Girlfriend no longer interested in sex. At my wit's end.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ftm [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

I'm still planning to give us the summer to work things out. But if things haven't really changed by then I am absolutely history. I am not cut out for a sexless (or low-sex) relationship. It's not what I want. She's made it clear to me that she has some personal issues keeping her from offering me what I see as a fulfilling relationship. Maybe she needs to be alone to focus on those issues. I don't know.

---

i mean no offense by this, but i'm worried that you are eliciting some voluntary amnesia yourself ftm. you keep talking about sex, not getting sex, how you need sex...but what about everything else that is going on here? you were bending backwards for this girl and were never getting the appreciation you deserved. she would make excuse after excuse as to why she wasn't able to fulfill your sexual/intimacy needs, but went out and hooked up with another guy. then went on lying about the whole situation of who the guy was and her contact with him. i'm sorry to say this, but this girl is not in love with you. she loves the idea of you being there for her, supporting her while she's going through whatever shit she is going through, but you are definitely not the person that she sees herself being with for the rest of her life. she may love you, but most likely as a best friend, nothing more. you have been together for long enough that you are comfortable with each other and she is afraid to lose that. she is dragging you along because she has no idea what the hell she wants. she doesn't know what she wants and she isn't doing a damn thing to try to figure it out. she is afraid of leaving you because of having to start over, having to go through all that bullshit you have to go through in meeting someone new and dealing with the possibility of rejection. i'm sure the guy she hooked up with, was just that, a hook up, but the fact that she hooked up with him in the first place just shows that she is trying to sabotage the relationship. she wants out and is too afraid to end it because she doesn't know what will happen to her. sounds to me like she's going to therapy to appease you, to get you off her back. you seem like such a great guy who deserves someone who can actually see what you have to offer, and i'm feeling sick to my stomach thinking about how you are letting this girl manipulate you.

please please please for the love of god, DO NOT let this girl continue to control the relationship. if you are dead set on continuing through the summer you need to do the following... you need to lay down some ground rules on how things are going to go from this point forward. put your foot down. tell her that therapy is not enough. that she needs to be willing to talk to you about things and work them out. therapy is not the end of it, therapy should be a means to open up discussion. therapy is only a tool, not the cure. she needs to be willing to work on things with you before, during, and after therapy in order for anything to progress. she says school is causing her a lot of stress and is taking away her available time to be intimate with you? well if she had enough time to go and hook up with some guy at a bar late at night, she better have the time to schedule a night once a week for just the two of you, and let her know that your expectations that night are to bring back the spark and intimacy. since she betrayed your trust, she should be bending over backwards to earn it back, and i'm not getting that impression from how you are describing things.

you deserve better ftm, i hope she doesn't keep dragging you along, and i hope that you don't keep letting her. my hunch is that she has too much going on with school and everything else, that breaking up with you now would just be even more stressful for her. so she is going to drag this out as long as she can until it's most convenient for her to end it. and my biggest hunch is that it will be when she knows she has another guy lined up, that way she doesn't have to deal with any lonely transition. the relationship is going to end, i'm just crossing fingers that it will be of your doing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RdHrshyKss [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

i mean no offense by this, but i'm worried that you are eliciting some voluntary amnesia yourself ftm. you keep talking about sex, not getting sex, how you need sex...but what about everything else that is going on here? you were bending backwards for this girl and were never getting the appreciation you deserved. she would make excuse after excuse as to why she wasn't able to fulfill your sexual/intimacy needs, but went out and hooked up with another guy. then went on lying about the whole situation of who the guy was and her contact with him. i'm sorry to say this, but this girl is not in love with you. she loves the idea of you being there for her, supporting her while she's going through whatever shit she is going through, but you are definitely not the person that she sees herself being with for the rest of her life. she may love you, but most likely as a best friend, nothing more. you have been together for long enough that you are comfortable with each other and she is afraid to lose that. she is dragging you along because she has no idea what the hell she wants. she doesn't know what she wants and she isn't doing a damn thing to try to figure it out. she is afraid of leaving you because of having to start over, having to go through all that bullshit you have to go through in meeting someone new and dealing with the possibility of rejection.

