What level of jealousy is "acceptable" or "normal"?

The last 3 relationships I had, including my 12 years marriage, involved my partner being very jealous and possessive. It came to the point where I just got annoyed and felt resentful.

Now, I am with a wonderful 38-year-old woman who has been very understanding and patient with me. I find that I act crazy sometimes, which is very unusual for me compared to my previous life. I find that I get jealous feelings. Funny thing is that I am not jealous of anything or anyone in the present tense. It's always someone in her past. I was never jealous of her ex-husband, whom I considered a total chump for losing her. I had strong feelings about the Arab ex-boyfriend from 20 years ago because he was rich, and was her first love. I got over it....and moved on.

Yesterday, while we were having a wonderful weekend together in Little Tokyo, Los Angeles, a conversation came up. I knew she had penpals before we met. In fact, I was one of her penpals, but a very unusual one. She always told me that her penpals were guys from all over the world....no one local, and nothing more than online email buddies. She accidentally mentioned that one guy had a squeaky voice. I started thinking, "wait....you never said you talked to them on the phone." Then I asked her casually, "so did you guys talk on the phone a lot?" Then she paused, and accused me of being a jealous freak again. I don't think I was being a jerk, I just noticed an inconsistency, and asked about it. She felt I was trying it "catch" her or something.... We talked it through...no arguing. I felt bad...and she felt hurt. I know I am mentally insane....and that's why I act weird. But now she tells me I am emotionally immature, and emotionally unavailable for a mature relationship. I don't know why I get myself into these complicated labels and stuff. I am so confused now...and tired....and sad.

I never thought of myself as an insanely-jealous type. I feel as though I'm being mislabeled by misinterpreted behavior. I'm 35 years old....have 2 kids.... I am a high-level executive. I would think I am mature enough as a person to deal with my life. Why do I feel like a 14-year-old pimple-faced nerd again? My shrink hasn't been able to figure it out.

What level of jealousy can you tolerate? How much is too much?

ok, before you go on calling yourself names and taking immediate fault, can you tell me how you asked her if she talked to him on the phone a lot? if you said it in a non-aggressive and quizzical way, then your girlfriend is trying to do a quick flip on you to make it about you and not about her. if you said it in an aggressive and accusatory way without giving her the opportunity to explain, my question to you would be, what's going on through your mind before you actually ask her the question? why are you immediately thinking that she is being unfaithful or lying to you? has she done something in the past that would make you doubt her?

if she has penpals, cool, but if she's also talking to these people on the phone, i would think that you should know about it, no? i mean, if my bf was penpals with girls all over the world, never told me that he talked to them on the phone before, and then slipped that information out without thinking during a conversation, i'd definitely ask him about it. if i asked him without any concern in my voice, there should be no reason for him to start attacking me. if i asked him in an accusatory way, implying that he has done something wrong, i would probably expect him to get a little defensive (especially if this accusatory way of asking him things is something i do all the time and he's fed up of my lack of trust in him).

i think it's normal to be slightly jealous. i think someone who has complete blind-faith in someone else is either naive or has been with them long enough to KNOW that they are trustworthy. my first boyfriend, who i dated in high school for 2 years, went to both proms with, and thought i "loved", had cheated on me. yeah, i was young and naive, but that relationship had an impact on my relations with other guys. my first instinct is to be on guard, to need reassurance all the time so that i know the guy is for real, to want to know girls that he talks to. over time, as i become closer with the guy, that instinct becomes less and less of an issue. my current boyfriend is pretty good about being upfront about stuff (most of the time haha). we have one issue that we still are working on, involving a girl from his past. it's something that shows its ugly face every 6 months or so, but would have probably not been as much of an issue if he had been more upfront about his relations with her (and if this girl had shown any interest in getting to know me).

