[News] Obama signs historic healthcare reform into law

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Originally Posted by Doc Durian [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

You're a doll, the_robot. ;)

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The weird thing about that statement is that I've been told just that a few times... don't know if it's good or bad.

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Originally Posted by Doc Durian [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

I didn't dub you a rapist, but the policy of raping one's right to self determination which you support. The rest of your comment about insane men with beards also has no merit.



America is no longer a constitutional republic?

Oh shit, there's goes the neighbourhood.




The US Government, Federal nor State was ever intended to "help out society". Nor was it intended as a springboard for Majoritarianism or raving mad packs of jealous socialists eying off someone else s life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness.



It's because misguided advocates like yourself who let the government get its fingers into the health care pie many decades ago.



I'm neither mad nor in need of your consent to prospectively become mad as I live my life and you live yours. It is in effect, our lives, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. We have the right to self determination.

Similarly, I have a moral obligation to let the system fix itself through the open and free market. The solution/s can only arise from a market free of government intrusions, taxations, and regulations.

So in order to allow this to happen efficiently and effectively, the solution would be to place the US Federal Government back into its cage and to educate the populace about the nature of the Constitutional Republic they're a part of.

The "end justifies the means" type malarkey has no place in the solution.

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As previously stated, I really don't care. I'm rather happy that the President I voted for and the representatives I voted for got something done that I was rooting for last week.

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Originally Posted by IndiReloaded [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

We had this argument already in another thread. But I don't have a problem with paying for socialized healthcare. So long as the dollars are being spent *responsibly*. One problem is that taxes are not directly linked to services. They go into a big pot that is allocated by the party agenda. I would like to see more accountability for where tax dollars go. If my taxes are being raised to pay for healthcare, fine (not really b/c I think there should be another model, but I won't post here). Its not okay if I'm expecting them to pay for healthcare and some fraction is going into homeland security dubious programs, increasing the size of the gov't and other things I didn't ask for.

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I'm not disagreeing with you on this one. I live in California, a state where our leadership places NO importance on education ( I did not vote for them so I'm boohooing this one) and takes money away from our kids every year. The rich send their kids to private schools while the poor just have to deal with the lot they've been given. That ticks me off. Being neither poor nor rich my parents and I help supplement my little sister's education with music teachers, tutors and volunteering to raise money at the schools. not every family has the time and resources to do that though.

I wish I could allocate where the large chunk of my paycheck I give the gov'nt goes every year. But they'd never give us that kind of power.

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Originally Posted by Lipp [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Of course corporations would have aims and practices that are more suitable for providing an absolutely vital service for the entire population than a government ever would.

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Actually, there is some truth to this on certain issues. I couldn't tell if you were being sarcastic or serious. But for those who think this is sarcasm, consider:

Who do you think drives initiatives like energy-conserving bulbs, clean-energy alternatives, monitoring systems and the like? Its actually corporations, b/c every dollar they save goes into their bottom line. Governments don't typically install things like energy efficient bulbs, load meters, night-time lighting grid solutions, etc. until well after the principle has been proven by corporations. Why should they? Governments don't have anything like a board or shareholders to answer to. They should, but they don't.

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Originally Posted by LailaK [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

I wish I could allocate where the large chunk of my paycheck I give the gov'nt goes every year. But they'd never give us that kind of power.

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Who is "they"? YOU are they. Have you ever told your local representative this is what you'd like? I have. I just did, in fact, the other night. Sure, we laughed about it but that seed gets planted, all the same. What do you think would happen if he heard it from enough of his constituents, especially well-placed ones working in various connected sectors?

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Originally Posted by LailaK [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

As previously stated, I really don't care. I'm rather happy that the President I voted for and the representatives I voted for got something done that I was rooting for last week.

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You don't care that your vote, the policies enacted because of your vote, and the leaders by your vote are violating my life, my liberty, and the pursuit of my happiness?

Stealing from myself and others???

That makes you a thief and thieves can be stopped by any means necessary.

