Hurt her feelings

Well, to make a long story short, I messed up a nice conversation thanks to me listening to that little voice of doubt in my head. 2 days ago, Betty found out that her next 2 months supply of pills is missing. She has no idea where they went. She's supposed to start a new supply on Wednesday so she was upset and concerned about how to get a replacement. I looked on the net and found a planned parenthood near her and told them of her situation and that she's not American. They said all she has to do was come in, answer some questions and she'd be good to go. A woman from the camp will take Betty today or tomorrow. I talked to Betty last night and told her what I found out and she was so thankful and glad I did the legwork and helped her out this way.

So on to the bad part. We were having a totally fine conversation and something in me decided to ask about her ex. I asked her why when he has called her recently, that she doesn't just hang up. She told me that she can't be mean like that to him unless he harasses her or attacks her verbally over the phone. She didn't get smart or anything but sounded concerned and said "Why do you feel this way? I know you know my heart and that he is not a part of it anymore. You don't have to feel scared that I will do something. I will never go back to him." I explained to her about my past experiences and that I DON'T look at her like she's the same as my ex's, it's just that I can't stand someone like him being in the background still. That he won't just let her live her life and walk away." She sounded very distraught and told me how it hurts her to feel that I don't believe her and that she's told me everything and won't keep secrets and that she doesn't know what else to tell me to make me believe but that she'll try anything to prove to me how she feels about me.
I felt really bad and tried to say that I know she doesn't deserve to be judged like this from me because she hasn't done anything wrong. She said that another girl was asking her for the phone, (I did hear the girl asking Betty to get off) and that we had talked over the 15 minute mark, (55 minutes actually!) and that she would call back before bedtime. She said "I am almost about to cry. I promise we will talk later, please let me go for now." so I did.

I sat up for awhile and midnight came and I figured she was upset and wouldn't call me again tonight. I got ready for bed and tried to sleep but I couldn't. About 12:15 my phone rang and it was her. She said "I didn't want us to finish the night this way. I cannot sleep feeling like this." and I told her the same thing. I said "Betty, i'm sorry I said those things to you. I do believe you, it just is hard for me knowing that he's still in the background. Every realtionship i've been in has been hampered by someone in the back wearing down the person I was with until they went back with them. I don't want that to happen and I DO trust you and believe you, it's just eats away at me because I KNOW that he's there." She said "When I hung up with you, I was so upset and angry and I didn't know what to say because I felt so hurt that you don't trust me and after the weekend we spent together. I know you looked into my eyes and I tried to show you everything inside of me. I do understand why you feel this way and I will do everything I can to show to you that I will never hurt you and that you can believe in me, even if it takes time."

I said "You don't need to show me, I can already see it in you. Betty, i'm sorry i said those things to you. I know this is different than my past and I can't judge you for something you haven't done wrong yet. It's like i'm already talking to you like you've hurt me and you haven't. I didn't have the right to say those things to you because you HAVEN'T done anything wrong. You've been nothing but kind, and caring, and loving to me and this is how I say 'thanks' back to you. I'm sorry for making you feel that I don't believe you because that's never been a question. I always have."

We talked a little bit more and she seemed ok but sad for me because of what i've been through and that she mentioned that it's like a voice in my head that says "always beware, always beware." and I said "It's like that yes, but I DON'T want to listen to that voice. I'm trying to make it disappear and I hurt you with my doubts. I don't worry that you will go back to him, I worry that he will try to hurt us in some way or hurt you by keeping contact."
she told me that she will always continue to tell me if he calls her, and that he hasn't called since last week and told her then "I think I understand how you feel. I don't know if i'll call you again. I'm going to travel for awhile because I don't want to live in Hungary anymore. I don't want to interfere in your life with him. " So I don't know what that means. If he's just bullsh*tting, or he really will leave her alone.

She told me "Please sleep well tonight. Promise me that you won't worry about this fight we had tonight. Everything is ok and well now. I know that if you didn't care so much about me, you would have kept this to yourself. There will be times that we have arguments and as long as we can talk about them and learn from them, we will be ok. I feel that it is good that we are able to talk about these things and I understand you better."

I told her "Before I go, I have to say one more time. Betty, I do believe you. I know you have not kept anything from me about him and that I do feel where your heart is. I do not doubt that. I believe in myself and I hope that you still believe that I believe you." She said "Ok, I do. I do." and we said our goodnights.