as far as tolerating goes, i wouldn't like to date someone who is constantly accusing me of being dishonest or disloyal, especially when i've gone above and beyond what's normal to prove to him that he has nothing to worry. in order to avoid any kind of suspicion from my boyfriend, i'm pretty upfront with my relations with other people. i let him know what happened, who i talked to, how the conversation went so that he's updated and feels involved. if he ends up questioning something, i answer him. i don't mind a little bit of jealousy, as long as he gives me the opportunity to explain everything, because it shows me that he still cares :)

if he were to ask me in an accusatory fashion without even giving me the opportunity to explain, then i would get a little bit pissed. and if it was something that he did over and over again, it would tell me that he isn't making a conscious effort to be positive and i might call him a bunch of names and tell him he needs to grow up...

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Originally Posted by RdHrshyKss [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

ok, before you go on calling yourself names and taking immediate fault, can you tell me how you asked her if she talked to him on the phone a lot? if you said it in a non-aggressive and quizzical way, then your girlfriend is trying to do a quick flip on you to make it about you and not about her. if you said it in an aggressive and accusatory way without giving her the opportunity to explain, my question to you would be, what's going on through your mind before you actually ask her the question? why are you immediately thinking that she is being unfaithful or lying to you? has she done something in the past that would make you doubt her?

if she has penpals, cool, but if she's also talking to these people on the phone, i would think that you should know about it, no? i mean, if my bf was penpals with girls all over the world, never told me that he talked to them on the phone before, and then slipped that information out without thinking during a conversation, i'd definitely ask him about it. if i asked him without any concern in my voice, there should be no reason for him to start attacking me. if i asked him in an accusatory way, implying that he has done something wrong, i would probably expect him to get a little defensive (especially if this accusatory way of asking him things is something i do all the time and he's fed up of my lack of trust in him).

i think it's normal to be slightly jealous. i think someone who has complete blind-faith in someone else is either naive or has been with them long enough to KNOW that they are trustworthy. my first boyfriend, who i dated in high school for 2 years, went to both proms with, and thought i "loved", had cheated on me. yeah, i was young and naive, but that relationship had an impact on my relations with other guys. my first instinct is to be on guard, to need reassurance all the time so that i know the guy is for real, to want to know girls that he talks to. over time, as i become closer with the guy, that instinct becomes less and less of an issue. my current boyfriend is pretty good about being upfront about stuff (most of the time haha). we have one issue that we still are working on, involving a girl from his past. it's something that shows its ugly face every 6 months or so, but would have probably not been as much of an issue if he had been more upfront about his relations with her (and if this girl had shown any interest in getting to know me).

as far as tolerating goes, i wouldn't like to date someone who is constantly accusing me of being dishonest or disloyal, especially when i've gone above and beyond what's normal to prove to him that he has nothing to worry. in order to avoid any kind of suspicion from my boyfriend, i'm pretty upfront with my relations with other people. i let him know what happened, who i talked to, how the conversation went so that he's updated and feels involved. if he ends up questioning something, i answer him. i don't mind a little bit of jealousy, as long as he gives me the opportunity to explain everything, because it shows me that he still cares :)

if he were to ask me in an accusatory fashion without even giving me the opportunity to explain, then i would get a little bit pissed. and if it was something that he did over and over again, it would tell me that he isn't making a conscious effort to be positive and i might call him a bunch of names and tell him he needs to grow up...

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Very good points RdHrshyKss. I don't think my tone was accusatory, but maybe she thought I was. She hasn't talked to this penpal in over 9 months, which is even before I met her. She has been honest with me. She even told me why she stopped talking to him....was because he was beginning to like her, and she didn't feel that way. I think she feels that I am beating around the bush instead of directly asking her what I wanted to know. I would love to ask upfront, but i feel embarrassed. I don't want to appear like such a petty dude.... but maybe deep down inside I am that insecure. She even said, the reason why I wanted to know was so that I could satisfy my own insecurities....to be sure that I was special in the way we met....and how we got to know each other. I suppose she's probably right, thought I never thought of it this way.