---

I have brought this up with her several times. I have suspected for a while that she is confusing separation anxiety with the feeling of actually wanting to be with me. She has already plainly told me that "anxiety" is what prevents her from doing anything about our sex life most of the time, and many of our conversations just turn into her begging me not to leave her. So, everything you've written here comes from a place I've already been. Perhaps I do have amnesia. I don't know. In the end I try to focus on the things I like, the things I want. I try to focus on the best. Perhaps by ignoring my feelings and needs except when it's convenient for her (like when we've had a fight or I have raised things to enough of an emotional pitch) she's doing the same thing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RdHrshyKss [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

since she betrayed your trust, she should be bending over backwards to earn it back, and i'm not getting that impression from how you are describing things.

---

Oh, no, she isn't. She says she doesn't know what to do to get my trust back and has actually gone so far as to get frustrated with me for not supplying her with enough things to do. She behaves as if the burden is on me to give her "things to do" to get my trust back, like it's a freaking video game or something. I have told her that I don't have those answers, but a great place to start would be to put herself more fully into enhancing intimacy between us. This has occurred in fits and starts, but not in the way that it ought to considering the position that we are in. When I bring it up, she acts like I am being unreasonable. When we make a breakthrough and I can see her finally understanding things and willing to work on what I need her to work on, it all fades within a few days and soon she's acting like the conversation never happened.

Now she says she doesn't want to talk about sex or have it brought up before we go to bed "because it makes her anxious," which leaves it to me to bring it up spontaneously while she is doing homework or when we are preparing dinner, which is rarely met in a welcoming fashion. I also recently heard form her that when I put my hands on her it's "too sexual" and that she feels like I'm always wanting to pounce on her. So basically according to her the best thing for me to do is not express sexual attraction to her either verbally or physically. Then when I try to do that (which is hard) she asks me what is wrong and why I'm not behaving the same way.

I am getting a bad feeling about therapy. The therapist is focusing a lot on my parents' (non-sexual, non-passionate) relationship and the affect that he thinks it's had on me. I'm worried that this is going to turn into me being told that I have some sort of "problem" that needs fixing. I'm not a deviant, damnit!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RdHrshyKss [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

You deserve better ftm, i hope she doesn't keep dragging you along, and i hope that you don't keep letting her...

---

I won't. Not after the summer. I have one foot out the door. I have told her that I can't continue our relationship if it's going to continue as it has been for the past 14 months. If that's not enough to force a change, then I just have to go.

Maybe she doesn't think I have it in me. Who knows what she's really thinking. I'm not sure she even knows.

you're probably right, she has no idea what she wants...the problem is that her "anxiety" issues are preventing her from doing anything about it. she would rather ignore the issues and do as much as possible (even go so far as to project it onto you and make you feel like it's your fault!) so that she doesn't have to deal with them. it's definitely not fair for you to have to deal with this. i've been in a relationship for 4 years and we went through the same thing, my sex drive/interest decreased a lot. the honeymoon phase was over and my insecurities began to surface. i'm going to be honest and say that my bf doesn't bend over backwards for me as you do/did for her, and maybe that is what helped force me to realize what the hell my problem was. i would tell him that i didn't like the pressure of him bringing up sex and how he wasn't getting it enough and that if he stopped pressuring and asking that i would initiate it. i truly thought that that was the problem, tried to convince myself that that was the problem because it had an easy solution, but in the end it was definitely not the reason. he became more and more distant from me and resentful because he didn't see the point in going out of his way for me when i wasn't reciprocating with anything. now when that started to happen, his advances stopped and that in itself made me feel even shittier. it's a horrible cycle that develops when denial is playing tricks on you. i think all the things you have done for her have provided a cushioning, it has given her the control and the warped idea that you will always be there and that she has time. she is avoiding things because the only way to solve anything is to look deep down inside of her and she is probably scared of what she might realize (whether it be unpleasant things about herself that will screw up her view of herself, or that you aren't the right guy for her and that she has to completely start over with someone else).

