A bit long, but would really appreciate the help

I want to preeminently apologize for the length of this particular post, but I feel that in order to adequately get the best help in this particular situation, lengthy explanation is going to be the best option. So I want to thank the people, in advance, who are able to offer me any sort of consolation or advice on how to handle the situation after reading the whole thing. I also apologize if, at points, the thought lines seem a bit scattered or tangential; this is also partially a bit of a vent.
I am a professional ballet dancer. I recently (about 4 months back) moved from North Carolina to Las Vegas for a new job, as the life of a dancer is a rather transient one. Over the summer I had been messing around, being a single guy and enjoying the season of overactive hormones and being around ballerinas as I was teaching in ballet summer intensives and choreographing around the country. Needless to say, I started to scope out some of females who were going to be in the new company i was in and I remembered one in particular, that I had met when I went to audition some months prior. I added her on facebook and needless to say we began talking. I also added a few others on facebook and was talking to them as well; I thought being single I might as well play the field in my new home (hindsight, not my best move). I met this particular girl (the one I remembered from my audition), lets call her Erin for name purposes, when I finally moved out to Las Vegas in late August. I had also been talking to another girl in the company, lets call her Ashley, as well but she had yet to arrive in Las Vegas.
Now Erin had been here for a few years in the company and is an amazing dancer. However, for those of you who have ever seen Black Swan, she was very much in a Natalie Portman scenario. She is the daughter of a very overly-protective "dance mom". Now I need to explain a certain breed of "dance moms" to those unfamiliar with the lingo or the world of professional ballet. In ballet there are international competitions in which scouts from the major ballet companies come to recruit medalists from these circuits into some of the most prestigious companies in the world. "Erin" had won one of these competitions and had been, her entire life, doted on by this mother. She comes from a particularly heavy Christian background (as a lot of these kids do) and the mother had kept her homeschooled. Erin has little to no social skills as a result of this, is constantly coddled even being almost 21, and literally has never been grocery shopping by herself or been on a vacation in her life that was not ballet-related. Needless to say that sexual inexperience was a given, and the boys who she did "date" they never did anything either than hold hands or they turned out to be gay. I had heard things from other ballet friends about this girl and her mother before i even got to the new job (being that the ballet world is so interconnected).

I finally met her face to face at a starbucks close to work when I got to Vegas. I fell in love instantaneously....

It seemed literally too good to be true, we would hang out by ourselves and jut go on little dates or to the movies or go walking or watch a movie and I had never felt this way. I am very sexually experienced myself and am 4 years older with a lot more life experiences under my belt so it seemed unbelievable to me that I was falling in love with this girl. However, I did not tie myself down right away and told myself that "until I knew" I would have some fun seeing other people as well. So I had met some people from online and I was also still talking to "Ashley" at that point and she would flirt with me as well in the workplace, although at that moment I was still (technically) keeping everyone at a "friend zone" distance.

Now I need to elaborate a little more on "Erin". She is what we call a "trainee" in the company, even though she has better technique and execution than most other dancers in the company. She is a 3rd year trainee in a two year program....our director does like her but he is a very harsh man and will not hire her as well because she has a diagnosed short term memory issue. She literally cannot remember choreography....which is the ONLY job of a professional dancer. So even though her technique is FAR above the required level for employment; the fact that she has this issue is one of the reasons why she is not getting hired as a full member, another being that, since she has been so coddled, she does not know how to be a mature or intelligent dancer when it comes to her work approach. Her training was for these competitions her entire life and she does not know how dance "on the music" or "emote"; it was all about the tricks...and that is not what our director is looking for. Additionally, she is one of those girls who is so desperate to please our director that she literally overworks herself to ridiculous degrees and does not understand that instead of doing more steps, she needs to focus on doing the RIGHT steps and executing them CORRECTLY and REMEMBERING the choreography for big shows that she may be cast as a lead role in. Its kind of like being promoted to a senior position of a major corporation and forgetting how to do your job.

Now I continued to hang out with Erin and Ashley, among others, but those were the two main ones. I finally met the mother, as she is from California and is there every 3 days (driving from Cali to Vegas that is) to see Erin and be there and take care of her, while simultaneously uprooting her other two adopted children (one special needs and another with Liver cancer and Hep C from drug addict parents) to come and be with Erin (now I think thats a bit unfair to the other children, especially since their medical conditions are going to prevent them to extent from establishing any sort of social circles in their home state, while the their involuntary transitory lifestyle (and home-schooled lifestyle (not saying all home-schooled children are like this)) further destroys that establishment...and it seems like Erin is favored over them) Anyway...