Good day

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Originally Posted by IndiReloaded [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Actually, there is some truth to this on certain issues. I couldn't tell if you were being sarcastic or serious. But for those who think this is sarcasm, consider:

Who do you think drives initiatives like energy-conserving bulbs, clean-energy alternatives, monitoring systems and the like? Its actually corporations, b/c every dollar they save goes into their bottom line. Governments don't typically install things like energy efficient bulbs, load meters, night-time lighting grid solutions, etc. until well after the principle has been proven by corporations. Why should they? Governments don't have anything like a board or shareholders to answer to. They should, but they don't.

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It was sarcasm indeed :P

To elaborate - don't get me wrong, corporations can do a far better job than a government in many fields (not to mention faster, instead of having to debate for months on end as this bill is seeing), but healthcare is too critical of a service (along with avoiding monopolies on water/food provision e.t.c.) and has too many in need to be reliant on a corporate body (in this case the often absolute requirement for medical insurance) who for all we know could hike up prices and care for little as long as their quarterly keeps the shareholders happy.

Your example works since in this case the shareholders' aims are in line with the energy-saving ones - profit - if we were in dire need to reduce power consumption and it wasn't cost-effective it'd probably be the other way around.

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Originally Posted by Doc Durian [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

You don't care that your vote, the policies enacted because of your vote, and the leaders by your vote are violating my life, my liberty, and the pursuit of my happiness?

Stealing from myself and others???

That makes you a thief and thieves can be stopped by any means necessary.

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If paying taxes is "theivery" then you can always move into a cave

You do have a choice

I'm not interested in your backwards Australian socialist thoughts today, Mish.

Try again tomorrow, perhaps.

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Originally Posted by Doc Durian [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

You don't care that your vote, the policies enacted because of your vote, and the leaders by your vote are violating my life, my liberty, and the pursuit of my happiness?

Stealing from myself and others???

That makes you a thief and thieves can be stopped by any means necessary.

Good day

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LOL, Doc. It doesn't make her a thief. It makes her part of the *democratic majority* who happen to agree with her. You can't make all the people happy all of the time...

If you don't like it, you need to move to a state that isn't run by democracy. That is Mish's point and he's right. Do you even know what that better alternative would look like tho? Can you show me a viable example of such?

It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried.
- Churchill

[Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
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Originally Posted by LailaK [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

I'm not disagreeing with you on this one. I live in California, a state where our leadership places NO importance on education ( I did not vote for them so I'm boohooing this one) and takes money away from our kids every year.

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I have been extremely happy with the California school system, except that there are too many stupid kids and lazy parents.

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Originally Posted by IndiReloaded [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

LOL, Doc. It doesn't make her a thief. It makes her part of the *democratic majority* who happen to agree with her. You can't make all the people happy all of the time...

If you don't like it, you need to move to a state that isn't run by democracy. That is Mish's point and he's right. Do you even know what that better alternative would look like tho? Can you show me a viable example of such?

It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried.
- Churchill

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It makes her an ochlocratic aggressor and your "love it or leave it" support of such, tooth thumbing.

Not the first violation of the US Constitutional Republic, and it won't be the last...

Frasbee made a good pictoral point.

We'll leave it that.

So wait, we will be required by law to buy health insurance? As in, we do not have a choice (without a fine) as to whether or not we want to buy health insurance?

**** that!

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Originally Posted by doppelgaenger [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

So wait, we will be required by law to buy health insurance? As in, we do not have a choice (without a fine) as to whether or not we want to buy health insurance?

**** that!

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The bill extends the coverage to 32 million Americans. It's not going to force you buy the health insurance.

Under the legislation, health insurance will be extended to nearly all Americans, new taxes will be imposed on the wealthy, and restrictive insurance practices such as refusing to cover people with pre-existing medical conditions will be outlawed.

[url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8579322.stm]BBC News - US House passes key healthcare reform bill[/url]

Only the filthy rich will be affected. The people who have been squeezing the likes of you for decades. In theory only the sympathizers of the wealthy should complain about this. Those who are crying socialism or dictatorship have really lost the plot. They'd rather be slaves to the wealthy than insure health care coverage for their children.