Silly girl, terrible situation, confused me.

Ok to start off let me apologize for the TLDR factor. My situation is pretty messy at this point though and I believe [as always], that higher quality data leads to higher quality results, if you would.

I posted about this all months ago after the first round, if you are curious it can be viewed here:

[url]http://www.loveforum.net/threads/53467-Bad-timing-amazing-girl-impatient-me.?highlight=[/url]

However for completeness sake I will just lay it all out. I will do my best to keep it as brief as possible.

Thank you in advance for reading!

Ok so last time the answers you all provided seemed to be pretty spot on so I figure I will try again.



I will use point form a lot in an attempt to shorten this, so please excuse my assault on grammar!



The Characters:



Me- Herein referred to as ‘me’, ‘I’, etc

Some background on me is that I am 29- have not dated much a 2 year relationship followed by dating 1 girl in the next 10 years, then this.
I get attached easily, I recognize this, and guard against it.
Very picky- I know what I want when I see it.
Nice guy, intelligent, funny. Far too nice for my own good.
I do not chase girls. This may be a problem for me, I like when they chase me to be honest. This whole situation is completely without precedent for me however.
I am mostly oblivious to women, this being a result of not dating for 10 years I suppose. I also simply do not have experience in ‘dealing’ with them.



Her- Nice girl, will make a good mother one day.
Smart, intelligent, I think she is beautiful- but she does not,
Impulsive, free spirited, sex is important-she is good at it.
Wants to settle down, have kids that sorta thing.
Lets call her Beth
She is a Sagitarious- I don’t really buy into this stuff, but it can be fun to think about I guess. She is definitely a textbook definition of a Sag though [for what its worth I am a Leo and typical enough one]
0 Shame



Her best friend- Nice lady, few years older than both of us.
I have known her for years [longer than Beth has]
Lets call her Susan

The Ex- Lets just call him X.
Likely a sociopath, I could add about 1000 words to describe him. Lets just say he is not a savory individual. I have done some research, and this is pretty much his method of operation. He runs girls into the ground, gets bored, moves on, but comes back when he is bored [ie wants sex]



Little Blonde Friend- Lets call her Lisa.
Nice girl, good for my self esteem, not to much needs be said here.


Beth and X-
Oil and water.
Fight constantly.
She is abused mentally, emotionally and physically at least to some extent.
She is a free spirit, he stifles this. Controls her, hates Susan [feeling is mutual of course]
She is always unhappy, does not want children with this man, nor to marry him.
4 break-ups now?


Beth and I-
Common interests, both work related [biology and health], and home [video games, adventures, etc]
Not similar where it counts [free spirit her vs grounded me, impulsive her vs analytical decision maker me, adventurous her vs great adventure companion me etc etc etc]
I see it, she sees it.
Once upon a time she had a bf, one she truly loved. You can just tell about the way she talks about him. He was also a Leo like me, and I get compared to him quite a bit.


Ok so let me just preface my actual story here. This is almost certainly a ‘Knight in Shiny Armor’ scenario. I do not want this, I did not ask for this. Perhaps I was complicit in its development. I am aware that this is not a good position to be in, but here I am.

So we begin many months ago, 8 in fact. My buddy and Susan want to hook their friends up. Pretty sure it was supposed to be some casual entertainment, if you would, but I don’t really work that way. So we all have drinks, don’t sleep together by any means, but kinda hit it off, for very legitimate reasons.

So randomly bump into her the next day, then get facebooking, about a week later we have our first date. Goes amazingly well, we basically just sit there and chat over coffee. For 5 hours. I don’t think I have ever had a proper 5 hours conversation with someone. This screams ‘whoa’ to me. Turns out neither has she, and this fact has been brought up likely a dozen times by her since. We make plans for a second date, 7 hours of sustained conversation. Wow.

So third date gets transferred to her place pretty quick, less chatting, more sex.

A few days later we are going to some mutual friends’ house to play cards, and Susan posts so on facebook. I stay over Beth’s house for the night and wake up to her phone ringing. She grabs it and goes outside with it to talk. I figure either her ex [who I am aware of] or parents. Well it was her ex who was alerted to my…interference… by facebook.