So I met the mom (and the whole family), and I could tell everything that my other friends had said about her was true...this woman was crazy. However, I was able to keep cool and respect her and we went out to dinner. The conversations were "Oh Erin this Erin that" "We spent 250,000$ on her dance education" "The company would be remiss if they didnt hire someone like Erin, who can do this many pirouettes and knows this person and that person" (it was literally wild...) Now I come from a bit of money myself, as do they, and they wanted to know what my parents did, so I told them, and then it became a competition (subtly) about how much her husband had made last year and where they have properties and this and that...Correction, I come from a lot of money...old money...and we dont talk about it because frankly its not anyone else's business (This is actually the first time Ive ever really said it explicitly). So I humored them and they liked me and everything was great. Erin and I continued to see each other every night and I sort of kept Ashley on the back burner (still a friend but not so much in the spotlight for anything serious to happen).

So like I said Erin is very sexually inexperienced as her conservative Christian upbringing and the fact that she has been so coddled has had her look at sex as something very scary. However, through our interaction, we did mess around, essentially doing everything but have sex because I told her "I will wait until we are officially established and have been for a while before we make that decision, I am okay with waiting" (which, surprisingly, I was and I'll be honest I've really never been okay when someone told me that until her).

I need to also say this which is an important piece of information to understand. Erin, as I mentioned earlier was a 3 year trainee in a two year program, which means that she should have been fired last year. She had begged to come back and our boss put her on a "half contract". Her technique is there, but he wants to see her rise to the occasion and get over her mental weaknesses and join the ranks of the company on every level: mentally and physically. So the first half of our season, currently, is her trial period. That she will be hired, post-Nutcracker in January as a full company member or not at all; she'll leave and not dance anymore. The reason why she's here in the first place at this company she told me was because "she and her mother" decided it was the best choice for her after she won her competition in Russia, when she had the opportunity to go to large companies and Europe and on the East coast. Keep in mind this akin to winning 100million dollars in the lottery and only wanting to collect enough to settle your credit card debt... So what that really means is "her mother being over-protective and wanting to keep her little girl close, will force her to not live to her fullest potential when she has a golden ticket to do ANYTHING in this industry, and her girl being too naive to realize her mother is holding her back from greatness" I digress...We will refer to the hiring post Nutcracker as the "January rule": that she will not establish anything "official" with me until she has a signed full company contract in January.

So here is when things started to go downhill. One day Erin and I were sitting on her couch after work watching some movie and she gets a call from her mother (from California) and she goes into her room for like an hour while Im waiting out in the living room and she comes back out upset. "We cant be in the house a lone together we have to leave if we're going to be hanging out", she says to me. "Okay that's fine" I reply "do you want to go to my place and maybe go swimming or something"? she then says no we cant do that either "my mother does not want me to be alone with you behind closed doors, but we can go out somewhere"...Now I understand this. Her mother is wary and extremely overprotective so I can understand where she is coming from, however, I dont care how immature your daughter is...I'm 24 years old, and I wouldn't let MY OWN mother dictate how I spend time with a significant other, let alone someone who has no blood tie to me and is also 250 miles away in California. Personally I dont think that parents should be intrinsically involved in their children's relationships: it's pretty invasive and weird. Also I'm not into the idea of a menage a trois with your mother...not so attractive. So I tell Erin I need to leave, I'm not upset I just need time to cool down but I will continue to spend time with you another night; that I DO care about you and since it is important that I respect your mother's wishes (irrational and crazy as they may be) I will acquiesce to her request and do that, although I need to cool down now because I was heated. So I went back home and hung out and realized to myself "oh this might be awkward at work tomorrow", since I felt a weird energy before I left. So I called Erin to make sure there wouldnt be any weird energy; she didnt pick up...So I went to bed.

