you don't just FIND someone who you love that easily...I've tried. and gotten hurt miserably)

Loveforum, I have never felt this hurt before. I want to cry, but i have no reason to cry really. Everyone seems to be happy. But then why am i feeling like I need something?

Guys...girls....whoever can add input to this, I seriously appreciate it. If you have had a similar situation and found a solution, even if it only solves part of the situation, it's fine. I need psychological help :'(

Wow..I actually made it to the end of your post :)

I think you first of all need to break up with your current girlfriend..it is not fair to her. You know that. As long as you feel pain for someone else, another person doesn't deserve to be used as a band aid. It's really unfortunate that your friendships have been damaged by all this, but in order for you to really heal and commit to someone else eventually, I think you should be honest with Jack and Jill about your feelings. But not to try to influence them to stop dating or change their minds, because really it is irrelevant..the damage has been done already. It should be to say that you still have feelings for Jill and you can't be ok with being friends with her right now and you need to distance yourself.Easier said than done I know :(

^^^ Yes, agree.
On top of that good advice you might want to keep in mind that she has had opportunities to be your gal and has chosen not to be more than once. What is the point of hanging onto all these romantic feelings for someone that does not reciporcate them. Stop being her emotional catch all who she runs to when she needs reassuring and ego boosting. The more you do for her the more you attach yourself because she validates you when she makes you feel you're her hero (after she feels better unloading all her crap on you). She inadvertantly boosts you and your ego and self-worth when you "save" her from herself.

Stay away from them both for awhile and quit being hurt just because you were the one that introduced everyone to everyone else. Your feelings that you're being somehow betrayed are mis-placed and ego driven.

Enough self-imposed drama. It is what it is. Why waste all the energy into negativity? Keeeerist your post alone is full of filler drama.

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(plus you don't just FIND someone who you love that easily...

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The key is to find someone who loves you back as much as you love them. You've wasted a lot of time on a girl that uses you as her cuddle bunny/emotional tapon and does not return your romantic thoughts and feelings. The reason you've not found someone who you love is because you're not open to it while you pine away for someown who doesn't want you. Let her go, accept that she is not going to love you and then you'll finally be open enough to be loved and loving to someone who deserves your efforts and feelings. This girl certainly does not.

You are thinking about this wrong: the fact you can love someone the way you have Jill means you will be able to find another girl and love her just as much. IF you give this new girl a chance, which you aren't at present.

This story is really a testament to *your* ability to love, its not really about Jill. That's where your thinking is wrong. You could have this experience any girl with similar qualities. You have put Jill on a pedestal and its just not fair to all the other awesome girls out there. Every lover thinks his/her partner is 'the one'. Fact is, there are many 'ones' out there. You just have to give them a chance. Its a numbers game, completely.

Change your thinking man. You are stuck in the past. Time to look ahead. Sometimes the object of your love isn't available, for any number of reasons. So you find someone who is. That's all. Good luck.

A reality check is required. You will not have the relationship with Jill that you always wanted....that dream is over. She acted out of jealousy because she is possessive of a friend and not in love with you. Second, drop the idea of pulling everyone one in to help you, you need to get over this on your own.

This GF of yours is just a rebound, a pawn to maybe help you get over you emotional mess. You better rethink this relationship to make sure you are being fair to her....

To add, I think you are not ready to be involved with someone......you seriously need to shake all this crap out of your system before you are ready to move on.

Dude, my great gran used to say never introduce your friends to each other. I used to wonder how you were supposed to have parties if you couldn't introduce your friends. Now, at 31 years old, after having my 12 year "best" friendship blow up in my face, I finally understand what she meant.

Focus on finding new friends. Break up with your band aid, she deserves better.

thank you all for replying and taking the time to read this. just had to let some third parties see my situation.

@Kealy - I know it's not fair to my current gf. Thankfully, we haven't had sex ever because she's learned on her own that that should take time. I think she feels i'm not completely into her and she doesn't want to have sex until i'm sure (which obviously i'm not.) I doubt talking to Jack and Jill about my feelings will do anything. They won't stop dating, because they're both exes and still have feelings for one another, and i'll only complicate things because they'll "feel" like they have to act differently whenever we're all out together as a group of friends. I thought about it a little more after the post. I've been healing since that terrible depressive year, it's just such a weird feeling that I can't describe now. I get an urge to be angry or feel cheated, but my brain can't figure out out of what, you know.

And I have been distancing myself from Jill, it's just that Jack and I are both so close, that we lift together every week. We're going to study for MCATs together. We're even applying to the same med school together at the same time. But I don't feel hurt by Jack really because I understand his position. He realizes the complication as well, and he's trying to spare me any thing unless I ask (which i don't).

@Wakeup - second half of Kealy's reply ^ for my situation with distancing. You're right about the self-validation. It's so true. Now, I feel no real inclination to hang out with her alone or listen to her problems or anything, which is a step in the right direction. As far as opening up to love and be loved, I need to work on that. Getting over her once and for all will be the final hump i need to get over. The maximum distance I can get from her is only seeing her like once every 2 weeks on average. That should be enough if i play my cards right. Jack is supportive, in an almost unspoken manner, to my plight. Because we've grown up together, he can see what I like and don't like and can really feel my energy. So despite us not talking about it really, he's great with avoiding topics unless I get myself into them.