So a few days later still I kinda get freaked out, ask her if I am just a rebound. Turns out that of course I was, but not so much anymore, that she likes me a lot and does want a relationship with me. Then she disappears. Find out a few days later from Susan that yep X is back around. Grr. So I get sorta worked up but really just want to have some sorta closure chat. Well this turns into an hour and a half chat her goin on about how stupid she is being, she knows it her friends tell her etc etc. I tell her that really she needs to get over this guy, but that in a few months she should call me back and see whats up.

Well suffice to say a week later she texts away, he is gone for good blah blah blah. I really did try to play her off but she just kept coming, and we get back into it, slowly at first [greatly assisted by her coming down with a cold and giving it to me].

Here we have a good chance for me to insert a story which may be somewhat telling. When she was sick I decided that the proper thing to do one day was to stop by and see her, bring her some soup. So after work I stop by the local coffee shop and get a couple of soup combo’s. I have no idea what sorta soup she likes, so I figure a good bet is just to grab a couple flavours I find acceptable, and hopefully she will find one of those to her liking. Well when I get there she is incredibly pumped about my gesture. However when I offer her her choice of soups, she basically refuses to pick one, telling me to. Now I already have, whichever one she does not prefer will suit me just fine, I explain this to her, but still she will not pick. End result is me just grabbing the closest one and passing it to her. Basically the point of this story I suppose is to illustrate, this girl does not know how to be treated well.



So things go along well, we eventually become sickness free and resume physically. However I took some terrible advice in there, to ‘just take it for what it is’ [just casual fun]. I put my walls up and tried not to get emotionally invested. This is likely a bad idea for me however. I am a passionate person, so while my emotions can get me down, they are also what makes me tick and makes me interesting.

So one Saturday night me, Beth, Susan and Beth’s roommate are sitting around drinking, we crash with Susan staying over on the couch in Beth’s room. At around 6am I wake up to voices. There is a girl and a guy talking to each other in the kitchen and almost immediately the curtain door between kitchen and beth’s room opens and there is a dude I do not recognize. I give him the ‘just woke up but I will likely murder you in 5s face’ and he vanishes, says something to the unknown girl and the door closes. I am more than a little freaked out, but whoever it was is gone and I let the ladies sleep.

So it turns out it was X, with some random bar girl, looking for a 3-some with his ex.

Of course now he sees I am in his territory, obviously jeopardizing his easy sex, yet again.

So a couple days later, playing cards at Beth’s. She is fiddling with her phone, then a knock at the door. She answers it, doesn’t come back. I should have looked more at the look of- let me stress this- ABJECT HORROR in the faces of her roommate and friend. [her other friend than Susan]. I figure I will leave shortly after her friend as she is not returning. She does return over an hour later, basically in tears, with a story about how she was kidnapped. Her friend leaves, roommate makes himself scarce, she pours us drinks and we chat and chat. I am pretty angry at this point but am being as nice as I can be. She is shook up. She goes on and on about X and how horrible he is and this and that [things which I have heard a few times prior to this]. I go to leave an hour or two later but she grabs me, starts kissing me and uhh..convinces me to not leave. Go home a while later still angry but somewhere along the way convince myself that despite the fact she gave him that inch, she did come back and sleep with me, walls down. Bad timing.

A couple days later she stops txting me and of course, X is back.

So over the next few weeks I just kinda let it go. However I am still hanging out with Susan a bit so I get some info. I also get ‘poked at’ by Beth. She starts liking my facebook statuses and so forth, even one night at 4am sends me a text saying, “I misz you”. Of course when I responded the next morning, nothing back.

So I started to get annoyed and on my lunch break one day go to her house. I won’t say I was a complete jerk, but I basically explained to her that if it is gonna be like this that she has to leave me alone, that if she is gonna let this guy destroy her, that she was not welcome to take me with her. Explained that she has options, lose the moron, but until then leave me alone.

To her credit, she did. And so did I. I never stopped thinking about her of course. Likely half a dozen notes were written but undelivered, I never did anything but I never stopped thinking.