I am always gonna have that slight jealousy feeling inside of me, because I am a dude, and that the way I am. But I don't think I would act all psycho and stuff because there is no reason to. My GF is very honest with me, and she assures me every step of the way. I just fear that she's gonna get tired....as she may feel that she has to explain all the time...even though I never really require that. I don't know why or how things evolved this way. I'm tired and sad. The funny thing is.... I have never had a girl cheat on me.....and I have all these jealous fears. All of her ex-BFs cheated on her, yet she has zero jealous tendencies. I am completely confused.

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i wouldn't like to date someone who is constantly accusing me of being dishonest or disloyal, especially when i've gone above and beyond what's normal to prove to him that he has nothing to worry. in order to avoid any kind of suspicion from my boyfriend, i'm pretty upfront with my relations with other people. i let him know what happened, who i talked to, how the conversation went so that he's updated and feels involved. if he ends up questioning something, i answer him. i don't mind a little bit of jealousy, as long as he gives me the opportunity to explain everything, because it shows me that he still cares

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Pretty much the same for me.

I go out of my way to involve the guy in my life, so he never feels insecure or has any reason to doubt me.

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Originally Posted by Kaius [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

"wait....you never said you talked to them on the phone." Then I asked her casually, "so did you guys talk on the phone a lot?" Then she paused, and accused me of being a jealous freak again.

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I would've asked her why she was being defensive if I were you. It was a simple question, her reaction was excessive.

Unless you have been a jealous freak a lot in the past, I think that could justify her response.

Everybody is different. It's tough to say what's the jealousy threshhold for each individual person, and now that you guys have had problems recently, her threshhold is much less. You can only be yourself, and if you FEEL like you've been excessive, you are going to take notice. The fact that there is still hurt and issues involved from your recent fighting and split, I'm sure there is a feeling of walking around on eggshells sometimes. The difficulty of getting back together too soon. Not impossible, but not helpful.

I'm saying this because I never got jealous about anything my ex did and trusted her completely. However, I was on the very other end of the spectrum and it seemed to the point where I was indifferent to what she did and she felt like I didn't care about her enough. There were many messed up things about us, but I'm just saying it to illustrate a point. There is a happy medium somewhere for everyone and I think you have a good idea about where it lies with her. You've looked at what you did before and it messed things up, and I'm sure even you have seen that some of your actions aren't justified. I'm glad you are trying to find out why things are going wrong, because that will help you institute the changes you are trying to make in your every day life.

I'm in agreement with everyone here so far, Kai. Had your response been accusatory, I could see why she'd jump on the defensive. However, it is a common tactic of guilty parties to attempt to deflect blame onto the other person so as to absolve themselves. If you asked the question calmly, without accusation, her defensive response looks like she is covering up guilty feelings.

This may be a situation where you just want to bite the bullet and apologize if your concerns/questions caused her to feel upset and untrustworthy.

Perhaps she got all pissed and because she is tired of him questioning about this and that all the time. He has admitted to being very insecure and jealous and openly admits to having a huge problem. It's not so long back that he posted a thread in regard to getting jealous over her past ex (the Arab guy) and he was bringing him up in her face all of the time and questioning. If I was at the brunt end of all this questioning, I'd get pretty pissed too and having to answer to every little thing I did in the past.

An ex of mine was similar in the very early days. He would question every little thing I did and it used to totally piss me off and it annoyed me. I blew a kiss to my neice one day and while chatting on the phone and he asked who I was blowing the kiss at. If I didn't reply to a text message immediatley, then it must mean I'm with another guy! I had to reassure and assure him that he could trust me totally and utterly and he'd be ok for a while, but then it all started back up again. ...so again, constant assurances.
The longer the relationship went on though, his insecurities seemed to disappear, obviously and because he was feeling way more secure in the relationship and he knew he had no reasons to doubt me. It had been his own bloody paranoia.

