What am I doing (or not doing) that everyone else seems to be hip to?

I was flipping through my Facebook friends this morning, and I looked at twenty or so old female friends from high school, all of which are beautiful, smart, funny talented girls... and all of which are now married. And when I look at the bozos they are married to, it is literally always the same. It's as if those scientists that cloned "Dolly" the sheep, decided to go ahead and apply their science to frat boys. Each and every one of them is holding a Corona w/ a lime, they are wearing a collared polo shit, either striped or solid, and some form of khaki pants (either shorts or long depending on the season), and brown boating shoes. They have the same hair cut, and the same lame cell phone holster on their belt. The only variation on the theme is with or without glasses. But they are married to my beautiful, smart, funny, talented friends.

Anyway... I am not an unattractive guy. I may not be beside George Clooney on People's sexiest men alive... but I do alright. I could stand to drop 20 lbs or so, but I'm 6ft. 4 in. tall so... I wear it well... or so I've been told repeatedly. And besides, I've seen dudes that are as round as beach balls, with beautiful girls.

But anyway... my problem is that I just can't seem to get a single date. And I'm 32 years old. I speak 4 languages. I lived in Europe for 5 years. I became a classically trained chef while in Europe. I have a fantastic job in Marketing. I have played the guitar and drums for 20 years, and I don't even gloat or talk about it at all because I know how big of a tool bag you look like when you spend an hours talking about all your dumb ass guitars at home etc. I'm really funny. I taught cooking classes for 4 years, and was literally like a stand up comedian in those classes. I'm the "life-of-the-party" kind of guys. But I don't wear out my welcome and become obnoxious.

But I can't seem to get a date for shit. I used to do so well. And now... nothing. Every time I meet a girl she says she already has a boyfriend. It could just be the worst luck losing streak known to man. But I think some of them are just lines because girls have a hard time just being honest with anyone, and just saying, "Nah man, I'm just not feeling you." One girl DID tell me that, and I almost kissed her hand for just being straight up with me.

I can't imagine that I am in this alone. What do you girls think is the #1 thing guys do WRONG, or DON'T do... that make us seem unattractive?

I'm not cocky. But I'm not a shy little field mouse. I dunno? Any help?

God. I want to date you now LOL.

Maybe just bad timing?

Well bah... I think I'm available. :)

Maybe it is just bad timing. And if this were a 1-2 month dry spell, I wouldn't even be worried. But I am talking about 6 months here. I mean, I'm not like DESPERATE. I'm fine being by myself. I really have no problem with being by myself. But after 6 months, I start to get worried, that there is something that I'm doing wrong, that might grow like a disease. And I also know that every day after 30, it gets harder to meet girls, and the one's that you do meet can often be SCREWED UP somehow.

Oh well... I realize this is too broad/vague of a question for anyone to answer seriously over the internet. But, I thought maybe girls could say... "I totally hate it when guys..." so I could ask myself if I am doing that.

No confidence is unattractive. I prefer guys who know what they want and who will pursue it.

Shyness doesn't appeal. Nothing worse than a stuttering, stammering wreck....especially if it's a MAN.

Arrogance, cockiness and men who think they are Gods Gift to women are a turn off. I've turned down dates with this type, simply to become the 'first' woman who showed no interest in them...the woman they didn't get and in the hopes of shrinking his oversized ego.....

Men who appear desperate, are a turn off (more so if I don't have 'that' much of an interest)

Men coming on strong are a turnoff (Again, only if I don't have that much of an interest)

xxazurexx - I totally get what you are saying. And I honestly don't know whether I come off as confident or not. It seems like there is such a slim window between coming across as shy and coming across as overly confident. If I meet a girl, and I start telling her about how I lived all over Europe, became a chef, worked as an electrical engineer consultant for the world's largest semiconductor company, then worked for CNN - International, and now teach lawyers at a law school, and how I do this and that, and blah blah blah... I always feel like a pompous ass. It's almost impossible for me to tell my "story" without feeling like some kind of blow hard hey-look-how-cool-I-am types.

But on the other side of the coin, I don't even think women really give that much of a damn about all that crap. I think a woman would take a charming dishwasher over a dickhead in a BMW any day. It's actually a very mean trick that gets pulled on boys in the US. We are pretty much conditioned from birth that we need to achieve... achieve... achieve. More money, more power, more stuff (watches, cars, homes, vacations, boats et cetera. So we set out to get all that... and then you end up 30+ years old, and everyone's suddenly looking at you saying, "Oh, you didn't REALLY think that women want all that stuff did you?!?" They just want a guy that will stand up for himself and APPEAR strong.

