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Ok, I've heard that guys are simple and straightforward so they would openly pursue girls they like. But is this really true?
What if he's showing signs of interest like staring at you, spending time to listen to you,etc but is not openly pursuing you? Does that mean he's just not that interested or is he trying to play it cool so she won't lose interest?
Some guys are shy. Some guys are afraid of rejection.
People don't value things as much if they get it easy. So, if the girl refuses to ask him out, what would guys usually do? Do they give it up or do they break (and ask her out)? Would the option he choose reflect how much he likes her?
Some guys are very shy and very afraid of rejection and so if they don't know for sure that the girl likes them, they won't ask the girl out.Quote:
Originally Posted by lastwish [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
some guys are also "intimidated" by the way a woman looks. (In a good way, sort of) Honestly my point of view, guys aren't straight forward, you have to literally beat them with a walking stick to get them to say what they have to say, unless your just another guy, I guess like Cain said, hes shy or nervous, maybe and I know as hard as it may be ask him how he feels, but question is,do you even want to go in that direction with him??
Generally, men do say what is on their mind. I don't know what men you're running into.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trista22 [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
obviously not you lol. But from experience I've noticed this, usually its a whole story.
Sometimes..Quote:
Originally Posted by lastwish [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
Not interested in you? No.. doesn't mean that at all..Quote:
Originally Posted by lastwish [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
The two statements are incompatible.. Assuming you're honest and open about your interest in him.., if he's not openly pursuing you.., that means he's inexperienced and doesn't have the know-how or understanding to even gauge your interest in him.., much less try and prevent you from losing interest.. If he is openly pursuing you.., then he's not playing it cool.., which means he's confident enough to be open and honest about his interest in you and understand how to go about it in such a way that you don't lose interest in him..
Really? Give me title of a brand new Ferrari.., and I'll show you how much I'll value it..Quote:
Originally Posted by lastwish [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
People also don't try and acquire things as much if they're difficult to get..
There's a reason that everyone who is "able" to be a doctor or lawyer.., "isn't" one..
You're not an object.., you're a person.. Your value depends on the relationship that's established.., not the costs behind your acquisition..
Guys? Are you really trying to put all males into one jumbo catch all category?Quote:
Originally Posted by lastwish [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
I would first ask myself.., if I was a woman.., what kind of guy am I talking about?
Is he egotistical? You can expect him to keep pushing and not take "no" for an answer..
Is he shy? You can expect him to sit there quietly as he tries to munster up the courage to do something while secretly waiting for you to initiate instead..
Is he confident? Maybe it's not news to him on how great-looking he is.., maybe he knows something you don't know about what's in his pants.., maybe he's very successful and has considerable income or wealth.., maybe he's not exactly new to the dating scene.., maybe he has a vast social network and is quite popular and well-known.. (this won't really affect if he will initiate or not.., all it will do is work against your favor if he comes to believe or think that you are not that interested in him.., he can afford to move on to someone else.., regardless of how much he may be interested in you)
Is he not confident? Maybe he hasn't been validated on his looks.., or maybe he's been the victim of a dominating father figure that's caused him to be submissive while growing up.., or maybe he was overshadowed by the popular behemoth jocks in school.., maybe he feels insecure about how he looks with his shirt off.., or with his pants down.., or perhaps he simply lacks the experience with dating and people.. (people who are not confident have the incentive to push themselves to initiate.., even when they feel uncomfortable doing so.. this may work in your favor if he's unsure of your interest in him.. If he's not confident in himself at all.., and doesn't feel that you're interested (not "disinterested".., just not sure if you're interested).., he'll cut his losses.., protect himself emotionally.., and move on.. If he's sort of at the middle of the road.., he'll ponder about it.., try and figure it out.., and will keep trying.. Because he's not confident in himself.., you represent to him one of the few chances he has in dating someone.., he could be gorgeous and rich out of his mind.., but if he lacks confidence in himself.., he will chase and stick with whatever comes his way.. A little sign of interest could go a long way with these guys)
Look.., you obviously want to feel desired and wanted.. You want to get a good feel of his interest in you before you invest emotionally at all.. You want the safe position.. and that's understandable.. but it all depends on what guy you're talking about.., not what you're doing..Quote:
Originally Posted by lastwish [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
low self esteem --> not likely to "initiate"
egotistical or normal self esteem --> likely to "initiate"