It's called insecurity, not jealousy. (Although the two DO go hand in hand)

Your concern about her first love was due to you (subconsciously) wondering if she still loved him, how you compared, whether her feelings for him were stronger than the ones she has for you, if she still thinks about him, etc. Even if you don't REALIZE it, those were some of your concerns.

Your question about the penpal she spoke to on the phone (while perfectly NORMAL) was a result of you wondering just how close they'd gotten. Is it becoming more than just a distant penpal thing? Is she getting closer to him? Does she secretly talk to him more than she should/behind your back/on a regular basis?

These are all (LEGITIMATE) questions you have for her. BUT, the way you asked her was wrong.

You said "So you talk to him on the phone a lot?" (which, to HER, makes her think "Oh shit. I f**ked up" and then forces her to blame YOU for her keeping a secret)

INSTEAD, you should have laughed at her comment about his squeaky voice, made a comment poking fun, get her laughing, then casually say "I feel sorry for you babe. You gotta deal with that shit on a daily or just every once in a blue?"

That ^^ way, it sounds less "accusatory" and more "casually curious", which makes her defenses stay down.

Remember, it's not WHAT you say, but HOW you SAY it ;)

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Originally Posted by xxazurexx [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

The longer the relationship went on though, his insecurities seemed to disappear, obviously and because he was feeling way more secure in the relationship and he knew he had no reasons to doubt me. It had been his own bloody paranoia.

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wow that sounds stressful.

when it comes to my boyfriend and i, we just have a history of things not being so upfront and honest with this girl he knew and hung out with before me. he actually continued talking to her online every once in awhile. and it always seemed to pop up when she became recently single or was having relationship problems. my bf isn't a mean guy, so when she would message him, he wouldn't ignore her. he would casually bring things up about her and i was just getting suspicious of this girl's intentions. not really suspicious of him, mind you. so i would want to know what they were talking about and all this stuff, and he was getting more and more annoyed with me being up his ass about it. i tried explaining what i thought this girl was trying to do and why he feels the need to talk to her and he would always say that he has no feelings for her. he said he lost interest in her when he dealt with her before me and that he's just strictly trying to be civil. my insecurities about it pushed him more and more and he just ended up not telling me things. then him not telling me to avoid the stress made me feel like he was hiding things from me and it got nasty. eventually in the end he said he just wouldn't talk to her anymore. and he didn't for a long time. hadn't heard anything about him talking to her for almost a year. and just recently he slipped up and said "lisa told me the other day...". and i'm like, "oh so you're talking to lisa again? i thought you weren't going to talk to her anymore?" his response is "yeah, we randomly send each other stuff sometimes when we're bored at work". and he said it in a nice way, no negative intentions behind it, just being honest. and i just can't stop getting pissed thinking "she's back". he said he forgot about what he had told me before. it's just a big pain in the ass. i trust him, but for some reason i just don't trust this girl. it's all my insecurites though! ahhh! so annoying haha...

NBT, i like your style ;)...made some really good points and gave good advice.

but some women are smart enough to know when you are faking a laugh and are insecure about it, they'd probably still call you out on it haha

honestly i would only get jealous if my girl was "dating" someone else behind my back. anything else is just friends or playful flirting. but i'm probably a more tolerable person.


raverboy

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Originally Posted by RdHrshyKss [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

NBT, i like your style ;)...made some really good points and gave good advice.

but some women are smart enough to know when you are faking a laugh and are insecure about it, they'd probably still call you out on it haha

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'Preciate it.

And yes. SOME women might see through that. However, if the guy can pull it off just right, it'll work on MOST.

For instance (different scenario here, but same point)

Let's say you were single. Guy comes over to "chill and watch movies" with you. Now, you as a woman, will naturally expect for him to make a move on you. And, in most cases, even if a woman WANTS to have sex with this guy, she'll still push his hand away, or say no, before finally giving into his advances (and some women won't give in AT ALL)

But suppose this guy DOESN'T make a move? YOU WANT HIM, but he gives you NO indication whatsoever that he's AT ALL interested in ANYTHING other than the movie. You're thinking "Wtf?" It throws a woman OFF just a bit.