The problem is, I don't know how to turn off the "Look what I've done" switch. I have started keeping my mouth shut. When I meet someone new, the conversation is almost always the same. Someone mentions something... anything. And I usually have some kind of story about it. Someone says they like Radiohead for example. Well, I worked for a huge concert production company in Munich Germany for many years, and I spent two whole days with Radiohead showing them around Munich and taking them places, and just hanging out; because I could speak German and English. Did the same thing with tons of bands. Smashing Pumpkins, Sister's of Mercy, Cypress Hill, even worked with the Rolling Stones.

So, I'll say, I met Radiohead once. And then we talk about that for a while.

Then someone will talk about Fox News being shit, and how CSPAN is cool, but they really like CNN the best. So I tell them I edited long form documentaries for CNN for a year.

Then if the conversations turns to restaurants or food, it comes out that I did a culinary apprenticeship in Paris, Lyon, Munich, Vienna, Rome, and Florence. I know every exec. chef in town, and have been in most kitchens in this city.

And this just goes on and on... And after a while, the look in their face is either one of "This guy must be from Outer-Space." or more common, "This guy is a total compulsive liar." So, over time, I've learned to just keep it all to myself. When someone asks me what I do. I just say, I work for the law school. If we talk about music, I just leave it all out, and just talk about the bands that I like. So basically, I take all my "interesting stories" that I have collected over my lifetime, and I shove them on the shelf so as to not come across as a liar or a weird-oh. I think, if I lived in New York, or London, or some place where there are thousands/millions of men who have done a lot, I'd fit in better. But I live in a city in Georgia. Down here, you are something special if you are a line cook at a restaurant that isn't a national chain.

I don't know... I have just started to notice that the more I meet people, the more I start to develop this sort of dis-like of women. And this SUCKS! I grew up absolutely loving women. My dad was never really around, so I was raised basically by my sister and my mother. When other boys were lifting their skirts and punching them on the playground in elementary school... I was more likely to offer them some of my cookie, or help them to the next level of the jungle gym. But now... I just see totally uninteresting guys, with no ambition other than to do exactly what their fathers did, and haven't had an original thought in their life... all laughing the night away with BEAUTIFUL girls on their arms. And the guys treat the girls badly... and the girls seem to love it.

And this has been affirmed by little experiments I've made. Some nights I will meet a girl, and basically talk to her like she's an idiot. I make fun of what she studied in school. I laugh when she tells me who her favorite band is... I just in general treat her like I could care less about her, and that I kind of think she's ridiculous... and WITHOUT FAIL those are the girls that end up asking ME for MY telephone number. What a joke.

First of all: you sound like an interesting person. Kudos for actually managing this, most ppl I know are extremely boring in comparison.

As for your dating issues, I think you may be violating the listen:speak ratio. Ppl are fundamentally self-interested. Its possible you are coming off as self-absorbed by trying to communicate all your experiences. It can be overwhelming (or even boring) for those who aren't equally accomplished. And equally accomplished women (they exist) may find it frustrating you aren't prepared to entertain their interests and so blow you off. This is all a guess, of course, based on your posts. I may be completely off the mark.

My advice is you use your vast interests as a catalyst to stimulate conversation from the gal you are engaging with. Then LISTEN to what she says and only use your experience to move the conversation forward where appropriate. Hold back somethings about yourself. Most, in fact, until you achieve some rapport. Let her go on about herself for a long while and just provide tidbits about yourself sparingly. Less is more, afterall.

From my own experience, I know that ppl don't really want to hear about all the great stuff you have experienced and accomplished. Why should they care? Its not their experiences and achievements. If its someone you might date, they want to know how you relate to THEM. If its someone you manage or teach, they want to know how they can do the same things. Its not much different for spouses and partners either. The difference there is that a partner has a vested interest in your achievement b/c it generally helps them as well.

Hope this helps. Its a jungle out there. Good luck!

IndiReloaded...

I think you are 100% right. Do you know what I hate more than anything? It is when someone tries to explain to me a dream they had the night before. It's always boring, and something that I simply cannot identify with. The person telling me about it is SO passionate about the story... "I was in a car with a gorilla, driving in the mountains, and then suddenly I wasn't in a car, but in a space craft, but we were floating underwater instead of in space... and the Gorilla was actually my uncle, but he just didn't look like himself... you know what I mean?" and I'm like... No, I don't.