The next day, like I thought, there was an awkward scenario, where there was very little said, and when I asked her about it, she kept saying...I dont want to talk here...I can't (keep in mind I have no idea what happened the previous day for the reason of the phone call and everything but I tried to get a bit more out of her and her to open up and communicate; didnt work) Who would've thought that a girl with no social skills didnt know how to talk to people....lol (btw I believe that communication is the key to solving issues in a relationship so, texting and facebook message doesnt do it for me to solve issues, you either talk to me on the phone or face to face...I'm not 12 and I wont deal with people who act like it) So that night I call her a bunch of times (probably like 16 times) and she wouldnt pick up...but she would text me...I kept saying "please pick up, I just want to talk I need like 5 minutes to just ask what the hell is happening and why you and and your mom are acting this way. I really care about you and I want to just figure this out...so can you call me and just talk to me on the phone? I could even come over for a bit and we can talk it out" She kept saying that she had to wait til January...that her mom was thinking she was being vulgar with her body in physical interaction with me...(us cuddling on the couch watching a movie...pretty normal thing to do) So I facebook messaged the mother to clarify anything that was misconstrued in our relationship and to relay my good intentions. I was extremely polite and told her that I honestly do care about your daughter, I'm not going to hurt her, and you can trust that I am on your side wanting to have your daughter here for the better portion of her career as well. I received a scathing message in which, my physical well-being was actually threatened. "Erin wants to get her contract and you causing all this drama is distracting her. She wants you to move on to someone else who can handle your drama"...I stayed very polite and said "I wont bother her again if thats what she legitimately wants". I tried contacting Erin but she would not respond to text or call (I later find out the mother was at the house and prompting her to not respond to me...)

So needless to say I start hanging out with Ashley...upon the wishes of "Erin" (her mother actually), as I couldnt get Erin to communicate with me to tell me about what she really wanted...although the longing eyes and the stolen glaces at each other in the studio space never ever left. It was as if we both knew that her mother was keeping us apart and running her life. But I had to keep my distance, for fear of having my job compromised or legal ramifications (unjustified as I never did anything harassing or threatening) possibly ensuing. Ashley and I began sleeping together about a week later and later became involved in a relationship...Although I still thought about Erin ever day, but we could never speak to each other even though we wanted to.

I had been choreographing for a company repertoire showcase that was being showcased out of the Mystere theatre at Treasure Island, which was the first thing on our season schedule. My piece opened the show and while we were in the theatre, Erin began to talk to me again (still no texts) but I kept my distance a bit (for fear of her mother and the fact that I was in a relationship). However, I could not ignore my feelings of love for Erin and I would talk to her and stand with her at the barre for warmup. The relationship with Ashley was rocky (probably because she was my second choice in lieu of Erin..the underlying issue) so I gravitated towards her again, flirting and being funny again. Needless to say Ashley grew very tired of that, although she legitimately loved me as well...Finally the silence between Erin and I broke when she texted me after the first showcase of the program and told me "I just wanted to say that my mom really loved your piece". I replied and I said "thank you that means alot...I still love you...and I know you still love me too".

We began talking and she admitted to still wanting to be with me and how she loved me. She then asked "so what is going on with you and Ashley, are you in a relationship?" We were rocky at that point so I "lied" and said no (for all intensive purposes I was waiting for this moment to happen and I always wanted to be with Erin anyway) I did tell her that she was "involved" and we had been seeing each other and sleeping with each other. This upset Erin because she thought that I was going to wait until January and not be with anyone. I told her that "I "was" with Ashley per your request...I know that wasnt really what you wanted but the only communication I got were the skewed words of your mother when I all I wanted was to talk to you. Additionally, when your mom threatened my well-being and said to move on to someone who could handle my drama, I generally took that to mean that the "January rule" was no longer in effect, to my understanding". So Erin and I began talking again and I told her since Ashley involved it will be difficult to break it off, but I will be completely out of it by the time you are ready in January and that is a promise...I just need to find a way to not hurt her as well because legitimate feelings are involved, partially from me, but a LOT from her. She told me she understood.

That day the mother asked to take me out to dinner, and I thought that things were going to be great, that the misunderstanding from a month ago had passed and that the drama was water under the bridge, so to speak. I was invited to parties on their invitation with important ballet names and theatre producers and I would take Erin out to dinner or a movie. Ashley and I were not "broken up" per se, but on a break, but still together...i dont know it was a very hazy gray area, needless to say she was always suspicious of Erin and I (rightfully so) but she didnt know specifically what was going on. I would leave Ashley in the company of our other dance friends to be with Erin at these parties (I can only imagine how that made Ashley feel when she was asked by our colleagues where I was and she had to reply "with Erin at a party") Erin and I went back to our ways of my coming over to her house, her mother present of course and spending time with them as a family, unbeknownst to Ashley. I did have to lie about where I was, while we technically weren't together, I still know that what I did was deceitful, to both parties. I was caught in a pickle...I have feelings for one more than the other, I grew to love elements of girl #2 when I couldnt be with girl #1 (although all of this would have been avoided if the mother didnt do what she did and imprisoned her daughter and ruined our potential relationship), but not I still care about Ashley too but I need time to make a decision about what to do. I legitimately didnt know what to do and this struggle continued for a while.