I just don't know why I had to bring that up to her. Yes, I feel very wary in my mind that he still has communicated with her. It'd be different if it was a mutual breakup or she refused to talk with him. She does not return his txt messages since last week she says, but she says that she cannot just say "Never call me again, leave me alone!". She says she has to be fair to him and does not want to treat him like he's a monster and just hang up on him and such. I told her at one point, "Don't you see that the more you talk with him, the more you plant in his mind that he still has a chance with you?" She said "I don't feel that that is true. He said that he doesn't want to be with me now that he knows I love you, and I know I could never be with him. I can't even think of kissing him again after I kissed you and after everything we shared together this weekend and when we were alone together.

It's just, why is it that the more I feel for someone, the more something interferes? Why can't 8,000 miles be enough? Why does there have to be an ex who can interefere? People tell me to just follow my heart and be myself, but how can I completly do that when this is starting to imitate my past? I know it can be completly different, but the aspects that are similar make me very afraid. I know that if I keep these doubts and drive Betty away, i'll never forgive myself for living in my fear. But if I act like me and ignore my doubts and they stab me in the back, i'll never forgive myself for being ignorant to my concerns. I don't know how to manage this. It's like I can win and lose, or live and die. :sad2:

On a positive note, this morning I ordered a potted tiger lily to be delivered to her with a note saying "I love you, I believe in you. Each day is a new beginning. Love always, Zac."
She should get it later today. I figured it would be a nice gesture that I am hoping for the best and that I wanted her to have a little reminder of what she thought was so special together when we were at the botanical gardens with all the flowers.

I'm just kinda down at that I KNOW it will be hard doing the distance thing, but that there has to be one more thorn twisting in my side with the unknown intentions of her ex. I know I cannot tell her to refuse his calls. She is not my prisoner, she is not my property. She has to make that choice. I just hope that she will for her and not me.

I am absolutely positive that nothing I can say from all the way down in Florida is going to make this any better for you. I only hope that you can take comfort in the fact that while she is too kind to treat her ex the way he DESERVES to be treated - - you are the man she adores.

I suspect before long her ex will grow weary of the game and move on, elimnating the problem for everyone. Betty is probably not much fun for him if she is not playing into his games and being her victim.

Another Floridian Bono-hang in there. From the sounds of things Betty has her head straight and wants to be with YOU. Sometimes an X is just a pain in the ass...but she's a kind hearted person and doesnt have the mean bone to tell him to F*ck off. But in time I bet she will cut the contact, and or he will too. When he realizes shes in love with someone else and its NOT him-he'll take off.

You have the right to feel insecure in this situation-youve been dealt this crap before and to admit and to know those feelings is important. It sounds like she understands that now-but keep in my mind she's not every other woman you dated. You HAVE to treat this and her as something all NEW. Learn from your mistakes-but go with this one Bono-shes sounding pretty damn healthy to me! Not too many of those left!

By the way-the tiger lilly you sent her will have her in tears of joy! Good job!!!

Thanks guys. I hope that it works out that way for us. I think if I have faith and trust and keep being myself, then everything will work itself out to just being something good for a change. I sometimes think about our future (probably moreso when she talks about it first) and i'm not really worried about the long distance. I think that my new career and her school, will keep us busy enough to survive being apart for so long. Like, if we were just sitting around the house pining over not being together, that would be so much worse. But if i'm training/learning the rookie ropes, and she's knee deep in tests, (they're curriculum is MUCH more difficult than American standards) then we should be preoccupied enough to have a life, and still have time to think of each other without it ruling our lives.

I left my phone at my apartment today, but when I went back to go get it I had a voicemail from her. I think it was good that I forgot it because I know I would've interrupted what she really wanted to say by saying something. She called and was like "Hi, it's me. I don't know how to express in words how I feel. I am so happy. I was out and when I came back the girls were like "You got something from Zac." and it was in the cabin. I went in and found the flower and it is so beautiful. I know it is just a flower but it means more to me than the world right now. Thank you so much, I love you so very very much. I was so surprised and this means so much to me. Thank you thank you, thank you Zac. I love you. Bye."

She sounded like she was holding back some tears with the way she was breathing so I felt good. I feel like what I gave her isn't anywhere close in making up the way I made her feel, but it's something to let her know I haven't forgotten.

See there!!! You DID have her in tears...way to go!(i know that wasnt the intention) SHE knows a good thing when shes got it Bono and you do too! Of course theres going to be things that pop up now and then but youre learning about eachother and its good!

Ya know you didnt have the intention of making her feel bad but sometimes SOME women just misunderstand. It's ok its bound to happen. But dont be afraid of letting her know how you feel about it! Sounds like you two can get through anything that crosses your paths!