now i'm still with my bf, and i'm going to say that it's not easy. but the only reason things are gradually getting better is because i am actually analyzing myself and what i've brought to the relationship and what i should be bringing. my boyfriend was not as lenient as you, he put his foot down as i said you should. it definitely created some backlash, and my first instinct was to fight it, but he stood his ground. it made me realize that i truly do love him, want to be with him and am sick of playing games. i was forced to acknowledge my own issues and actively work on them. we are still actively working on this, and neither of us have thrown out the idea that we just might not be compatible, but because we both love each other we decided that putting forth a little more time to see if things get better was worth a shot. i'm sure that this is the same outlook you have right now, but i fear that your efforts will be worth nothing unless she is in it with you and it doesn't sound like she is. i think doing what my bf did is the only way you will figure out if she truly loves you or not.

i really do wish you the best, you deserve a great girl. and your girlfriend is really lucky to have found a guy like you who is willing to do almost anything to make things work. it's too bad that she is too caught up in her own interests that she doesn't realize that or appreciate it. but stick to your guns, if things aren't working out after the summer, get the hell out of there. and please do not get tricked. it might be highly likely that come the end of the summer she might start coming around, but it will most likely be to get you to stay with her. if she will go to any length to avoid looking deep into herself, i have a feeling she will drag this out until she finds someone else to take your place, someone new and fresh who won't know anything about her. she'll go through the honeymoon phase at first, but the really screwed up girl will eventually surface. and like you've experienced, the next guy will go through the same thing, and then the next guy and the next guy. she will go down a very stressful and lonely road if she doesn't make the effort on her own. the only way you guys have a chance is if she does something about it now...good luck!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ftm [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

I am getting a bad feeling about therapy. The therapist is focusing a lot on my parents' (non-sexual, non-passionate) relationship and the affect that he thinks it's had on me. I'm worried that this is going to turn into me being told that I have some sort of "problem" that needs fixing. I'm not a deviant, damnit!.

---

lol, you aren't a deviant. everyone's upbringing has an impact on them in adulthood. i am starting to think that my mother's insecurities and self-esteem issues have had a major impact on me. we didn't get along during my teenage years because this is when her depression was REALLY bad, but i would tell myself that i'd never be like her. well, here i am, going through all this bullshit and am realizing that all that crap has had more of an impact on me than i hoped. some of it might be genetics for sure, but i'm seeing a lot of the way i interact with my boyfriend as similar to the way she does with my dad and i HATE it. my dad bends over backwards for my mom, and she is so caught up in her own bullshit that she treats him like shit. i don't know how he's been able to deal with it for so long. i guess he loves her so much that he is willing to suffer through it all in hopes that she'll get better. she is going to therapy and is actively working on trying to lose weight (she's 5'1 and 135lbs, so she's not really fat, but her low self-esteem has warped her view of herself). my dad is such an amazing man and i think he deserves better, as you do. my mom is very introverted, so i have no idea what she's really thinking/feeling half the time, and it just might be what your gf is dealing with too, as am i.

use therapy as a means to not only work on the relationship, but work on yourself. it just might make you realize how wrong your gf is for you. the only way the therapist can get into the reasons for the way you interact with each other is to get into your history. so it might bring up things that concentrate on you specifically, or her specifically, but don't get frustrated. it's all a means to a better end. use it as an opportunity to better yourself and try really hard to not get defensive, be as open-minded as you can be and you will get the most possible out of this experience.

Your therapist may just be trying to get her "out of the corner", so to speak. Go ahead and explore the direction he's sending you, it doesn't mean you're accepting the label of Sex Freak just because you look into why sex might be so important to you. May as well use the experience and get something good out of it.

Your girlfriend is going to have to fight a long battle to really make the changes she needs to make. Sex is only a symptom of what's going on with her, which is that she's a selfish, emotionally irresponsible weasel. The shift needs to be made at the foundation of her personality- it's not going to be a lightning-strike epiphany where she suddenly realizes what a fool she's been. Pulling your head out of your ass like that takes years.

Hope you figure out what a bad investment she is before you spend two more years supporting this shitty behavior. I think you've got a whole forest of problems with her and you're focusing on one tree.

I'm not saying I think the girl is a total lost cause, but I think you're enabling her selfishness by not being more demanding. Stop bending yourself into a pretzel to accommodate her just to keep the peace.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RdHrshyKss [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

you're probably right, she has no idea what she wants...the problem is that her "anxiety" issues are preventing her from doing anything about it. she would rather ignore the issues and do as much as possible (even go so far as to project it onto you and make you feel like it's your fault!) so that she doesn't have to deal with them. it's definitely not fair for you to have to deal with this.