I'd rather listen to someone read stereo instructions in Japanese. So I totally get what you are saying about not wanting to hear about my every detailed move through life. No one cares. I think the problem is, I know things of myself, and I assume the same of other people. Like, I would LOVE to meet someone who has a million stories about traveling the world, and working for big cool companies, etc. I would be so impressed and just want to be around that person to learn from them. And if I could meet a GIRL that had done all that, I'd be so in love.

But apparently I'm weird. I took the Meyers-Briggs Personality Test once, and I turned out to be an ENFP (if that means anything to you). And Each of the letters has a percentage as to how E, and how N you are... and I am literally in the .01% of the rest of the world. I have a very very rare personality, apparently. And it really makes people like me... I have 10,000 friends, but I think when it comes to thinking of me as a partner, it is like an overload to the brain, and girls just like to play it safe with collared polo shirt guy. He's got a predictable off-the-shelf personality. Easy to manipulate. Clearly defined roles. And then in 15 years those same girls will look across the dinner table at Mr. Collared Polo Shirt dude, who is STILL wearing the same collared Polo Shirt, and wonder why their life is boring and void of passion.

Yeah, I know I sound too full of myself, and sanctimonious. And I apologize. I think I'm just having a bad day, and the internet is a perfect place to vent.

Thanks!

Hey, no worries. I'm not judging you. Just giving you the objective read on your situation you asked for.

I don't really give much stock to things like the MB personality test, tho I am familiar with it. All that really matters is you have a model for how your personality might affect your interactions with others and your experiences are the best indicator of that. If I've hit the mark: glad to be of some help.

You do seem to take some pride in your 'uniqueness'. Coming from an academic background, I can tell you its common as dirt that certain personalities see themselves as unique. I probably fall into that category and my husband certainly does. You might want to figure how to reign that in, for the reasons I said. Otherwise you will just end up in endless pissing-contests. There is *always* someone smarter, funnier, wealthier, more accomplished out there. Sometimes even posting from behind the anonymity of a computer on the internet. ;)

Tone down the "one-upmanship" in your conversations. Start by recognizing when you are doing it. Use your experiences strategically. You'll do just fine, I expect.

You are so right. And what sucks, is I totally see it when some other guy is doing it. And I HATE a one-uper. But I totally am one. But I don't realize I am doing it until it's done. Hmmm... it can be so hard to see the forest for the trees. I very much envy women in a log of ways. It seems like women don't sit down with some equation about what they find attractive, and then they go out looking for it. They just trust their instincts in the moment. A man will try to learn the tricks, control the pattern, fit the bill, play the role. But in the end, a woman can see, smell, and hear your bullshit. Sometimes I think a woman will pick up on a man's bullshit, but still go home with him just because she's bored, or horny.

Anyway... the two things I have to work on are, stopping the thought process of trying to use my accomplishments to impress someone. Because it just comes off as week, needy, and one-uping. And I also have to stop trying to guess what everyone must be thinking. I talk about women this, men that, these types of guys, those types of women... it's all bullshit. We're all just people, and no matter how badly my logical brain wants to try to establish patterns, and catalog everyone into neat little boxes... it just blows up in my face every time. The point is... when a woman walks through the door of a bar... I can't assume ANYTHING about her. Hell, these days, I can't even assume she's a woman.

It is so hard to just sit back, and do nothing. Because women are NOT going to approach me; if I want to meet someone, I will have to do the approaching. And that is such an awkward scenario as it is... it's almost impossible to do something that feels so unnatural, and then have someone say, "Dude just act natural."

Being single sucks! :)

Interpreter: I hope I’m not giving you the impression you shouldn’t be proud of your accomplishments in your interactions with others. I’m not. But, at the risk of offending you, I will tell you that it’s actually not that hard to become accomplished, as an individual. Simply b/c you are only dealing with one variable: yourself. All the things that might prevent someone from achieving their goals and interests are internal and limited to themselves which is relatively easy to manage, for those so inclined.

It’s a whole other skillset to be able to able to successfully mesh your personality with another, especially when that other party is just as self-motivated and accomplished as you. IMO, you are far more likely to encounter conflict in these relationships, but you also get to interact with someone who is more likely to relate to your mindset. Whether this is a good thing for you or not, only you know. Be careful what you ask for, I guess I’m telling you. ;)

That said, your experiences make you who you are and if there are some ppl who find it too much to handle, screw them. They obviously aren’t a fit for you.

So, what are your options? Your dismissive comments about the “dreamer” types you’ve encountered say you aren’t prepared to tolerate someone who might not be your intellectual equal (whatever that means). This is going to limit your available pool to those who aren’t ‘gormless twits’. Of course, many of these people are extremely nice, and sincere. By excluding them, you may be missing out and selecting for more of the intellectual sharks, or worse, the pseudo-intellectual twits that are out there in abundance.

