possible for a short man? (ladies please)

hi - i would like to ask the ladies a question, and hopefully have some discussion:

is it possible for a woman to be attracted (initially) to a short man?

what does it take for a short man to overcome this when seeking female company?

i am 34-years old. i have never had a date or a girlfriend. i've been told that i am attractive and have a good sense of humor, but i've never felt that i was attractive to the opposite sex. (i've never felt that i was flirted with, etc.). ...i am a 5'4" tall man.

i have been successful in two fields simutaneously, in the corrections and counseling fields. after 16 years of establishing myself, i found that i am lonely and sought out to find a "special someone".

using the internet, i found that by and large, on singles sites, women seem to specifically state a preference for taller men.

i have had no success at all in hundreds of attempts online (or elsewhere).

i have searched the net for material relating to the short man and relationships and have been very discouraged by what i've found.

the majority of the material indicates that it is "natural" for the average woman to desire the taller man.

is this my imagination? is it true that regardless of my other attributes and accomplishments this one thing is destined to keep me lonely?

ladies, please respond. be honest. this is not a criticism of you, just want to know if this stigma is real and/or how to overcome it. all replies will be appreciated and respected.

thank you.

I can only speak for myself, but I don't think that that your height would keep ALL women away from you, and prevent you from ever having a meaningful relationship. Granted, there are a lot of shallow people out there in which they judge a potential partner in looks, height, weight, etc., but I have learned it is what is on the inside that matters. I have had a few boyfriends who were great looking and quite a bit taller than me ( I am concidered short as well :content: ) and they were complete jerks, and had no personality. I'm sure I am not the only woman out there that has learned this, so don't lose hope.
Are you shy?

thanks for responding, vanessa.

yes, i am shy. it seems that goes back as far as i can remember. see, until recently, i never thought of myself as a short man!

as a youth, i always felt rejected and, eventually, decided to not even pursue the idea of relationships.

as stated in my initial post, i then dedicated my entire adult life to my career(s), and "living for myself". i became successful in a "tall man's" career, never once assuming that all the "short guy" jokes were being directed at me. this was fine for a while until i realized, recently, that i am 30-something, alone, close to a young retirement in my primary (corrections) job, and wanting for a partner.

you mentioned superficiality in your post. i must clarify something here, and this has gotten me into trouble before, but please hear me out.

i have had offers in the past to "set me up" with women, but invariably these were women who did not share my interest in physical fitness. that is to say, they were morbidly obese.

no, i'm not saying that i have an idealized "barbie" view of women in that they must be perfect, but yes, some degree of physical attraction is a factor, even for the short man.

it is very frustrating to be confronted with the idea that there is a stereotype of the "short man and large woman", when one is not attracted to that. even more distressing is the fact that the ONLY material i've found in my research that speaks admiringly of the short man is homosexual in nature. given my background, can you imagine how hard something like that is for a man like me to face?

o.k., that's out, and i hope i didn't offend. let's understand that if in fact the short man is particularly unattractive to most women, i'm not pointing a finger or criticizing. i've seen that this appears to be a societal thing that dates back perhaps to prehsitoric times. thus, if so, women today can hardly be blamed. i just want to forward discussion on the topic.

i will be honest. i think that height does affect a woman's decsion, BUT it's not to the degree men may think. honestly, a girl won't date a guy that is a foot shorter than she is, but a few inches isn't that great of a deal. i have a friend who has it harder than you do, he's 5'3",..now how lucky is he? yet he's had meaningful relationships and they worked out pretty good from what know of. trust me, life isn't as bad and you think and when the time comes, you'll meet miss right. raverboy

hi illusional - welcome to the discussion. please stay awhile, i think your perspective is quite honest.

i've posted this topic on other message boards in the past, and it usually fuels very heated debate - apparently this issue is just as deep with women as it is with short men.

i have only begun to confront the issue of my height at this late age. as a corrections officer of 16-years, i've excelled in the "tall man's world" by never seeing myself as "less than" any other man. i have not been walking around feeling inferior all these years. this came up for me recently with my decision to seek a female companion, and being dismayed at what i've found in personals, on the internet, etc. i have lived a very challenging, often difficult life, and it appears that when it comes to women, it means nothing - when i walk into the room, i AM seen as "less than" other men...even if i don't feel that way and those other men haven't done half of what i've done.

i have found that there are "communities" of short men, particularly on the internet, dealing with this. i have read long essays from short men who are ceo-level executives making six-figure salaries, who are at the brink of suicide because of this continual social rejection. i understand there may even be a documentary film in the works about this phenomenon.

needless to say, all of this has had a profound effect on me, requiring therapy. all these years i had fooled myself into thinking that the only reason i wasn't with women was because I rejected relationships. i now see that that may have been my own defense against the painful feeling of being "looked past" by women unable/unwilling to take a short man seriously.

one of the things i've felt compelled to do, along with resolving my own dilemna, is to bring this discrimination to public awareness. as a social work student and counselor, i've chosen to make that an eventual focus for my life.

no, women are not "to blame" here. there is apparently a bias against short men in just about every social situation, and all around the world. the most vicious anti-short man material i have seen has originated from africa and asian women.

that is part of the reason i'm doing this. to encourage discussion, gain understanding, possibly get some answers for myself, and increase awareness. please take my posts in that regard, not as anger.

ladies - what do you think of the "tall, dark, handsome" ideal?

have you ever spoken of, or heard other women speak of a "short (anthing else)" man with equal admiration?