So it is now mid-summer, late July I believe, and Susan is going away on vacation. I have been occasionally hanging out with her since all this, I think you can say that we ‘bonded’ a bit over the whole experience. So we are sitting and chatting and her phone rings. Of course it is Beth who is coming over. Beth however is all weird that I am there and I should go. Well this is stupid isn’t it.

So I got kinda annoyed about this and decided it was time to put this sort of nonsense to rest. So the next morning I send her a message saying I will be stopping by for a few to chat, oddly enough she is receptive of it. So I do so. Pretty much the first thing she says as I walk in the door is, ‘you must have ESP’. I guess X was being well and himself. They were supposed to go on a little trip together but he ended up booking his vacation a week ahead of hers, and intended to go on his trip using her car. Classssssy.

So we chatted agreed that it should not be stupid and awkward. She suggests that I start playing some silly facebook game she and Susan and some others play[X included]. Overall chat goes well, as it always does when I am direct and…a man I guess…

So suffice to say later that night the texting starts. She suggests I become her ‘new Susan’ [I should note that her and Susan are beeeeest friends, joined at the hip style]. So I kinda play along and do end up starting playing this silly facebook game.



Enter Lisa.

So a day after I start playing this facebook game, another person on my facebook starts playing it as well. This girl is a gorgeous little blonde girl, who as far as I know is seeing and has a kid with my best friend of years before [who, for the record, is definitely a sociopath]. So my moral compass is kinda spinning wildly, but I certainly owe this guy less than nothing, and this beautiful girl is trying really really hard to get my attention, so I go along with it.

Come to think of this, I think I was an unwitting knight in this situation as well. We began chatting a *lot* on facebook, and eventually one night me and some friends were out on the town. My friends were going off in another direction, and I saw someone familiar sitting on a picnic table looking rather sad. I approached her [Lisa of course] and chatted with a bit. Her bf [my old best bud] had ditched her, downtown, without a jacket. So I offered her my jacket and she hung out with my friends and I for the night [who she knew as well]. Apparently I turned a disaster of a night into a good night for her. So soon therafter she sent her buddy up the river and we started dating. This girl is nice and was never without a compliment for me, something I am not used to and find quite intoxicating to say the least.

In the meantime, Beth never stopped. She would regularly attempt to chat with me at night on facebook. Often times she would message me, then when I would return home I would respond, response likely to be seen by X, as he would wake up much earlier in the morning that her. I expect she was specifically trying to cause herself difficulties, she has told me it did cause her difficulties in fact.

Now while I did regularly chat with Beth, I am very much a monogamist and am very loyal as well [relatively certain I am incapable of cheating on someone], so that’s all it was to me, chatting. Her, well I dunno how I am this oblivious, but with her it was what I now term as ‘nice guy therapy’. Basically whenever X was a jerk, where would she turn. Yours truly of course [which Susan has confirmed].

It is worth mention at this time, that through Susan, Beth was certainly aware that I was seeing someone, and that someone was a 9/10 and 5 years her junior.

So one day I am going for a coffee with Susan and halfway through who shows up in the car next to us but Beth. She jumps in my car and we all chat. A bit later I drop Susan off at her place as she has to work early. Beth however wants to keep hanging out, so we go back to the coffee shop and sit in the car and chat for a while. And by chat I mean she rants and raves about X. Me being happy enough with Lisa just sit there and call her silly a lot, but lend her my ear. She goes on about this and that and how she had his stuff packed yesterday and its all going away soon and this and that.

So things start to get confusing and downhill with this Lisa one shortly therafter, so when a week later Beth starts fb messaging me one morning about how X is gone blah blah blah, I just kind of play her off. She even drops this line, with little to no other context. And I quote, “My body is yours, make me have fun.” Now I dunno maybe I misinterpreted this, but I severely doubt it. I definitely shoulda up and left work and done that, but alas, Lisa. For the rest of the day though, Beth was non-stop, but I was a champ and played her off pretty effectively.

So a couple days later sure enough it officially ends with Lisa, yes I have literally the worst timing in the world. I message beth saying cancel the coffee lets do drinks. She responds but we never work anything out. I assume she still figured I was seeing Lisa but who knows. Around a week and a half later I go over to Susans, where it turns out that Beth has been staying since the recent breakup. Me and Susan chat, she asks me how things go with Lisa and I explain that girls are weird and that is done.

