"Nice Guys"

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14-07-05, 01:07 AM
RSK

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prodigal

RSK,

An interesting idea, but it worries me.

It's pretty sad... it's a case of what people would term "calling the kettle black", except this is used on the whole male population. I definitely see where you're coming from (a lot of guys I know, including some of my friends, think they are nice guys but really do some f-cked up things).

This sounds like a half joke/half serious theory, but in either case, I'm still offended because I feel as if I'm an exception to another stereotypical 'rule'. I can think of a few good analogies to compare your statements to: that everyone who does community service or charity work is doing it for self-interest (trying to get a good reputation, etc.), or even something more vulgar like all middle-easterners are terrorists. Being a bit of a cynic myself I must admit that it is true in many, maybe even most cases. But all of them? No.

Just like how every stereotype has exceptions (some more than others), so does your's. Maybe you've just had bad luck in the guys that you've met. Maybe it's this thought that taints your mind about every 'nice guy' you see. Maybe they really ARE nice. And on the flipside, there are also guys who are the opposite. Seem tough, mean, or bad ass on the outside but are really nice people.

Edit: Never mind, after re-reading the thread. Thought you were saying that about all nice guys, and it ends up you weren't. Sorry. Keeping up the post though just because it took a while to write.

now your a person talking with some sense! yes, i agree with you,

btw, a famous politician once said; not all muslims are terrorists, but all terrorsists are muslims (i don't want to get into this) - but i remembered it after reading your post - nice work - A!
14-07-05, 01:24 AM
LilBabyBat

What was described, is what happens when the "nice" guy goes for the drop dead gorgeous *****. Really if he were so "nice" he'd be interested in the nice girl who sits alone with freckles, braces and bad hair. But this so-called "nice" guy is too caught up in what the girl looks like, and so all he deserves is the mis-treatment from the *****, and that's all he will get untill he learn to look deeper than skin and stop thinking he is so nice when really all he is, is very shallow.
14-07-05, 01:28 AM
RSK

Quote:

Originally Posted by LilBabyBat

What was described, is what happens when the "nice" guy goes for the drop dead gorgeous *****. Really if he were so "nice" he'd be interested in the nice girl who sits alone with freckles, braces and bad hair. But this so-called "nice" guy is too caught up in what the girl looks like, and so all he deserves is the mis-treatment from the *****, and that's all he will get untill he learn to look deeper than skin and stop thinking he is so nice when really all he is, is very shallow.

YEAH! your with me! anyone else want to join our band wagon?
14-07-05, 01:36 AM
misombra

MY AIR CONDITIONER HAS BEEN FIXED!!! i'm alive I'M ALIIIIIIIIIIIIIVE HAHAHAHAHAH!!!

sorry cybog. yeah nice guys, sucks for them. lol.
14-07-05, 02:27 AM
nomas

Quote:

Originally Posted by LilBabyBat

What was described, is what happens when the "nice" guy goes for the drop dead gorgeous *****. Really if he were so "nice" he'd be interested in the nice girl who sits alone with freckles, braces and bad hair. But this so-called "nice" guy is too caught up in what the girl looks like, and so all he deserves is the mis-treatment from the *****, and that's all he will get untill he learn to look deeper than skin and stop thinking he is so nice when really all he is, is very shallow.

I also agree with this in some ways.

When you break it down, you decide where your best chances are and you take your chances or you submit to the consequences.

A lot of people whine about not getting attention from the opposite sex and are into the "nobody loves me" self pitty, when really they can get the attention if only s/he lowered his/her standards. Go for the chubby/unpopular/anti-socialites and you'll have a better chance to get attention.

You don't want to go for these types? Well then be more patient and wait to see if you get lucky with the really hot number..but don't cry about "not getting attention from anyone"...there are those who are willing to pay attention to you..but maybe here it is you who's on the rejecting side of the coin.
14-07-05, 02:36 AM
LilBabyBat

It's not about "lowering" your standards, it's about raising them.
This hot girl outlined in the original message is a horrible person, RAISE your standards and go for a good person, no matter what she looks like. If all "Mr. Nice" cares about is looks, then by all means let him pine over the ***** he's never gonna get.
14-07-05, 02:59 AM
shh!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prodigal

RSK,
I can think of a few good analogies to compare your statements to: that everyone who does community service or charity work is doing it for self-interest (trying to get a good reputation, etc.), or even something more vulgar like all middle-easterners are terrorists. Being a bit of a cynic myself I must admit that it is true in many, maybe even most cases. But all of them? No.

Everybody is motivated in part by self-interest. Why do you think people are religious? It is often because they have bought into the whole idea of some sort of punishment in the afterlife for which they are trying to avoid.

In the end, who cares what motivates good behavior, so long as it is good? We all benefit by it...
14-07-05, 03:08 AM
Illusional

ironically it's the nice guys that never have the balls to get into the girl's life other than just a friend.

raverboy
14-07-05, 03:10 AM
whitedragon20na

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illusional

ironically it's the nice guys that never have the balls to get into the girl's life other than just a friend.

raverboy

Oh dude, I've tried a hundred times and it worked once out of a bunch of attempts.
14-07-05, 03:33 AM
misombra

Quote:

Originally Posted by LilBabyBat

It's not about "lowering" your standards, it's about raising them.
This hot girl outlined in the original message is a horrible person, RAISE your standards and go for a good person, no matter what she looks like. If all "Mr. Nice" cares about is looks, then by all means let him pine over the ***** he's never gonna get.

i agree. also the likee most likely too have these so called "high standards" but you're right, they're not really high they're in fact lower standards.

a line in that story rang true, that most grow out of it eventually. i know i certainly have i was a nice guy hater when i was younger. now i'm all about the nice ones. and not those fake nice guys that'll trick you later either, i'm talking about the real ones.
14-07-05, 03:56 AM
Prodigal

Quote:

Originally Posted by shh!

