A question for women: what things related to sex do you find to be too slutty?

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Originally Posted by vashti [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Wow, you make it sound like all those stereotypes about Army guys being dumber than dirt are true.

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Actually he wasn't stupid that's the problem, he was an intelligent, decent guy and a decorated soldier. Sex has all sorts of effects on how people relate to each other and this was just one example. The way he saw it no woman could inspire the confidence in him that he'd obey her as a superior.

Part of it was down to the whole well rehearsed argument of female physiology(basically a penis is regarded as essential equipment for an infantry soldier) and part of it he as he admitted is that he saw female role in sex as being the taker rather than the giver so to speak, and that affected the way he viewed women.

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Originally Posted by sarah_rsl [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Actually he wasn't stupid that's the problem, he was an intelligent, decent guy and a decorated soldier. Sex has all sorts of effects on how people relate to each other and this was just one example. The way he saw it no woman could inspire the confidence in him that he'd obey her as a superior.

Part of it was down to the whole well rehearsed argument of female physiology(basically a penis is regarded as essential equipment for an infantry soldier) and part of it he as he admitted is that he saw female role in sex as being the taker rather than the giver so to speak, and that affected the way he viewed women.

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The problem is, every sexual act which involves penetration can be seen as an act of power, and yes, that includes vaginal sex. Men have a higher tendency to feel jealous when they know their partner has had sex with someone else because their primal instincts kick in and they feel "weakened".

It's also cultural: I see more often "he ****ed her" than "she ****ed him" which indicates that women are (even if just subconsciously) considered to have a passive, submissive role. In male homosexual relationship, the penetrated male is called "passive".

I personally think your friend is just being sexist, no offense. ;) What about taking orders from a guy who licks pussy? It's the same thing as a girl sucking a guy's dick. If you still disagree with me, take a look at the 69 sex position and tell me if it doesn't make things perfectly symmetrical.

Well, what happened with me was that, before I had sex with this girl, I had had sex with another woman around the same age range and she was infinitely more liberal about things and we had a marvellous time together. She also accepted the idea of casual sex in a much better way (we both said to each other this was just sex). I then generalised and thought the other girl would be the same, but it turned out she was overly conservative (even though she acted like she wasn't) and the only thing she did well on bed was talking dirty.

Oh and thanks for all the input, ladies! ;)

I think most men who view women as inferior have a problem that has less to do with how they view sex and more to do with respect. Women can develop respect for each other... but it's not nearly as important for them as it is for men. With men, whether it be in the workplace, out with friends, or just a group of guys who really don't know each other... there is an instinct to 'sort out the ranks.' Women have a much, much vaguer sense of this.

Since most women do not understand or partake in this instinctual 'assigning of roles' with men, most men have a tendency to either place women outside of it or some will view women as being inferior to men. This isn't something that men are necessarily aware of, but if you watch them for any length of time... the social dynamics will show you who is the 'main guy' - the one with the most respect... and who is the 'lowest guy' - the one that everybody doesn't respect or even really listen to. All the other guys will proportionally respect/disrespect each other in differing amounts.

If women are viewed outside of this, then men will try to ascertain a woman's value based on what level of respect she has for him and herself. Should he find she has no respect for men or herself... then she is of low value to him. If he continues to find this in more and more women (or believes what he hears from others about it), then he will make the judgment that most women must be of low quality to men... inferior. This is usually how men begin to place women as lower than men.

However, it is possible for a woman to earn respect from a man on this more instinctual level. Self-respect for oneself is usually a quality that most men can understand and appreciate. Willing to give respect to others who have earned it is another quality that men can appreciate too. So during sex, a woman who clearly shows the boundaries of what she will and will not do, and gently explains why will be viewed by a man has having a sense of self-respect in this area of life. A woman who could care less... anything goes, and seems to not care about herself at all... is less likely to be viewed as having a sense of self-respect and will not be appreciated by a man - not really (possibly pitied.. but not respected). A woman who listens to what a man will and will not do during sex is viewed as being respectful toward him... unlike a woman who shows disregard by wanting him to do things he doesn't like. She is also viewed as respectful if she listens to what he likes and doesn't like... and on occasion is thoughtful enough to do some of these things he likes(even if she personally does not like them).

Essentially I think sluttiness and perceived inferiority of the female gender has more to do with respect than simply face-value or misconstrued notions. Even from a chauvinistic pig, respect can be earned by a female.

I will never understand women who excuse misogyny. It's like excusing racism. Why bother with people like that? Life is too short to tolerate idiots.

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Originally Posted by vashti [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

I will never understand women who excuse misogyny.

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I'm not excusing anything... explaining, trying to understand--yes... but not excusing.

How can you possibly hope to discourage something like misogyny if you're not willing to try to understand it?

Aer - Hah, I was actually referring to Sarah. I didn't read your post in its entirety. It's too long. :D

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Originally Posted by vashti [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Aer - Hah, I was actually referring to Sarah. I didn't read your post in its entirety. It's too long. :D

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Phew... basically to summarize my post it's about how men judge women based on women's respect for themselves and others... both sexually and in other aspects of life... and if they view women as having no sense of respect this could lead to misogyny.

I couldn't date a girl who carried on with all that oral/degrading stuff. It's so silly.