Beth shows up after work, takes one look at me and gets annoyed. I suppose its possible she was just annoyed from work, but I think it was me. I hang around for a bit all the same, she gets better but nothing I would consider friendly.

So I go home, kinda annoyed that she was annoyed, but what can you do. Then a few minutes later my phone buzzes, text message from Beth of course. I have to assume that Susan gave her the scoop on me and Lisa, because suddenly she is extraordinarily friendly. So we chat away for the next few days. She continues to tell me [more like herself], all the things she likes about me, even goes so far as to uhh..compliment my endowment. This continues over the next week, and Friday night we get plans together to have some drinks. Now me, I want this girl, badly, but I want her, not the her that is still attached to this guy. However I felt that I had been strongly propositioned by this girl, so my motives may have been less than pure with regard to this night. Let me also add that Lisa..oh dear, beautiful as she was, she was a terrrrible person to be a rebound for. Lets just say, if you don’t have something for sale, don’t put it on display, and absolutely do *not* vigoursly market it. It is completely unfair. Terrible frustrating that whole thing was in the end.

So I go into this night, more than anything, just looking for some. So as the evening winds away Susan goes to bed and its just me and Beth chilling talking, drinking way to much. I am sure I got insanely flirty but she never flinched, and was certainly kinda flirty back. She starts getting texts at some point, from X of course, which she is kinda annoyed at, and after a couple minutes I take her phone, put it on the table and make my move. Go go timing for me right. So we kiss for some time, not long, and she kinda backs off and is like, ‘I can’t do this, I want a relationship with you, but I am not ready for one now emotionally, but this is all a good thing.

Wow, I know sex certainly complicates things, but apparently sometimes not-sex complicates things way way worse.

I remember very little of the remainder of the conversation, as I was rather intoxicated, I mainly just remember it being a ‘good’ conversation, me being very annoyed because I was not able to summon the words I needed, and me asking her one thing…that if X came back, that she just tell me.

So the next day I was invited over by Susan. I kinda knew it was a bad idea but I went anyways. Beth did not seem impressed, barely acknowledged my existence. I was put off by this of course, I could tell she was dealing with annoying texts from annoying people.

The next morning, Sunday, I was awakened by Beth wanting me to come out for coffee. I of course did, she apologized for sucking the night before, that she had not been feeling well. Why I didn’t confront her on this I have no clue, but I didn’t. Alright so things are goin okay I suppose, friends it is. Then the oddest thing happened.

I am plugging away at work the next day, had just gotten back from break and received a text message from Beth. She asked if I had gone on break yet. I replied that I had, asked why, was she out for coffee or something, yes she was and just wanted to see if I was on break for some company. Well for the next week she showed up every day on break or on lunch to ‘hang out’. Now let me be clear, there are about 4 coffee shops closer to Susan’s house that she could have gone to. She was going very much out of her way to do this. I did reciprocate a bit, stopped by her work for a coffee a couple of times and had some chats but mainly I just let her lead.

On one of the nights of that week I got a phone call not long after work. It is Beth and she explains she just had a coffee with X, told him never to talk to her again and this and that. Now at this point I am no stranger to her discussing this guy, and it is rarely a good thing, however this discussion, I dunno it really seemed that she was getting rid of him this time. Further to this conversation she went on again about how she wanted a relationship with me, but now is not a good time emotionally etc etc. So even if our drunk chat is hazy, she repeated the same sentiments while sober. Further to this she also continued to pick out the things she liked about me, and indicated how jealous she was when she heard about Lisa. On top of that, she even rambled off all her 'bad' qualities, which honestly really didnt trouble me at all [basically she was making sure there were no dealbreakers I think?], and even talked about her future and what not [pretty much that she is happy just serving coffee at this point in her life, which I am sure is a lead in to a housewife status].

So the following weekend the two of us and a number of our friends went out for paintball, good times. After paintball, come coffee gogo. After coffee, come over to Susans and bbq. So by the nights end we were having a few drinks and wow, she didn’t stop flirting with me. At one time grabbing my crotch, reaching into my pocket to obtain my lighter etc. Suffice to say that when she ‘just wants to be friends’, she has been treating me like more of a bf than ever before, minus the physical aspect of course.