The mother started to act overbearing again and that was when i "turned back to Ashley". She was out with her girlfriends and I invited her over after I had stayed at Erin's house until about 1am with her and her mother of course. Ashley stayed the night and in the morning when I woke up to take a shower, she opened my computer and checked my facebook messages....and saw all of them to Erin...Shit hit the fan and she contacted Erin (really neither girl knew about the other in terms of the fullest extent of each relationship) She saw that we had been seeing each other (while Ashley and I technically weren't together) and she contacted Erin explaining to her that the real story was that "I had never officially broken up with her (Ashley) and that I was lying to both of them" (true to a certain extent but not entirely. At that point it was "fight or flight mode": I saw Ashley walking out my door, as I'm still in a towel and I get down on my knees and literally beg her to give me another chance: i didn't want to lose her. (What I later come to realize that day is that I didnt want to be with Ashley I just didnt want to be alone until I could be with Erin...I apologize for how terrible this sounds...I'm just being as honest as I can...I'm very insecure when it comes to having someone as a placeholder until I can have what I really want....I know that it so selfish) Long story short, because Ashley loves me and after much groveling, she gave me another chance. Erin unfriended me...

My heart was still with Erin. The next day I try to talk to her, she rearranges her spot at the barre and feng-shuis the entire studio (we have set barre spots that you dont take someone elses) So everyone knew you something was up when that happened. From Erin it was competition with Ashley, game on...she was a fiery little thing and would not talk to me no matter how hard i tried. I got my other buddies involved to try and talk to her but she kept giving them skewed stories (her mother's influence) on how the situation actually unfolded and how I only wanted sex from her. Needless to say I broke it off with Ashley, we parted amicably and I apologized for what I did but I told her that I could not be with her, truthfully when my heart was not totally there, but that I love her and maybe one day again we could be. She said she would like that because we really did fix our ends together.

Now I've been trying to talk to Erin...text had remained unanswered, my phone calls too. I finally got her about a week ago to call me after she had cooled down. Her mother had prompted her what to say "It's not that I dont think you're a good guy, its just we cant be together, you're just not the man I'm looking for..." I saw the words were laced with her mothers venom and influence and 2 hours later, I broke down that wall and she admitted that she was just hurt because the situation had never happened to her before and she's wary (rightfully so) but that she did love me and that come January she would give this the chance it deserved in the first place, to which I agreed. I thought everything was set. That was last Monday (we we're good and ready to give this the forgiving chance), Last Tuesday her mother showed up and she called me. The conversation was almost like her reading from a script, and I could hear the mom in the background. She said, I cant be with you we're too different, our faith is different (its not im a Christian as well) and other things that were, really, so far beyond her general understanding that it only could have come from a third party (i.e. her mother). The mother blocked my number and had Erin block me on Facebook also threatening to get authorities involved after I went over and rang her doorbell to talk to her and her mother face to face about the issue that happened and to explain my feelings.




WHERE IM AT NOW: Well now you know the story....this happened over the course of a few months and culminated in the end about 5 days ago. I love Erin and honestly, I didnt believe that love at first sight crap until I met her. We both love each other and we still look longingly at each other in the studio space, wanting everything to be okay. She wants to talk but the mom wont let her, we both still want this (ive heard it from the other dancers that she's told). Her birthday is December 10th and I got her a very nice gift that I might just mail to her along with a letter explaining everything, how i was confused about what I wanted, that I really dont love anyone as much as I love her, and I just want to get one conversation alone with the Mom so I can prove to them that its not about the sex...Its that I truly love her daughter and that I AM good for her, although I am capable of mistakes as we all are. My buddies are trying to help me get Erin back as well....