---

The difficult thing, I think, it that it comes in fits and starts. She'll come around and things will seem really great for about a week, and then before I know it it's gone back to how it was. So what happens is that I start to feel hopeful, and even good. A few weeks ago we started talking about the future again beyond the next couple of months and it felt right. It felt really good. But just as soon as that happened she seemed to lapse back into old habits. Now it feels like going to therapy has become her "working on it" and everything else has gone out the window. She has a few finals this week, so I've been trying to tell myself that she's just stressed. But deep down I know that isn't it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RdHrshyKss [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

i've been in a relationship for 4 years and we went through the same thing, my sex drive/interest decreased a lot. the honeymoon phase was over and my insecurities began to surface. i'm going to be honest and say that my bf doesn't bend over backwards for me as you do/did for her, and maybe that is what helped force me to realize what the hell my problem was. i would tell him that i didn't like the pressure of him bringing up sex and how he wasn't getting it enough and that if he stopped pressuring and asking that i would initiate it. i truly thought that that was the problem, tried to convince myself that that was the problem because it had an easy solution, but in the end it was definitely not the reason. he became more and more distant from me and resentful because he didn't see the point in going out of his way for me when i wasn't reciprocating with anything. now when that started to happen, his advances stopped and that in itself made me feel even shittier. it's a horrible cycle that develops when denial is playing tricks on you. i think all the things you have done for her have provided a cushioning, it has given her the control and the warped idea that you will always be there and that she has time. she is avoiding things because the only way to solve anything is to look deep down inside of her and she is probably scared of what she might realize (whether it be unpleasant things about herself that will screw up her view of herself, or that you aren't the right guy for her and that she has to completely start over with someone else).

---

Well, I have done the tactic of not going out of my way for her, and is usually just makes us fight even more. She actually gets confused when I stop going out of my way for her, and then I have to patiently explain, for the zillionth time, that I'm not getting what I want. It's exhausting.

I think you are very correct on one point, that she has the impression that I won't go anywhere. It's sick: our relationship seems to get better if she's afraid I'm going to leave. Like after a fight, or after I lay down the law about something. Or after she screwed up in the back of a bar with a colleague. But if everything is fine, I get taken for granted.

I appreciate your input on this thread. It means a lot to hear a perspective from someone who has sort of been in the same situation as my girlfriend. It''s providing me with clarity on a few points.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RdHrshyKss [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

now i'm still with my bf, and i'm going to say that it's not easy. but the only reason things are gradually getting better is because i am actually analyzing myself and what i've brought to the relationship and what i should be bringing.

---

May I ask how long your difficulties have been going on? How long into the relationship before they started presenting themselves?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RdHrshyKss [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

my boyfriend was not as lenient as you, he put his foot down as i said you should. it definitely created some backlash, and my first instinct was to fight it, but he stood his ground. it made me realize that i truly do love him, want to be with him and am sick of playing games. i was forced to acknowledge my own issues and actively work on them. we are still actively working on this, and neither of us have thrown out the idea that we just might not be compatible, but because we both love each other we decided that putting forth a little more time to see if things get better was worth a shot. i'm sure that this is the same outlook you have right now, but i fear that your efforts will be worth nothing unless she is in it with you and it doesn't sound like she is. i think doing what my bf did is the only way you will figure out if she truly loves you or not.

---

What did your boyfriend do to put his foot down?

I gave the girl an ultimatum, and a timeline for things to change. Maybe it's not enough? (Ha. Well, *clearly* it's not enough.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RdHrshyKss [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

my dad bends over backwards for my mom, and she is so caught up in her own bullshit that she treats him like shit. i don't know how he's been able to deal with it for so long.

---

Wow. Sounds like my parents. My folks deal with it by almost never being in the same room together. When they are, my mother often demeans and belittles him, and she's so accustomed to it that she doesn't even notice she's doing it. She resents him because the marriage didn't end up being what she'd hoped it would. She takes it out on him. I can't fathom how he puts up with it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RdHrshyKss [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

my mom is very introverted, so i have no idea what she's really thinking/feeling half the time, and it just might be what your gf is dealing with too, as am i.