Now me I just tried to take this in stride not jump to anything, she is an overbearing person and perhaps this is just how she is good friends with someone, but holy confusion for me all the same. The following Monday she stops by my work for break again, but this time she brings up X again. The next day she gets a new iphone, which I also have one of. I suggest coffee and I can show her some things about her new toy. Seems a friendly enough thing to do? She makes excuses, then I get some really weird messages from her/Susan for the rest of the night. Still not sure what the deal was but it got me all out of whack. Then to add to it she kinda stopped playing our silly facebook game. A couple days later I text her and get no response. At this point I assumed X was back and kinda freaked out a little. I call her phone after work, hours after I texted her. Suggested we should definitely grab a coffee and chat. She dodges the coffee [says later and then texts me later saying she can’t]. She does explain that Susans internet was out lately hence no facebook game, and that she left her phone with Susan so she could have something to do while Beth was at work.

I calmed down a little bit, but explained that we should still have a chat. I had some things to say, things that I never said, that I needed to say. Well she kept dodging making excuses etc. She would still text me here and there but not much. So sure enough at some point it comes out to me that ya, X is back. So some time passes, I did not communicate with Beth much for a week or two. Then one Saturday night, it is around 3am and I am at home, text message comes through, from of course, Beth. She just kinda chats away for an hour or so, explains she is waiting for Susan to get off of work at 6am or so. So we chat away and then eventually I am just like..ok well done with what I am doing, its either bedtime or time for her to pick me up. She picks me up.

Wow I fail, miserably. Didn’t pick up on the fact that she was going to someones house, then break in conversation, then coming to pick me up. I did not pick up on the fact that her car was a godawful mess when I got in it [donuts strewn throughout the drivers seat foot area etc.

Suffice to say this is when I needed to say all my stuff, but instead I just figured that hey, if she is gonna be friendly then I won’t trouble her today, like a reward for not being horribly awkward or something. So we chat and hang out, as always I am brilliant ‘nice guy therapy’, and once Susan gets off, I go home to bed.

The next day I am pleased about it all until Susan messages me. She is like, ‘next time she calls, ignore her, she went back to him.

What the night before was all about was something along the lines of one of X’s friends called her to come take his car keys or him or something. Fight ensued, he told her ‘you will always have my love, but never my fidelity’, slapped her, and god only knows what else.

I guess it’s a good thing I have no idea where X lives, because I likely would be in jail for murder right now. Susan however was not supposed to tell me all this, she assumed that Beth already had. So I am kinda stuck knowing that which I am not supposed to know, but I suppose I knew already to an extent.

So I arranged a coffee with Susan a few days later. Beth shows up, but doesn’t leave her car. Her and Susan go chat in the bathroom of the coffee shop for a minute, Beth swiftly departs. Me and Susan resume our chat, 100% of course about the whole ordeal. Mostly be going on about why I am so stuck on this and this and that, certainly chatting enough about Beth as well though. And of course what I should do and maybe will do. An hour later beth shows up again, and doesn’t leave her car..again. We have a terribly awkward coffee for a bit, then Susan goes to the washroom. I look at Beth and tell her to get in my car. She ignored Susan saying the same thing, when I said it she may as well have teleported.

So I can only assume that Susan relayed some information to Beth, not really sure what however.

Later in the week I go to Susans place, grab some Whiskey and pour us up some drinks. After quite some time Beth shows up, before she is going to X’s I can assume. She is not in a friendly mood to me or Susan, however after a while she does finally warm up a bit, take part in conversation and make it just not retardedly awkward. Now me and Susan both drinking and all, Susan’s kids away for the night. Not to say the idea to sleep with Susan hadn’t crossed my mind, I am pretty certain she would we get along as well, and like I said..sorta bonded over the whole thing, but that just wasn't the plan for the evening. Well Beth does eventually leave…but then she just starts madly texting Susan..for like..the whole night. And I saw the messages, she was texting babbling, flipping, nonsense. Not so say she doesn’t do that from time to time, but not for hours at a time. I am relatively certain I was being * * * * * * * * * ed. Wow.