confident --> not likely to push if you don't admit interest (especially if he's experienced.., not admitting interest is your death wish.., because he can tell.., and if he can tell and you're still pretending.., you earn dishonesty points the more you go down that road.., take your time.., but be honest with this one.., honesty and openness will get him to ask you out.., word of warning.. just because he's confident doesn't always mean he's not desperate! He may just be looking for sex.., in which case.., even though he sees you're not openly expressing your interest.., he doesn't really care.., it's not a matter of honesty and respect at that point.., it's a matter of sex.. and he's willing to overlook that trifling matter and ask you out anyway.. So if you can tell he's confident.., ask about his last relationship.., if it was more than 6 months ago.., be weary)
not confident --> will stop pushing if he gets zero or little interest signs from you.., will continue pushing and trying if he gets mixed signals.. (usually lacks experience.., can't be certain of interest or get "hints" or "signs".., it's tricky because you can string him along the whole night.., but if he doesn't get a clear sign of interest.., he simply lacks the ability to read you and feel comfortable enough to ask you out.. This is usually where women have to resort to the "why don't you take my number and.." or "here's my card.." he may ask you out on his own.., but it will most likely be in an awkward or obvious way.., resist the lingering thought of "oh gosh.., I can't say yes to that".., and just go along with it.., believe me.., that was a huge leap for him)
No.. His "interest" in you shows up in the underlying meaning of the conversation the two of you are having.. If he really wants to get to know you.., and I mean REALLY get to know "you".., the real you.. not where you live or what you do.., but how you think.., how you feel.., the inner workings of your mind.. and he keeps digging the more he finds out.. That reflects how much he likes you.. That's the best and most honest reflection of how much he likes you..Quote:
Originally Posted by lastwish [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
(news flash: men lack creativity.., in general.., and it requires an enormous amount of mental effort for him to pose questions or dig too deep into who you are.. most guys can't even do it by e-mail or over the internet.., they can't even spend hours at home trying to think of some way to get to know you better.., do you really think he's going to magically have a moment of epiphany and mental clarity when he's face-to-face with you? Not likely.. The only way he would be investigating your inner being on such a personal level is if he goes on auto-pilot.. If it's instinct guiding him.., if he's no longer thinking and is just genuinely curious and interested in who you really are.., and he'll continue digging if he likes what he discovers)
The option he chooses doesn't reflect his interest in you..
Is the smooth-talker really interested in you.., or has he just had enough practice with 40 other women just like you?
Is the inexperienced guy not interested in you.., or is he completely clueless and not able to determine your interest in him?
Good insight Grkscorp! But the thing is...I don't want to fall into the pattern of always initiating. Its tiring and also I keep thinking in the back of my mind that perhaps he's not that interested. I'm fine with making the first move but I don't want to let that fall into a pattern. Is there any ways that I can make him initiate more?
I know EXACTLY what you mean..Quote:
Originally Posted by lastwish [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
It's one thing to make the first move.., but to fall into the routine of constantly initiating takes the magic out of it and kills the mood..
My friend Maria met a guy like the one you're talking about a while ago.. I was a little harder on her.., but it was because she could really take my advice in its rawest of forms..
So I'll skip the part about wanting to feel appreciated.., desired.., wanted.., and how when the man initiates it makes you feel sexy and that he loves you.., it makes you feel like a woman.., how he just can't resist you.. how much he cares about you.. etc.. blah blah blah.. (skip)
This is what I basically suggested to her.. and it worked..
Get a copy of the movie "Notting Hill" :surprised
I realize the idea sounds odd.., and maybe you might be thinking.. "he'd never watch something like that".. but just entertain the suggestion for a second..
In the movie.., the plot is supposedly of a major actress who meets just an ordinary guy and how their lives change..
The subplot of the movie and the metaphors are more interesting.. In the movie.., (which is meant to appeal to women as its target audience.., in case this is your first romantic comedy).. is that Julia Roberts is this big movie star.., she's very important and successful.., has it all.., and finds this average guy who she falls in love with.. But he's completely clueless and at first it seems he has nothing to offer her.. "this of course appeals to the whole independent and powerful fantasy".. anyway..
- She has to make the first move when she meets him in the bookstore
- She accepts to come into his house and gives him ample opportunities to initiate something and make his own move which he misses and is completely oblivious to
- She comes back because she supposedly forgot her bag and then initiates the first kiss
- She doesn't really ask.., but sort of aggressively insists that he come upstairs to her place
- And a bunch of other subtleties in the movie..
*note: there's also the metaphor of her career's reputation and the guy's reputation in sharp contrast to each other.. When he opens up the door and the press sees him and then her in their underwear.., he can't understand why it's such a bad thing.., and she is rather upset about it and explains why it's so serious.. (the metaphor of course being that the sexual habits and reputation of men are not as important as they are to women.., and that a woman's reputation really matters.., and that men don't seem to understand that)
So.., this is what she did..
She sat her guy down.., and watched the movie with him.. and at those key parts of the movie.. she kept laughing and saying out loud.. "haha! what a jerk!"