---

My girlfriend is not a veery introspective person. This is why she's in therapy -- it's the only way she ever takes a good look at herself. When not in therapy, she's generally not interested in things that might cause her to probe her deep thoughts and feelings. She just wants to "turn it off" because it's "too hard." I guess it's a fine coping mechanism when you are single, but she's in a relationship, and I'm sick of it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RdHrshyKss [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

use therapy as a means to not only work on the relationship, but work on yourself. it just might make you realize how wrong your gf is for you. the only way the therapist can get into the reasons for the way you interact with each other is to get into your history. so it might bring up things that concentrate on you specifically, or her specifically, but don't get frustrated. it's all a means to a better end. use it as an opportunity to better yourself and try really hard to not get defensive, be as open-minded as you can be and you will get the most possible out of this experience.

---

I will try.

I am planning on seeing someone on my own, as well. I have so much crap going on this month thatI don't have time to get that ball rolling, but I'm going to get started on it next month.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gigabitch [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Your girlfriend is going to have to fight a long battle to really make the changes she needs to make. Sex is only a symptom of what's going on with her, which is that she's a selfish, emotionally irresponsible weasel. The shift needs to be made at the foundation of her personality- it's not going to be a lightning-strike epiphany where she suddenly realizes what a fool she's been. Pulling your head out of your ass like that takes years.

Hope you figure out what a bad investment she is before you spend two more years supporting this shitty behavior. I think you've got a whole forest of problems with her and you're focusing on one tree.

I'm not saying I think the girl is a total lost cause, but I think you're enabling her selfishness by not being more demanding. Stop bending yourself into a pretzel to accommodate her just to keep the peace.

---

*sigh* You are right. There are more problems than this. This is just the big one.

I realize you don't think she's going to change. I hope you are wrong, but I realize you may be right. At least, she isn't going ot change for me. I've tried being accommodating. I've tried being demanding and immovable. Neither strategy works on its own. She only shapes up when she's scared she's about to be alone. Maybe me leaving, and the next guy leaving, and the next guy, will be what it takes to get her to "get it."

Maybe still hoping I'm wrong makes me the biggest sucker so far.

It strange that you mentioned your father's situation. You and your father's situations sound identical. Perhaps this is one of the things the therapist will eventually point out. I'm sure you don't want to end up like your father. I also don't think you should down yourself by saying that you're a sucker. When people get comfortable that resist change (consciously and subconsciously). That is all you're going through. I personally don't think you should even give her until the end of summer. The end of your counseling should be the cut off date. I say this because if she isn't putting forth an effort WHILE going to counseling, she won't after its over when there isn't an objective professional prodding her. Figure out how much a U-Haul will cost and start saving. Line up a few people who will be willing to help you get all of your stuff out, and move on a day (or weekend) when she'll be out of the house. No more timelines, or ultimatums. She's already proven that when deadlines come up, or you put your foot down that she'll do just enough to appease you and get you back into that comfort zone. Don't let her do it in the future. Move out before she has a chance to cry and moan, and utterly pull the wool over your eyes again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ftm [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

May I ask how long your difficulties have been going on? How long into the relationship before they started presenting themselves?

---

We've been together for 4 years total, but the points in time where our difficulties began would be around the 2 year mark, right where you are now. We actually broke up right around the 2 year part (not just because of my issues, but because my bf had his own issues and we weren't meshing well at all, we were both stubborn as hell, and young, and it was our only option at that time). The time apart gave us some time for reflection (he realized how awful he had been to me and I realized that I still really loved him and wanted to work on things) so we eventually got back together. We started going through the same shit 2 years later. So I guess you can consider what we are going through now as round 2, although we are approaching it in a completely different way. Our situation is VERY similar to yours, but then again it has its differences.

It's really weird, because I see that a lot of my own personal issues are like your gf's, but I also think that you and I are similar in a lot of ways. I am usually the one who likes to go out of my way for my boyfriend, and he has issues with taking advantage of that. He doesn't show his appreciation in the way that I would like him to. But after being in different relationships with similar things popping up, I've noticed that a lot of the problems I'm experiencing are coming from my own issues. The way I see it, is my boyfriend ended up treating me poorly because I treated myself poorly. I'm not taking all of the blame, because my bf could have and should have treated me better, but I do have to blame myself for some of it because he wouldn't have gotten it in his mind to treat me in that way if I had been more confident and sure of myself.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ftm [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

What did your boyfriend do to put his foot down?