Since then Beth contacted me via another facebook game that Susan and I had started playing, directly stating that she wants to be friends. We have had a few text conversations, even one started by me [I almost completely let her initiate conversation]. At some point here Susan said something to someone, which ended up causing some trouble for X, and therefore for Beth. Beth took all her stuff out of Susans place and was very, very, shaken up about it all. She spent the whole night after this went down texting me about it and this and that. Not just nice guy therapy this time, but I was actually taking the place of Susan in this instance. A few days later I am out in a nearby town, enjoying the gentle rolling of the sea, having a coffee with Susan. Susan told me what it was all about, and honestly it was nothing. Something which someone [I am pretty sure the only person in the world….], who dislikes Beth, twisted and contorted. Like possibly Susan should not have said it, but really, it was no big deal. However X jumped allllll over it. He cannot manipulate and control Susan in any way, so he hates her. He took this chance to denounce Susan as scum and a bad friend, and basically put, Beth is not allowed to hang around with Susan these days.

Well while we are hanging out Beth texts asking where we are, and we chat back and forth all night. At one point I ask her what she is up to, and she replies with ‘facebooking’. She hates facebook. Well doesn’t hate, but she doesn’t facebook, she plays a couple games that’s about it. I fail….yet again..me and Susan were playing wii Mario. Beth is totally Super Mario Bros age, and she definitely really wanted to be there, I am sure. Of course I didn’t invite her, even though Susan definitely woulda bin cool with it. Granted she would likely not have come, but it would have made visible the control she is under. Also possibly worth note, the morning after our big text session about the ‘Susan’ thing, she texted me first thing in the morning, basically saying, 8am grr. She is not a morning person, nor am I [I was quite asleep for this text], I kinda take that as to her assent that she does not want to be gotten up by X at this time everyday. Who knows.

So that is pretty much where things stand. And I am lost.



So here is what I know-

This girl is trying awfully hard to keep me interested. If it were not for this I am fairly certain I would not still be on this whole mission, despite what I see.
I truly believe that she is not lying when she says, repeatedly, that she wants a relationship with me.
I have never ‘said my stuff’
I have rarely if ever, ‘manned up’ She has mostly only seen my nice, kinda patient side. This is unfortunate as she really needs to see my passionate, driven, decisive side.
I am at a point where, odd as it sounds, and not related to my hatred of X. I am at the point where even if things were to not work out in my favour, if she would just be forever rid of him, I would take some happiness in her happiness? I guess that means something, which just makes it more sad I think.
When I am direct and well…a ‘man’ about things- the times I am thinking about are when I demanded my rebound chat, when I told her to leave me along, and when I told her to stop being silly and we became friends, I got results.
Unless I do something very drastic, that name, Beth, will appear upon my phone once more, and no matter how out of it I am, barring another girl actually catching my interest, I will get sucked right back in.
One day she is gonna wake up, blink twice and realize what she has missed.



Here is what I think-

She does want out of this abusive relationship.
It really seems as though she wants me to in some way rescue her. I have not done a terribly good job of illustrating why, but here is another example. Playing scrabble over our phones, she starts a new game. Her first word is ‘seethe’ or something negative. Her second word was ‘help’. Her third word…oh wait..no third word. Odd, I think so.
The only thing I have ever heard her say negatively about me is that she normal does not date blonde guys. I don’t think this is a dealbreaker
2 issues I believe she has with me [and I do have reasoning but I don’t think I need to elaborate], are:

- She thinks I am not decisive. This is due to a joke I made on our first date, and subsequent action. It is ironic because I am actually horribly decisive, I just need to care about the decision. Where to go for dinner. Yep just don’t care. Something important, plenty of input, I have. She is one of those girls who like to be told what to do. This is yet another reason why I think we will work out well. I am a Leo, my ‘pride’ has to be well. The decisions I make where she will not,would be ones which I believe would benefit her. It is just how I roll, maybe its bad, but I think its actually pretty ok. She is selfless, and I am as well to a degree.