Everybody is motivated in part by self-interest. Why do you think people are religious? It is often because they have bought into the whole idea of some sort of punishment in the afterlife for which they are trying to avoid.

In the end, who cares what motivates good behavior, so long as it is good? We all benefit by it...

I think it matters a lot. In the fake nice guy case, sure, they can be some nice guy on the outside, but it all boils over after a while. The motivation for good behavior is very important. In many cases, yes, I agree with you. Business is the perfect example of this. Lower prices, even though the motivation is to make more profit. Who cares about the motivation when everyone pays less, right?

But I think when it comes to more personal and serious feelings the motivation does start to matter. Yeah, sure, so someone is really nice to me, but I find out it's because they want to use me for some reason. I care about that, of course! I'm not going to think, "Oh, who cares if s/he is using me... she puts on a good facade of treating me well so it's all good".

It's not to say that people aren't motivated by self-interest, and that it is bad. Some self-interest is natural or even healthy. As for others, it's very depreciative.

Just like anybody, I think nice guys do have a bit of self-interest. But I don't think they are that way BECAUSE of self-interest, or at least primarily for it. It is the ones who are nice for reasons of self-interest that are the ones RSK was talking about: fake ones who are clever and try to use this to get what they want. Motivation for doing certain things really matters when it comes to situations like these.
14-07-05, 04:18 AM
shh!

If a nice guy is only nice because they want to use you, then they really aren't that nice, then, are they? They are simply manipulative. I'm talking about the people who are nice because it makes them feel good to be nice, or people who think it will buy them a ticket to heaven, or people who believe in karma, etc.
14-07-05, 04:31 AM
nomas

Quote:

Originally Posted by LilBabyBat

It's not about "lowering" your standards, it's about raising them.
This hot girl outlined in the original message is a horrible person, RAISE your standards and go for a good person, no matter what she looks like. If all "Mr. Nice" cares about is looks, then by all means let him pine over the ***** he's never gonna get.

Good call. My words were careless..this is the propper explanation.

Yet....

Physical beauty doesn't necessarily have a direct relationship to being either a good person or bad..

So one could say you're lowering your standards as far as what YOU want to see in the opposite sex. Doesn't have to be physical. Maybe you want someone who has an IQ of 150 and both of the girls you know who meet this quality don't care for you....maybe you can scale back five points and go for a 145'er.
15-07-05, 12:25 AM
Prodigal

Quote:

Originally Posted by shh!

If a nice guy is only nice because they want to use you, then they really aren't that nice, then, are they? They are simply manipulative. I'm talking about the people who are nice because it makes them feel good to be nice, or people who think it will buy them a ticket to heaven, or people who believe in karma, etc.

Here's another way to think of that: maybe these people you are talking about are kinda like the manipulative ones except not so severe. They're basically using the people they're being nice to for this ulterior source of 'fulfillment', which usually does involve religion.

Motivation here still matters, though. These are some of the people that (imo) taint things such as religion. They do all these nice things, but it's for the sake of the religion. It does come to selfishness... they think they are magically 'redeemed' for some selfless acts, but little heart comes from it. And if heart DOES come from it, most of the time it's from their heart in the religion, not anything truly eleemosynary. If religions didn't put charitable acts on such a high pedestal, most people wouldn't do any of it.

It really depends on what kind of person you are to determine whether you care about this or not. You're one of those that don't seem to care, because at least the good act is being done. I, on the other hand, believe even more in the reasoning behind the act. From some people I wouldn't even take acts if I had an idea of their motivation. Different perspectives but both valid, at least to me. The big difference is that you'll be satisfied a lot more than me. xD
15-07-05, 01:10 AM
shh!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prodigal

Here's another way to think of that: maybe these people you are talking about are kinda like the manipulative ones except not so severe. They're basically using the people they're being nice to for this ulterior source of 'fulfillment', which usually does involve religion.

Motivation here still matters, though. These are some of the people that (imo) taint things such as religion. They do all these nice things, but it's for the sake of the religion. It does come to selfishness... they think they are magically 'redeemed' for some selfless acts, but little heart comes from it. And if heart DOES come from it, most of the time it's from their heart in the religion, not anything truly eleemosynary. If religions didn't put charitable acts on such a high pedestal, most people wouldn't do any of it.

It really depends on what kind of person you are to determine whether you care about this or not. You're one of those that don't seem to care, because at least the good act is being done. I, on the other hand, believe even more in the reasoning behind the act. From some people I wouldn't even take acts if I had an idea of their motivation. Different perspectives but both valid, at least to me. The big difference is that you'll be satisfied a lot more than me. xD

I understand what you are saying - I don't necessarily even disagree too much on a macro level, but I think you underestimate that some people are in fact, just simply kind by nature. I am not personally what I would consider kind by nature, but I am fairly generous (on a selective basis - I am not a sucker). I gain pleasure in being generous, but I expect nothing in return, and in fact prefer to give anonymously. Sometimes a kiss is just a kiss.

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