have you ever heard of a short man actually being considered preferable (tom cruise doesn't count)?

for the above questions, please disqualify any answer that may include: "...but once i got to know him...".

how do you feel about the man in "joe millionaire"? (that was a particularly hard slap to the aforementioned successful short men)

what do you think of the idea of needing to be with a man who is "taller than you when you're wearing heels"?

thank you for your input, bob k.

by the way, i haven't opened this topic to men before, but guys feel free to respond as well (especially short men...).

men have responded to this topic on other boards. it's very inttersting how they responded. they did not ridicule me for being a "30+ virgin", or for "not getting laid". by and large, the responses from men stated that i should consier myself "lucky" to not be intimate with women.

for the record, i disagree with that...i have spent a great deal of time working with women, counseling women. i've been told i'm quite successful at dealing with women, in my work. i have a real fondness and admiration for women. i just hope that i can find that in my life, even with my height. and, i really hope to help other short men facing this pain.

I think that you're too hung up on your height.

You're probably correct, when faced with two virtually identical men who only differ in size, almost all women will go for the taller man. And, taller men will get girlfriends without much trouble (unless they are unusually hideous or fat). But that doesn't mean that women will dismiss all men below 5 '8 inches. It is always the psychology that is important; if you can establish a meaningful connection with someone, then your height will go to the back of the woman's mind. And 5 '4 isn't that bad, some men are 5 foot only. And in fact, your height is about average for human males, but, obviously, being a Westerner, this will be of little consolation. :(

You can't carry about yourself a negative self-image. That will turn the girls off, and it definitely won't do you any good. OK, your height is a disability, but don't let that force another disability upon you.

hi calgacus - there is some optimism in your post, but also some doubt. you acknowledge the idea that women seem to prefer taller, but go back to the "once you establish...".

that does sound optimistic, but how does one actually go about that? especially when it seems that womens' initial reaction to you is one of revulsion (like the "scrunching up" of shoulders body language when you ask them to dance, or giving a dirty look when you attempt small talk - "ohhh, who's this SHORT guy")? any advice? ladies?

i don't know how accurate you are on average male height. statistics seem to indicate that 5'9" is the norm, and women's "want lists" on personals seem to significantly back that up. there seems to be a view (among short men) that women don't really want "tall". they want "normal" - a short man is not viewed as being "normal".

or...

could your point be that this is an IDEALIZED "want" on the part of women? that they really are quite capable of breaking through that barrier for a decent man? if this were the case, it would actually be hopeful - indicating that women EVENTUALLY see through such things. their lack of response to short men on personal sites doesn't support that, though. maybe those sites are truly a bad venue for the short man? any ideas?

finally, not to nitpick, but this is not strictly a western phenomenon. i don't recall if i mentioned it in this thread, but there has been particularly hateful anti-short man writing originating from women of african and asian descent.

thanks again, and welcoome aboard

The point that I was making about average height was that the average human male, not the average man from northern Europe, is about your height. I know that in Holland and Germany it is about 5 '11, in England it is about 5 '9 and in France about 5 '8, but the average man in say China (1/5th of the World's population) or India (another 1/5th) is considerably smaller. I did say that it'd be of little consolation. :)

I'm sorry that you get the impression of revulsion from women. That must be a pretty horrible experience :( . The fact is that women have a much easier playing field than men and can be pickier as a result. They soon realize though that they have to consider more than looks. Women are very similar to teenage males. They will not be attracted immediately to women who are not stunning, but they usually end up with that type because psychological comfort and compatibility are much more important in the long-term than superficial attractions. You just need to get past the first stage - getting to know them. If you aren't attractive physically, then your first approach to women should not be a romantic one, because they will judge you upon what they know at the point of approach, which is the immediate (and bad according to you) physical impression that you give them. My best advice to you is to acquire as many female friends as possible, be patient, and then something will probably happen. I hope something does happen for you.

I have been dating a man who is shorter than me and he is the best guy I have ever gone out with! He is 5'5" and I am about 5'7". He makes me feel :D (lol) Anyway, I have had alot of relationships in my life with a variety of men. The guy I am seeing now has more good qualities than I ever imagined. I don't know if it's because he's short and has had a low self-esteem about his image or what, but he is also shy and he hasn't had very many relationships in his life either. And because of this I think that he has definately paid alot more attention to how others deal with their relationships. He knows so much more than the average man I have dated. He doesn't ever take 'us' for granted and he even pays attention when I get in those moods where I can jabber my jaws for hours about everything under the sun. There is so much more to him than any other relationship I've ever been in. To me- I finally found the "needle in the haystack".

I have another girlfriend of mine who's husband is quite a bit shorter than her. He has alot of similar qualities that my boyfriend has. So, in our eyes, short guys have been the best lovers & friends than any other relationship we've had. I think it's because shorter guys grew up feeling that they always had to try harder than their peers and maybe because they didn't get the attention from girls like the taller guys did, it made them become more observant. They could see that the guys who could get anyone they wanted didn't put alot of effort into a realtionship because they knew the girl could easily be replaced.

I don't know. But I do know that my guy got me by showing up where I hung out, paying attention to me, calling me up to invite me to hang out with him & his buddies or just him, and catching my eye when we were out in public with alot of people. He doesn't display any signs of jealousy either. And he's always the one who brings up the parts of our relationship that we need to work on! He has respect for 'us'!

Hope this gives you some confidence! Don't cut yourself short just because you are! ;)

Get out there and pay attention and see if anyone is trying to 'catch your eye'!

KatWoman