You mention meeting women in bars. That’s probably one of your main problems right there. You could start by changing your venue for meeting people. Check out this new “meetup.com” website for ideas on common interest groups to join in your area. You also mention teaching law. No offense to you personally (you seem unusual for it, frankly) but I’ve never been terribly impressed by lawyers except a very few who left the profession to do other things. So you might want to expand your dating pool by attending events where women from other professions might be present. I’m expressing a personal bias here, but people trained in the basic sciences and engineering tend to have broader interests that you might find appealing. The days of ugly, geeky women in science are long past.

I doubt I am telling you much you don’t already know. But perhaps it will help to see it written from an anonymous source who doesn’t know you personally. Hopefully some of our male members who are/have been where you are will post some help as well when they get back from their weekend. Meantime, keep your chin up and good luck.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dolmetscher [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

And this has been affirmed by little experiments I've made. Some nights I will meet a girl, and basically talk to her like she's an idiot. I make fun of what she studied in school. I laugh when she tells me who her favorite band is... I just in general treat her like I could care less about her, and that I kind of think she's ridiculous... and WITHOUT FAIL those are the girls that end up asking ME for MY telephone number. What a joke.

---

Funny how that works, isn't it? I get the most phone numbers when I'm traveling alone. I'm in a bar, reading a book, doing a crossword, etc while I eat. Someone approaches me, I'm practically ignoring her because hell, I live 1000 miles away and nothing will develop from this, and she asks for my number when I go to leave. Seriously? I had a more engaging conversation with the bartender, and you want to go for Round 2?

I've given up trying to understand it. Somewhere along the way I lost patience. I'm either with someone who made the first move or happily single, I stopped pursuing women a few years ago. I enjoy the flirting aspect, but I just can't be bothered to keep up the chase. I kinda envy my gay friends, picking up other guys seem so much simpler from an observer's standpoint. I love women, and I'd do anything for my GF and female friends, but I hate the seeming backward nature of the initial pickup. I don't know when I got this jaded, and I don't like it.

I LOVED the dream comment, though. I hate that conversation. The best response is to fire back one of your own. I keep a story handy about a childhood dream where I could breathe underwater and this shark was chasing me, and I was swimming through these green pipes, and...hey, where's everyone going?

IndiReloaded... I get you, and I'm pretty sure I know what you mean. But I do think that there is a little lost in translation over the internet. I was married for 10 years. 9 of those years was absolutely the best years of my life. I don't want to open that can of worms about explaining why I left my wife, but it's important to say that no one cheated, no one lied, there was no huge drama that sparked a sudden termination of the relationship. It's complicated, but it's important to note that she was my best friend the entire time we were married, and even though we are not together anymore, I still think of her as my best friend; one that I just can't see.

You are very much on to something when you say I need to meet women somewhere other than bars. I just so happen to live in a town with 100,000 people, 75,000 of which are students at the local university, so there are 56 bars in this one horse town. There aren't too many community centers, or groups for people who aren't 22 years old. It complicates things. My last girlfriends was ten years younger than me. I was 31, she was 21. I will NEVER do that again. If the girl doesn't remember the Berlin Wall falling, I move on.

And I'm not too sure where you picked up on me not accepting "dreamer types". That is exactly what I am looking for. What I am NOT looking for is some brass tacks, microbiologist who thinks her future career at the Center for Disease Control is the only thing worth pursuing. All I want is a quick whited but tender-hearted girl that may not like the same things that I do, but is willing to give it a go (at least once). Someone who likes to travel, and try new foods.

That's pretty much my only real list... and in fact... you could shorten it down to tender hearted, and will try new foods. That's it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dolmetscher [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

The person telling me about it is SO passionate about the story... "I was in a car with a gorilla, driving in the mountains, and then suddenly I wasn't in a car, but in a space craft, but we were floating underwater instead of in space... and the Gorilla was actually my uncle, but he just didn't look like himself... you know what I mean?" and I'm like... No, I don't.

---

This^ is the "dreamer" comment I was referring to. I type fast and just couldn't think of the word to describe this phenotype, but yes, I agree its different from the dreamer type you describe.

So you know about finding that 'fit' after all. I'm preaching to the choir in this case, so I will wrap this lazy Sunday pm with wishing you the best in your search. Perhaps Cam will post in your thread with some wisdom. He's another poster here who might relate to your situation more directly.

Best,
Indi