Please help me....what can I do? I am trying to be totally honest, if you have any questions that you need answering to help you make an informed piece of advice or game plan, I will be happy to provide the information. I really love her and I want her to see that and not be so jaded by her mother (help me convince the mother lol) and to see the big picture that I AM fighting FOR HER (shes never had that). Should I give her the gift and the letter too? I just need guidance right now. Thank you all so much.

*****If you made it this far reading, you are a champion thank you so much***

Had to post that in 3 different parts...that just took like an hour to type....thank you to all of you in advance

It's far too complicated in my opinion, because while many people have terrible parents, they stand up to them or move away, or drastically cut all ties, or they at least realise they have a problem and start seeing a therapist and look for solutions. Erin doesn't do any of these and she is a victim of her mother's total surrealistic domination to the point that if Erin was a minor, someone should call social services. Then she can only see a relationship with you under her mother's conditions, hence the 'january rule', can't think for herself yet and for this reason I doubt that you have a chance for a real relationship with her. She is probably lovely in many ways but having the capacity to think and decide for herself is a fundamental requisite in a partner, don't you think?

Ashley doesn't seem to fulfill you either, so maybe you should give yourself some time to find someone who really does. Good luck.

Thank you Valixy, its tough because when I would be with her by ourselves, she was a completely different person: seemingly ungoverned by her mother and free. She wants to badly to live a normal life, she constantly seeks attention from others in a cry for help almost, but she has so much potential. She is just scared to disappoint or go against her mother because, since she was so coddled, her mother was her support base and did everything for her. I know that I would be able to show her the brighter walks of life, that there is more than just ballet or church, that there are people in the world who are waiting for her to come and say hello and for her to become and even more wonderful person through those experiences. I know it is not my job to "fix" someone, but I love the girl and I see so much potential within her.

Over-bearing mothers are not uncommon in the life of dancers and performers in general; these parents often invest a lot of time/money into their 'star' child and get very, very antsy when something comes along that might threaten their child's priorities.

Erin is naive and sheltered, sure. But none of us are perfect - your own inability to be single for 5 minutes might also be a product of your upbringing or something of that nature. I can understand you tutrning to Ashley when you were basically threatened by Erin/her mother...but I can't validate you begging for Ashley to stay with you just so you could dump her at your convenience in January. That's a very nasty move and makes me wonder if Erin's mother was right to warn her daughter about you...

Either way. You need to assess things. Erin's mother is going anywhere - the onus is on Erin to grow up and put a stop to the interfering. She might not be ready to do this, though. She might not be in the right place for any relationship. Are you chasing her because she's unavailable - that apple dangling from a branch that is just out of reach...or do you genuinely love her?

If it's the latter - then do send her the gift, along with a letter, perhaps, explaining everything - making your intentions known. Something honest and heartfelt, not just words strung together that sound nice. Then, it's up to her.

I had over-protective parents too - my mum was against me seeing my first partner but I was in the right emotional state to do what I wanted, even if it did mean world-war III between my mum and I. Erin might not be ready for that. Maybe she can't handle the distraction or the drama, who knows. But what's for sure if that while she is chained to her mothers expectations/demands, there can be no relationship between the both of you.

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Originally Posted by allegro89 [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

I know that I would be able to show her the brighter walks of life, that there is more than just ballet or church, that there are people in the world who are waiting for her to come and say hello and for her to become and even more wonderful person through those experiences. I know it is not my job to "fix" someone, but I love the girl and I see so much potential within her.

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That's really wonderful, but in order to reach the stage you describe, Erin needs to clarify her relationship with her mother, become independent even if this meant losing some privileges or at least establish some boundaries. You can't and should never 'fight' her mother for her or they could both easily resent you. By the way, you've proved a lot approaching her mother like you did until now and I think that you can only hope that she will finally back off a little or that Erin will be capable to take the first steps alone, as she should. Whatever turn her dancing career will take in January, you'll probably be able to see more clearly if you two could indeed have a relationship.

We've had some impressive postings this year and I"m grateful to all of the posters. Whether you're trying to get 'The most boring post' or 'The worst spelling/grammar award'. I think this new guy here has set his sights on 'The longest ****ing post we've ever read' award and I think he might be in with a chance. Excellent work dude.
On a strictly personal note I'm impressed but have just one teeny tiny question. Since you seem to have dedicated your life to telling us every little ****ing single detail how do you find time to do other things - eat, sleep, whack off? Just curious.