---

The way he did it was pretty much tell me that he wanted out, that I wasn't giving him what he needed and that my low opinion of myself was starting to make him have a low opinion of me. I did what your girlfriend did and begged him to stay, to work on it. It took a lot of convincing and promises. He would reiterate to me often how unhappy he was in the relationship, that he was going to give it a shot, but that the outlook didn't look good. If I slipped up, he would be right on top of me, excuses were never accepted. He would point out everything, and if I didn't want to hear it, then he would say he could just leave. After a few weeks of this, I finally let it go and stopped fighting it. I had an AH-HA moment. I realized that what he was telling me was true, that I needed to change. Not for him, but for me. I was sick of being upset all the time, of feeling lonely, of being stressed out. It took a good hard look within myself, something I had not done for years and years, since before my bf and I even met.

Since we've been actively trying to assess the relationship and try to put a stop to all the negative habitual behaviors we've been doing for the past 4 years, things have gotten better. I am feeling better about myself (as much as I can be right now) and he is definitely feeding off of that and is trying to show more appreciation. When we've had discussions about this, he would say that he acted so tough with me because he views it as the best way to get someone to change. In our case, it would just make me feel even worse and his negative behavior would give me a reason to blame him for something. In the beginning, when we had just gotten back together he had been very comforting and accepting, but him being too comforting and a push over didn't work either because I would just jump all over that and take advantage. You have to find the balance in between and it's really really hard to explain because I think it's different for everyone. We have started to find the grey area in between where we can communicate and understand each other better. It's not just me vs. him or him vs. me anymore. It's us working together. It's a nice feeling. Don't get me wrong, having been together for 4 years and having gotten used to treating each other in a certain way definitely shows its ugly face still, but like giga said...it takes lots of time to actually do something long lasting. It's like getting off of cigarettes, or cutting carbs out of your diet. It's really hard and it takes lots of time and patience.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ftm [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Wow. Sounds like my parents. My folks deal with it by almost never being in the same room together. When they are, my mother often demeans and belittles him, and she's so accustomed to it that she doesn't even notice she's doing it. She resents him because the marriage didn't end up being what she'd hoped it would. She takes it out on him. I can't fathom how he puts up with it.

---

Exact same thing with me. As really young, I don't remember there being many problems. If there were, they hid it from me well and I just didn't notice it. But when I was in my early teens, my dad's business went under, finances got tight and everything went crappy from that point. Their way of living needed to change and my mom definitely resented that. My dad wasn't that great with finances when he was making the money, but once the flow trimmed down a lot, it took a lot of changing. I don't blame her for being upset, but the way she expressed it was just very childish, selfish and obviously did a lot of harm to me and my siblings. It just sucks. All you can do is try to use the experiences as a means to be a better person. Acknowledge it, push through it and make something positive out of it. I'm definitely trying :o(...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ftm [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

I am planning on seeing someone on my own, as well. I have so much crap going on this month thatI don't have time to get that ball rolling, but I'm going to get started on it next month.

---

You are one step ahead of me. I need to do it. Have been procrastinating because I'm scared for some reason. Scared of what I'm going to find out about myself. I just have to suck it up and DO IT!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Incognito [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Figure out how much a U-Haul will cost and start saving. Line up a few people who will be willing to help you get all of your stuff out, and move on a day (or weekend) when she'll be out of the house. No more timelines, or ultimatums. She's already proven that when deadlines come up, or you put your foot down that she'll do just enough to appease you and get you back into that comfort zone. Don't let her do it in the future. Move out before she has a chance to cry and moan, and utterly pull the wool over your eyes again.