@IndiReloaded - You're seriously right about that and that gave me an awesome new perspective on it. You're right that I can love someone like I did Jill because I DID love Jill that much. To simplify this, it really is a "getting over a first love" kind of thing. It's just so long and drawn out because friends and best friends are involved. And i do seem to patronize myself, man. you're right. the past is the past. i just need to go forward. thank you.

@smackie9 - I know :( I'm seriously that jerk right now with respect to my current gf. Thankfully, no sex is involved, and I don't think I'm going to. I have stuff to fix in my own head; no need to hurt someone else in all of this. and you're right that i still have baggage i'm carrying. it's just that i knew if i found someone else that i was TRULY into like Jill (just not Jill), I know i will be cured. I worked on doing it myself for a year and i managed to reach a point where i don't curl up in a ball while i'm brushing my teeth (happened). I just figure the last step will be to either get a gf i'm truly into so i can appreciate the beauty of truly being in a reciprocating relationship OR completely move away (which i have the opportunity to do with medical school on the horizon). I should have really broke it off with my current gf weeks into it. Now i'm 2+ months deep (which isn't really too bad. plus we haven't had sex. I think she may sense that there's something not clicking between us).

@maidenminx - I'm sorry to hear about your 12 year best friend relationship going down like that. i sort of realize that now, but it's weird. i still wonder how you can have parties together? it makes it so hard. i guess stagger your hangout sessions. and my current gf is pretty much acting like a bandaid, you're right. read smackie9's reply with respect to my current gf.

TO ALL : Yeah, there's stuff i need to correct in my head, i know that. I've made lots of progress, but i have a long way to go. distancing myself from Jill is a pretty hard thing to do because of my network of friends. But, it's a work in progress. I see her less and less, as she gets more and more involved with Jack. I text her less and completely not at all for days. When we do text, it seems like we're old buddies because she realizes my feelings and situation and seems to want to kind of rectify what's going on with Jack almost. (After that harsh revelation that she was with Jack, we hung out 2 days later with Ronnie. I can tell. she doesn't really call me for a "Ronnie, Jill, and me" session, but it was almost like a test to gauge how i was coping with it. She was really benevolent that night. I can just tell it was a testing kind of thing).

Time heals all i suppose. Friendships, romantic breakups, everything. I just gotta wait it out and open myself up a bit more.

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Originally Posted by latinking101 [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Time heals all i suppose. Friendships, romantic breakups, everything.

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It really does. Sounds like a platitude until you've been through the fire, but those who have been there know. You'll be fine, count on it. :-)

Thank you all for your input. Just an update on my progress or lack thereof. Idk. I'm dealing with pretty much focusing on me and only me. Jack hasn't lifted with me in a week (we're lifting buddies). Partially because school. Partially because he's out with Jill alot now. Not that I lost my best buddy or anything, just now he's always around with her. Guess it's something I've got to get used to. I hung out with Ronnie and Jill last weekend. Jill and I interacted normally. She spoke to Ronnie alot of the time. Only part that made me a little sad is she started talking about stuff with him in the same manner, depth, and whatever as she would normally have done with me. Actually it made me pretty sad. I acted normal, just was a little heartbroken. She texted me throughout the week to make small talk, said she missed getting drunk with me like old times. I acknowledged it and that's about it. I'm definitely mentally a little more sound by seeing her less, i just get pangs when Jack and I are supposed to hang or lift, and he just tells me he's got to go wherever. I know he's with her. I'm not taking it personally. Guess my situation just sucks in general. Time heals as IndiReloaded says. Just hope it's somewhat soon. Miss being my old self - carefree and always looking to have a good time

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Originally Posted by IndiReloaded [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

You are thinking about this wrong: the fact you can love someone the way you have Jill means you will be able to find another girl and love her just as much. IF you give this new girl a chance, which you aren't at present.

This story is really a testament to *your* ability to love, its not really about Jill. That's where your thinking is wrong. You could have this experience any girl with similar qualities. You have put Jill on a pedestal and its just not fair to all the other awesome girls out there. Every lover thinks his/her partner is 'the one'. Fact is, there are many 'ones' out there. You just have to give them a chance. Its a numbers game, completely.

Change your thinking man. You are stuck in the past. Time to look ahead. Sometimes the object of your love isn't available, for any number of reasons. So you find someone who is. That's all. Good luck.

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This.

You are in love with someone that doesn't return your love - time to move on. The fact that you are capable is a testament.

Trust me man, she's out there. The trick is, don't be entangled when she shows up. Don't give up, don't settle for Mrs. Right Now when Mrs. Right is out there waiting. Expand your horizons, get out and do the things you like or are interested in doing - I'd lay money on the fact that the one you're looking for, you will meet while doing those things.