All my girlfriends have all been into oral (which I've always reciprocated). The idea that it made me look on them as whores is laughable.

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Originally Posted by vashti [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

I will never understand women who excuse misogyny. It's like excusing racism. Why bother with people like that? Life is too short to tolerate idiots.

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Like I said The guy was offering up his own views, he wasn't looking for me to accept them but I asked how he viewed women in the infantry and he answered honestly. He's not an idiot for all his many faults he's a decorated soldier who I respect and admire. His comment was strictly in relation to women as infantry officers, which at the time was on the cards.

The problem is when you start assuming that everybody conforms to your values system, and you just don't have to bother with people that don't agree with you. I hope my post wasn't too long for you.

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Originally Posted by sarah_rsl [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

He's not an idiot for all his many faults he's a decorated soldier who I respect and admire.

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So you are primarily impressed that he was a decorated soldier? How does that make him not a misogynist? Anyway, Hitler was, also decorated. (Twice, I believe.) That didn't make him worthy of admiration.

Although you are certainly free to respect and admire someone who fundamentally dislikes women, I find your standards pretty odd.

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Originally Posted by vashti [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

So you are primarily impressed that he was a decorated soldier? How does that make him not a misogynist? Anyway, Hitler was, also decorated. (Twice, I believe.) That didn't make him worthy of admiration.

Although you are certainly free to respect and admire someone who fundamentally dislikes women, I find your standards pretty odd.

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I know you like baiting people so I shouldn't really bite. Your Hitler comparison doesn't even manage to be offensive as it just fails the stupidity hurdle.

When people use terms like mysogyny they have in mind some frothing at the mouth caveman type. In reality the situation I've described was a little bit more nuanced. (I described the circumstances and the man in my post, but it was quite long so you probably didn't make it to the end). You're making hysterical pronouncements on what you suppose are moral certainties because you know you'll never have to put those views into practice. I've found the more people are so certain in their own opinions the less likely they've ever put themselves in situations where those opinions have been tested.

When you encounter people like that in the military you need to adjust yourself to your surroundings. Sure a lot of women in the military got hysterical stamped their foot and demanded to play at being infantry soldiers, others simply got on with their jobs and tried to win the respect of male soldiers in an organisation they loved.

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Originally Posted by sarah_rsl [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Okay I'll try, well sometimes people before they do something sexual or otherwise... well they think about it. They ask themselves questions like will I regret doing this later, does it contradict values I have, how is it going to affect the way this other person views me. So they use their intellect to make decisions.

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You mean the way you did? :surprised

I'd respect you more, Sarah, if there was more consistency in what you say. But right now, I find you simply hypocritical.

But, yes, there are ppl out there who think before they spread their legs.

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Originally Posted by sarah_rsl [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

I know you like baiting people so I shouldn't really bite. Your Hitler comparison doesn't even manage to be offensive as it just fails the stupidity hurdle.

When people use terms like mysogyny they have in mind some frothing at the mouth caveman type. In reality the situation I've described was a little bit more nuanced. (I described the circumstances and the man in my post, but it was quite long so you probably didn't make it to the end). You're making hysterical pronouncements on what you suppose are moral certainties because you know you'll never have to put those views into practice. I've found the more people are so certain in their own opinions the less likely they've ever put themselves in situations where those opinions have been tested.

When you encounter people like that in the military you need to adjust yourself to your surroundings. Sure a lot of women in the military got hysterical stamped their foot and demanded to play at being infantry soldiers, others simply got on with their jobs and tried to win the respect of male soldiers in an organisation they loved.

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Okay - So he's a misogynist with sugar on top. Whatever.
Feel free to try to earn his respect. I'd rather avoid people like him in favor of spending time with people who actually enjoy the opposite sex (be it male or female).

Sarah is just trying to sound more intelligent than she actually is. Its like she's trying to compensate for her previous sexual behaviour(and probably other things), or she's trying to emulate someone in her life. Probably her husband, based on her other posts.

Get real Sarah. Its clear from your posts you are struggling mentally, so I feel bad for you, but its also clear to everyone here you are full of shit. Your ersatz intellectual arguments just don't scan, sorry.

It would come across as far more real if your posts took the tone of "well, I used to be a slut, so I can speak from experience when I say that it is MUCH better that ppl think before they ****. I had to learn this the hard way."

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Originally Posted by sarah_rsl [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

When you encounter people like that in the military you need to adjust yourself to your surroundings. Sure a lot of women in the military got hysterical stamped their foot and demanded to play at being infantry soldiers, others simply got on with their jobs and tried to win the respect of male soldiers in an organisation they loved.

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Yes, in the military you do need to adjust to your surroundings, but not at the cost of changing who you fundamentally are. The military isn't about changing you into something you're not... it's about making the best out of what you already have. Changing you would be temporary and doomed to fail... this is known.

Quite a few of those women kind of deserved the 'hysterical' label... because, well, they were hysterical. But I noticed that MOST did not have that stigma.

You're suppose to get on with your job... I fail to see why one should be rewarded for what all the other soldiers are expected to do.

Winning the respect of the male soldiers can be a wonderful side effect of doing your job... but it's not something you really have to 'try' to do. Sounds like you weren't wanting their respect... you were simply wanting them to like you. Respect and liking are two different things. You can like someone and not respect them... and you can hate someone and still respect them.