---

I just can't imagine a time when this would be practical. And... I have a ton of stuff. A ton. I could leave with just a bit of it, but then have to come back for it later. I don't know. It just seems sloppy. What I'd do is line up a place to live and get things all settled, then let her know what is going on after the fact. If I make enough of a separation like that, chances are she will pull away and not try to hard at that point because it will make her anxious, and she avoids anxiety whenever possible. (Hence her trouble with putting any effort into our situation.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RdHrshyKss [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

It's really weird, because I see that a lot of my own personal issues are like your gf's, but I also think that you and I are similar in a lot of ways. I am usually the one who likes to go out of my way for my boyfriend, and he has issues with taking advantage of that. He doesn't show his appreciation in the way that I would like him to. But after being in different relationships with similar things popping up, I've noticed that a lot of the problems I'm experiencing are coming from my own issues. The way I see it, is my boyfriend ended up treating me poorly because I treated myself poorly. I'm not taking all of the blame, because my bf could have and should have treated me better, but I do have to blame myself for some of it because he wouldn't have gotten it in his mind to treat me in that way if I had been more confident and sure of myself.

---

I set a lot of clear boundaries early on in the relationship and then as time went on I got more comfortable and those boundaries eroded. I think one of my failings is that I wasn't super clear about what I expected from her in our relationship. It was a bunch of "be yourself" crap. I mean, i want us both to be ourselves, but I didn't mean "just do whatever you want and I'll love you regardless and it will all be great." And now I'm realizing that I gave that impression. Or who knows, maybe that isn't it and I'm barking up the wrong tree, but at the very least I think I am on to something.

My situation with my girlfriend is a little different than yours, I think, because a lot of the issues we have stem from issues *she* has that she just isn't willing to deal with. When issues in our relationship brush up against her own issues, she just avoids the entire package. When, after two weeks have passed, or three weeks, or a month I make it clear to her that I want to make love, that it's something I need, then it doesn't matter if I have bought flowers, cooked dinner, or brought her the damned moon, she'll still say no because she doesn't want to deal with the fact that she feels anxious -- about whether I am mad at her, or about how she feels about her body, or whatever. She avoids the whole thing and turns a blind eye to the consequences, because even those consequences might cause anxiety. This isn't conjecture -- She's explained this to me. This is why it's easy for her to accept me doing things for her, but somehow she can't find a way to do anythign for me if it's not 100% convenient.

I don't know if this is is any way similar to your situation with your boyfriend. Either way, once thing we do have in common: We both seem to be "pleasers."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RdHrshyKss [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

The way he did it was pretty much tell me that he wanted out, that I wasn't giving him what he needed and that my low opinion of myself was starting to make him have a low opinion of me. I did what your girlfriend did and begged him to stay, to work on it. It took a lot of convincing and promises. He would reiterate to me often how unhappy he was in the relationship, that he was going to give it a shot, but that the outlook didn't look good. If I slipped up, he would be right on top of me, excuses were never accepted. He would point out everything, and if I didn't want to hear it, then he would say he could just leave. After a few weeks of this, I finally let it go and stopped fighting it. I had an AH-HA moment.

---

I am not quite so vigilant. I let her know I am unhappy, and I have confronted her many times, including a time where I said A"if these things don't change I am gone." But I am not vigilant. I let a lot of things slide because she puts up defenses and excuses that cause me to try to be sensitive to her and in the process disregard my own needs. For example, as far as sex goes, I have noticed that she's started to make it a point to seem very busy with something (or very tired, or very sick) whenever we are together, so that if I even broach the topic of sex, or try to initiate sex with her, it makes it look like I am ignoring what's going on with her. I'll always be interrupting, and it will always seem unreasonable. I don't point this out as often as I ought to, I think.

She's had a few AH-HA moments, but they never seem to stick.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RdHrshyKss [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

In the beginning, when we had just gotten back together he had been very comforting and accepting, but him being too comforting and a push over didn't work either because I would just jump all over that and take advantage. You have to find the balance in between and it's really really hard to explain because I think it's different for everyone. We have started to find the grey area in between where we can communicate and understand each other better. It's not just me vs. him or him vs. me anymore. It's us working together.

---

This is what I'm going for. This is why we are in therapy, because otherwise we just end up fighting and being angry with one another. But one of my issues is that it often feels like in her mind "us working together" translates to me staying silent about what little I need and want. But I am going to try to look for that balance.