Well, we haven't crossed that much yet, but it feels as though we've been through so much. Just the rush of everything happening so fast. I hate how some of my friends are happy and joke about that i'll end up going to vegas with her to get hitched. (I'd never settle for something like that, but I get the drift) and other friends give me crap about me acting too serious about her, and that I should think about dating other people to see how I really feel about her. To make sure that she IS the one I feel good about and not that i'm MAKING her the one I feel good about/want to be with.

I'm really just being me with all this and I know it's all happening fast, but I haven't proposed or anything like that so what's wrong with me feeling serious about her? I'm not the kind of guy who wants to date multiple women let alone, would enjoy it. If I feel great about being with one person, what's wrong with being serious, even though it's only been like a month? I'm not doing anything she hasn't already expressed or instigated interest in. (in terms of serious conversation/ideas/thoughts) I know there's times I tell her that "it's ok, let's just take things one step at a time." She says sometimes she doesn't know why she feels that it's ok to have moved so quickly with me but that she doesn't feel that it's wrong at all.

HEll No dont you listen to your friends Bono-uh no way not in this case. Every man is different in what they want to do in dating terms. I give you a ton of credit for not feeling like you have to date several women at once-wont even go into how I feel about it personally. Anyway-you know yourself here and she knows herself. YOURE comfortable with the pace youre going at and thats all that matters, youre feeling comfortable with HER and vice versa. Youre doing what you feel is best for you and thats the bottom line and thats the most important thing anyway-its about YOU and your needs and wants and right now Betty is fulfilling those things.

You dont need justification to your friends-honestly i wouldnt even bother talking to them-maybe choose one or two confidants you can talk to-cause then you get that little shit ass on your shoulders and it screws with ya! Go with YOUR own instincts! Youre moving at a pace thats right for you! and HER!

Yeah, i'm trying to avoid skid marks on my shoulder. lol. My friends care about me, they just worry that the past will repeat itself again a 4th time. I don't blame them, but I feel different about this one. The last was my fault. It never felt right and the flags were obvious.

Only you know what is right for you - I think based on everything you've told us Betty is crazy about you. Like your "real" friends I don't want you to get hurt but anytime you open yourself up to someone else that's the chance you take.

Still cheering in Florida!

We talked last night and she was so happy to hear from me. She said that it made her day and there were some bad things that happened with some kids misbehaving, but she couldn't stop smiling.

We talked about when my parents and I come visit Saturday. I'm going to drive seperate so I can stay late because I know they won't want to. We talked about this past weekend and I said "That was the best weekend I had ever shared with someone." She replied "It was the best weekend in my life. I have never been so happy, so much." I was kinda stunned at that and was just like "...really?" and she said "Yes, I know for sure." I just told her that I was happy too and that it was great. I didn't really expect her to think it was THAT fantastic, but if it was for her, i'm not complaining. ;-) It's just hard for me to believe that I can create a "Best weekend in my life" scenario for someone and have it actually be real. I'm really falling for this woman but I still want to get to know her better and have her get to know me. She expressed the same desire. She said that she has thought of how fast we've started and that she understands that it could've been risky, but she feels so good with what we've shared and done, and what we find in each other, that she's never looked back or regretted any choice she's made about me. I feel the same way.
I've told other people our story and some are like "Oh, Zac. Here you go again with one of these girls. Can't you find someone that hasn't had some issue when you met them? Heck, can't you find someone from around here?"

It's frustrating to hear the instant judging, but they don't know what I feel. If they felt what I did, it would take something short of the almighty to change their minds. Love is a powerful and crazy thing sometimes.

BTW: Everyone clapped for her when she came in to find her flower, and complimented her on the flower and that she's lucky to have found me. Nice to get some props for good things. ;-)

I kind of see the whole time line thing as being a sticking point for some people, but truly I believe it's about QUALITY of time not the length of time and you and Betty have some serious quality time together. (Now if I was talking as serious about any of the Nutcases, err Men, in my life as you are about Betty it would be time to call the white coats to haul me off!)

As for the flower, you are awesome, but then you knew that already.

Bono, ahem, I believe you spoke of pictures. . .

WOW J~ I like that comment girl about the QUALITY of time and not the length of time-that can apply to me too!

So Bono-youre on your way to a good thing, dont worry about what others say-yea you may have a track record-BUT youre trying to break it, thats what matters! The flower was a HUGE thing for her trust me on that one-of course shes going to brag and all her friends will be envious of her...well you know that one too!

So how do I post pics on this site? I haven't seen an option to do that.

go to the gallery than hit upload photos