answering questions from my old post- wife stepping up or me initiating the big D

"Pigpen, you will have to look at WHY she's this way."

I have tried. Counseling, asking her to get counseling, hours of talking things through. 15 years together

"If she was a slob, poor eater, messy etc when you met her, there's no reason to expect that she would change. You married a lazy woman and she's still lazy. It's not going to change. I guess you could try marriage counselling, but it's very hard for a leopard to change it's spots."

She WAS very sloppy (at keeping house), we ate out all the time, etc. from DAY ONE. I tried to tell her to take a walk, especially when she was acting like a nutjob by calling me 15 times in a row when we first knew each other (the stupid fights were also from the beginning). These fights were/are always a critcism of me not caring, not respecting that she doesn't like something (i.e. my whistling hurts her ears, and me picking my cuticles bothers her)

"However, if her housekeeping is on a downward trajectory, I'm wondering if she's dealing with depression (or other mental illness). The lack of motivation to cook and do the domestic things you describe could easily be due to a psychological issue."

I think she definitely is somewhat mental, if not MORE than somewhat. I get it that she despises cooking, she told me that plainly. I don't really enjoy working, but I DO IT because I am a responsible Dad and breadwinner for my family.

"Perhaps she's resentful about being a stay at home mom and would rather work? If so, perhaps she'd better off working and having a housekeeper."

She thoroughly enjoys being there at home, being a class mom for the kids' school, and spending time with them. So not resentful at all that I can detect or have heard from her.

"Anyway, if things have gotten worse progressively, you need to ask her about it. When you do ask, you need to avoid the question of "why?" As in "why didn't you do X?" Instead, talk about how she's feeling about motherhood and domestics. Thing is, it's often very hard to know why we do something - but it's much easier to identify how we feel about it. If she tells you how she feels (overwhelmed/bored/isolated/depressed/etc/etc) DON'T argue with how she feels. Her feelings are legitimate even if you don't agree or understand. Acknowledge how she feels and use those feelings to try and figure out a way forward. Those feelings will give you a clue as to what kind of help to seek."

the most difficult part! She has stated numerous times that she feels overwhelmed; I've suggested keeping on top of stuff such as putting soda cans in the recycle, cleaning dishes right after use, regular straightening, so things aren't out of hand or get blown up to the point they are too large a task to do in our available time. Yet I continue to come home from my long days to mail and papers on the table, stuff around, laundry in living room waiting for put away (she does have a laundry room to work in), etc., etc.


"Hmm...I fired off that answer too quickly.

Some more questions:

When you speak about this with her, what do you say? And what does she say back to you?"

I say "I'd like you to advance plan the week's meals...please look stuff up online, or in one of your many cookbooks"
or just "what did you have in mind for dinner?" either in a cute way or regular.
One of her main things she replies is "didn't take anything out of freezer", or "I have chicken out"

When you get home from work, what do you do during the evening?

Most days I come home to her watching TV...I grab a snack and join her there for probably an hour. Then I sometimes do a task or occasionally make calls or go into the garage or out in the yard to do something. And this is after my 11 hour day of an hour and a half commute on a train that rocks like a boat on water, home from my physically demanding job.

Does she know how to cook healthy meals? I'd have to say NO. What was her role modelling growing up? Spoiled rotten.

Also, I noticed that you mentioned about the dishes being left unwashed for days. So it would seem to me that you're not at all pro active about saying "hey, let's go and do the dishes together". No, I'm guilty as charged here.

Now, I'm also a stay at home mum too, but my husband would always come and help me clear the kitchen. It's a rotten job and is much more pleasant if we do it together. Likewise, if he's in the room when I'm making the bed, he will always help me. If he's watching the cricket on TV, he might offer to do a load of ironing for me. Or if I'm making a meal our son won't eat, he may cook for our son so that I don't have to do two meals. In short, how do you help out at home?

I do some repairs and set the table, throw out garbage, stuff like that. I could do more of these kind of things, it is true and I am aware of that.

Also, I'm guessing your sex life is non-existent. Would I be right? It's there, we go through some phases of doing stuff, then not doing anything.
Reply 2:
B&T pegged on everything I was wondering and I couldn't add more really.

I do believe she needs to see a Dr. This does sound like depression of sorts. yes, I agree. Even if we don't stay together, she will continue doing these dysfunctional things, affecting our boys 9 and 7. I see other women (friend's wives, for example), I'm not sure if it's their "public" demeanor- but a bunch seem happier than my spouse in general. Like I said, she was a certain way before we met- worked a lot, not too social. I am the complete opposite. I WAS very outward and animated. Still am to a point, but I'm 43 now and somewhat jaded to people. And ALWAYS, if I don't feel like something, it basically won't be done, etc. I don't do stuff for spite, least I don't think I do. The social thing with me is that I really don't like small talk or phony stuff. I'd sooner avoid contact and I am happy being totally by myself whenever. What is weird is that I'm outward though, love to talk (to an interesting person, lady, etc.), and I would go to do things out like a water park, beach, etc. She isn't like that. I feel mismatched. She is 41. We are young, I think even with our kids, if we split now we could be happier in a different light or situation.

"I'll also say, if your two boys are fairly messy or in their teens or approaching them, that'll create allot of instant messes hard to keep on top of."

They aren't too messy.