So her boyfriend kept thinking and then eventually asking.. "why is he such a jerk? I don't get it".. that's when she paused and explained to him what was going on "in the movie" (get it?) ;)
Maria took moments through the film to poke fun at Hugh Grant and what he was doing.., and then explained to her boyfriend why they were funny.., and why his character was being a "jerk".. by being totally clueless to opportunities and not initiating..
The psychology behind this is that if you sit your man down to have the very same conversation.. the frame of that conversation will be YOU attacking HIM.. That's not a very good frame.., not going to be a very productive chat..
But if you have a medium for those same messages to get through.., say a movie.., then the frame of that communication is the two of you watching a funny & romantic movie.., while you poke fun at male behavior that you find funny.., funny because it's wrong on some level..
We all interpret information as it relates to ourselves..
Do you want an example of this?
"Men are not very emotionally intelligent and that accounts for their lack of sensitivity to other people's feelings.. Women on the other hand who are more emotionally intelligent will look at emotions and feelings as a way to control and manipulate others.. Therefore we may never really know which is the more sensitive of the two sexes"
Be honest.., doesn't that statement rub you the wrong way a bit? It doesn't say "lastwish" is a manipulative b*tch.., it just says "women".., but the way you read it.., and then understand it.., is.. "I am a woman.., therefore..".. case and point..
So when the two of you are done watching the movie.., he'll take plenty of valuable lessons away from that film.. He'll have a moment of self-reflection that day.., and you won't even need to utter an other word to him.. He'll start to realize what a "jerk" he's been all this time.., and he'll want to make it up to you..
*yet an other note: your time to shine is during the film.. you can be sure you're not ruining the movie for him.., because he really doesn't give a sh*t about what's going on.., he's just watching it because you're watching it.. "Hugh Grant movies are mosquito repellent for men".. So don't be afraid to squeeze in "he's not initiating.., he's just waiting for her or is totally clueless.., he didn't even kiss her.., I bet the sex they just had was boring.., etc".. don't say something stupid like "YOU never initiate.., blah blah blah".. They key here is Hugh Grant.., you're talking about HIM.., and his character.., NOT about your boyfriend! (Get it?)
After the movie.., (not immediately after).., but in the days/weeks that follow.., so that he's had a chance to reflect on his lesson of the day.., start to go through TV shows or other movies that show slightly more aggressive male behavior..
He's seen the "bad" and "negative" examples.., he understands what is wrong.., he has that model in his head now.., but you still need to show him the flip side of that.., "good" and "positive" examples.., so that he knows what is right.. (actually.. so that he can determine what is "acceptable")
You know how women have a slut/whore complex? Some men have a sleazy/pervert complex.. Yes.., it's equally as retarded.. The standards to qualify are horribly low.., just as some women feel "kissing" makes them a whore.., some men feel initiating is being too sexually aggressive.., or commenting on how great your tits look or how your ass feels is perverted.., they think you don't want to hear those things.., that it's wrong to do those things.. It's what holds them back in a way..
So what you're really communicating to him is that "it's ok".., in fact.. "it's more than ok" to display that kind of male behavior.. When you're looking at actors in movies when they initiate and create sexual tension.., say out loud.. "wow.., that's so hot" or "that's so sexy".. NOT "he's so hot/sexy".. The focus is on the action.., not the actor..
After a certain point.., suggest watching some porn together.. He'll be uncomfortable with the idea.., which is why you'll feel like you just have to sit his ass down and turn it on yourself.. But don't do that.. It will intimidate him.., and in his mind.., he'll form the idea of you being the sexually dominant leader.., which would make him the submissive follower.. That will be the death wish to whatever you intend to accomplish with him..
So when you sit down and watch some porn together.., don't be aggressive about it.. It's not a one day or one week thing.., it will take some time.. It's a HUGE limiting belief some men have.., and you're attempting to shatter it! The belief that women are these delicate heavenly creatures of pure goodness.., that never poop.., fart once a year and it smells like roses.., are not interested in sex.., and when they are.., it has to be sweet/tender/delicate/romantic/blah blah blah.. So when you're there.., together.., watching porn.., and telling him how you think the actor's thrusting motion and power is so sexy.., how he's so aggressive and rough and masculine.., grabbing her.., holding her.., controlling her like his little sex toy.., just pounding away.. That whole belief system in his head.., it starts to dissipate and shatter completely.. He can no longer convince or tell himself that what he believed was true is reality.. He will have to admit that his old meta-model was wrong (for as long as you're not aggressive or attacking him.., that will be easy).., and will then quickly learn which meta-model is right..
Some guys just don't know how to pursue a girl. This is part of intimidation mentioned before, I guess.