You and your boyfriend have been together a lot longer than we have. We just hit 2 years. The problems started really coming up about 6 months in, and I took way too long to address them. I guess I thought it was a phase and it would pass, butt the more time went by, the worse things got for us. We are *almost* at the point where I can't picture us coming to a solution, but I'm not quite there yet.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RdHrshyKss [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

exact same thing with me. As really young, I don't remember there being many problems. If there were, they hid it from me well and I just didn't notice it. But when I was in my early teens, my dad's business went under, finances got tight and everything went crappy from that point. Their way of living needed to change and my mom definitely resented that. My dad wasn't that great with finances when he was making the money, but once the flow trimmed down a lot, it took a lot of changing. I don't blame her for being upset, but the way she expressed it was just very childish, selfish and obviously did a lot of harm to me and my siblings.

---

I've given up trying to understand my parents' relationship. I had thought they were happy when they were younger and that it was just that last 15 years or so that things went south, but as an adult I've gone back to even my earliest memories and realized there were issues even when I was very young. I don't think my folks have gone to counseling together, and it's something they ougght to consider, though something tells me that they are past the point of motivation to fix it. My folks are very traditional -- of the "get married and you are married forever" school. This includes no setting any ultimatums, or even goals, since doing so would be an admission that you've pictured things not working out. However, my mom has spoken many times of leaving him, but she never does because she would "feel bad about it." She doesn't think my father would be okay without her. This is one of the issues they have: She views him as a child. The fact is, he'd be fine without her. I am certain there are dozens of women waiting in the wings who would be happy to scoop my Dad p and might actually treat him like a man of his stature. That's not to say that he's perfect. There's a lot that my Mom needs that he's just not able to give. He tried valiantly, but she doesn't recognize it. She would do better with someone who moves more at her speed and shares her interests.

My siblings and I have both noticed ways in which our parents relationship has affected our own relationships. I'm probably just scratching the surface.

This is one of the ways in which therapy will be useful. For you, as well.

Ftm, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you say that your gf threatened suicide when you two were going to break up in the past? I didn't want to go back through all the posts to try and find that one bit of information. At any rate my whole reason for saying that is since you cannot get all of your stuff and simply slip away arrange for the police to be there when you are moving. I'm quite sure they'd show and this would cut down on the drama and suicide talk. You could take as long as you needed to get your stuff out without having to worry about her acting out. If she got histerical or started talking suicide the cops would arrest her or take her to the hospital for evaluation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Incognito [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Ftm, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you say that your gf threatened suicide when you two were going to break up in the past?

---

No, you are thinking of someone else probably. My girlfriend has never made any threats connected with me leaving her.

Oh ok. It must have been someone else whose situation mirrored your own with the added bonus of her threatening suicide on top of it all. Well why don't you just move out regardless of whether she knows or not then? Its quite clear that this won't work and you both are just going through the motions. Even if that wasn't the case and she started f*cking your brains out tomorrow your view of her and your relationship has been drastically changed for the worse.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Incognito [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Well why don't you just move out regardless of whether she knows or not then? Its quite clear that this won't work and you both are just going through the motions. Even if that wasn't the case and she started f*cking your brains out tomorrow your view of her and your relationship has been drastically changed for the worse.

---

I still love her.

I want to give us the summer, or at least part of it, to work on it. When she's not in school. When she has absolutely no excuse.

Moreover, moving right now would be very inconvenient. I have so much going on as it is that I can't even contemplate mounting such an effort within the next 6 weeks.

Stop loving her, dammit. Jesus Christ!

well, come fall at least you'll have gotten something out of therapy for YOURSELF. if things don't work out (sorry to say that's what i'm thinking will happen if she continues to avoid her problems) at least you will have learned from the experience. i was listening to john mayer (not trying to be corny!) the other day and one of the verses applies here:

and this is not to say, there'll never come a day
i'll take my chances and start again
and when i look behind on all my younger times
i'll have to thank the wrongs that led me to a love so strong

that ideal is pretty much what keeps me going and helps me from dwelling on all the crappiness. if things between my bf and i don't work out, at least i'll be able to move forward knowing more about myself, knowing what it is that i need in a relationship and what i don't want. you only learn these things through experience...so hopefully come fall you'll be able to move forward with a positive outlook and will be able to use your experiences with your current gf to not make the same mistakes in the future. good luck ftm, i'm rooting for you...