- That saying, use it or lose it. It is damn true. Not having slept with anyone in a long time before her, ya I lost it, I lost it bad. She indicated this in passing one night while we were chatting while she was drinking. It is horribly annoying though because I still did alright, just not nearly as alright as I should have. Sadly this is just a time and practice thing, I used to be pretty good [in that I always got results] at that stuff before, so I know this is not really an issue, but I think it really is to her, possibly a large part of why she wouldn’t sleep with me that night we were drinking, that she feels she has to fall for me some first or my lack of skill in the matter will further be an issue. I likely sound retarded here but I think it's really a factor, and it doesn’t even need to be. We are both passionate people, passion feeds on passion, once the walls come down, I am sure it would be quite an experience…/shrug

So..what to do.

Well I definitely need to say my stuff, but what to say. I know I definitely need to make it clear why I am still chasing her, that I will not continue to do so forever. Do I get into a discussion about X and what exactly he is. I know Susan and her couple other friends have already gone over it with her, but as she is definitely my friend, I kinda have an obligation to say something. When my friends are in distress, action must be taken if it can be, that’s how I am. How far can I go? Again if I become the enemy for a time, that is just how it is.

Now the thing about this, she has to come to me. This is unfortunate because I think Susan pointed out to her how she was running to me everytime X was a jerk, and maybe it has stopped. However I think it will resume. If I just ‘kidnap’ her after work or whatnot, however I believe this would make her simply retreat into her head and glaze over my words. She needs to be receptive.

Another thing that I would like to note before I close is my overall experience as what I have referred to as ‘nice guy therapy’. I have been this for at least a dozen girls over the years. Basically their bf is being a twit and they seem to want a nice guy to talk to, to have listen to them. Mostly I do not need to say anything, just listen. I tend to give generic advice such as ‘follow your heart’ and stuff like that. Now overall this isn’t so horrible for me, and one thing I have specifically noted is that in these discussions, even though 95% of what they say about their bf is negative, there is always that 5% of something good to say.

Beth has never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever [am I clear yet?] said a single solitary good thing about this guy. Not once and I have heard her go on about him for hours and hours.

I suppose another possibility is simply just be her friend, I really think she needs one. This however is not something that is a sustainable activity, as putting myself through that would be a trial, as it already is. If she actually is a proper friend then there is always that possibility that that is how she ultimately falls for me. As whimsical as this sounds, I suppose it does have some merit.

Another thing I know I can do, and absolutely should do for completely different reasons is date. Who knows maybe I will find another Beth, I will certainly gain some experience and lose some frustration, and feed that jealousy all at once. I guess that side of it seems kinda of scummy, but all is fair....? [and as it is an inavoidable byproduct of something I really should be doing anyways?].

The next option I have, is a little more insidious I suppose. I guess its actually a little ironic if you knew more of the backstory [which I do not think is an issue here so I have omitted it completely]. I have been hanging out with Susan alot lately, and find myself...desiring her. Now I know that she is not someone I would enter a serious relationship with, but she is someone that I think I could work out a beneficial situation with. I find myself wanting this alot lately, and I think for the 'right' reasons, more than the following. This would have a huge effect on Beth. I don't honestly think it would cause me any problems on that front, but she would definitely get very jealous, maybe even enough for her to realize why. I honestly dislike even thinking about this aspect of it, but I do look at the big picture, and this is part of it. Now there are a few pitfalls to this option, potentially. First and foremost, there is a chance that it may damage their friendship. While honestly as long as it was just casual I really doubt this, but if Susan got into it to much then it could be bad news. Furthermore, if I do not approach the subject properly, or if it just goes sour in general then I risk losing my friendship and an ally in Susan.

All in all, my head is kinda a mess, I am very frustrated, on a few different levels. I have put a lot of time into this, and have been beyond patient, which is a trial in itself for me. I have maybe a sense of what I should do, but I suppose it is more a question of how much to say, and a bit of how to say it. One thing I will state now is that the likelihood of simply dropping this is slim to none. I understand that that is likely what I should do, but at this point I certainly owe it to myself to try, and of course, I have never met a girl I liked this much, by a long shot.

So anyways, thanks very much for reading you few who reached the end. Hope I told an ok story and hope even more someone can provide for me some words of wisdom!

Tl;dr.....