So imagine if, after this WHOLE TIME of you WANTING him to make a move, and he DOESN'T, if he's about to LEAVE, you're thinking "Damn it, DO something!" If he turned around and started making out with you (COMPLETELY unexpected) your normal "female defenses" would be DOWN by this point. You were so worried he'd leave WITHOUT making a move, that you're almost GRATEFUL when he does. You're PAST the "Let me turn him down" stage.


Again, there ARE EXCEPTIONS, (and you might BE one) but I still think you get the point I'm trying to make. lol

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Originally Posted by NBT [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

'Preciate it.

And yes. SOME women might see through that. However, if the guy can pull it off just right, it'll work on MOST.

For instance (different scenario here, but same point)

Let's say you were single. Guy comes over to "chill and watch movies" with you. Now, you as a woman, will naturally expect for him to make a move on you. And, in most cases, even if a woman WANTS to have sex with this guy, she'll still push his hand away, or say no, before finally giving into his advances (and some women won't give in AT ALL)

But suppose this guy DOESN'T make a move? YOU WANT HIM, but he gives you NO indication whatsoever that he's AT ALL interested in ANYTHING other than the movie. You're thinking "Wtf?" It throws a woman OFF just a bit.

So imagine if, after this WHOLE TIME of you WANTING him to make a move, and he DOESN'T, if he's about to LEAVE, you're thinking "Damn it, DO something!" If he turned around and started making out with you (COMPLETELY unexpected) your normal "female defenses" would be DOWN by this point. You were so worried he'd leave WITHOUT making a move, that you're almost GRATEFUL when he does. You're PAST the "Let me turn him down" stage.


Again, there ARE EXCEPTIONS, (and you might BE one) but I still think you get the point I'm trying to make. lol

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you had me all aggitated reading that, that i would have given into the guy at the end of the night hahaha ;) totally got the point, you playa...

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Originally Posted by RdHrshyKss [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

you had me all aggitated reading that, that i would have given into the guy at the end of the night hahaha ;) totally got the point, you playa...

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LOL, Score one for NBT!

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Originally Posted by RdHrshyKss [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

wow that sounds stressful.

when it comes to my boyfriend and i, we just have a history of things not being so upfront and honest with this girl he knew and hung out with before me. he actually continued talking to her online every once in awhile. and it always seemed to pop up when she became recently single or was having relationship problems. my bf isn't a mean guy, so when she would message him, he wouldn't ignore her. he would casually bring things up about her and i was just getting suspicious of this girl's intentions. not really suspicious of him, mind you. so i would want to know what they were talking about and all this stuff, and he was getting more and more annoyed with me being up his ass about it. i tried explaining what i thought this girl was trying to do and why he feels the need to talk to her and he would always say that he has no feelings for her. he said he lost interest in her when he dealt with her before me and that he's just strictly trying to be civil. my insecurities about it pushed him more and more and he just ended up not telling me things. then him not telling me to avoid the stress made me feel like he was hiding things from me and it got nasty. eventually in the end he said he just wouldn't talk to her anymore. and he didn't for a long time. hadn't heard anything about him talking to her for almost a year. and just recently he slipped up and said "lisa told me the other day...". and i'm like, "oh so you're talking to lisa again? i thought you weren't going to talk to her anymore?" his response is "yeah, we randomly send each other stuff sometimes when we're bored at work". and he said it in a nice way, no negative intentions behind it, just being honest. and i just can't stop getting pissed thinking "she's back". he said he forgot about what he had told me before. it's just a big pain in the ass. i trust him, but for some reason i just don't trust this girl. it's all my insecurites though! ahhh! so annoying haha...

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I've never had that problem you know. This problem of them having an ex gf lurking around, or the problem that a lot seem to encounter, when their gf/bf will have friends of the opposite sex. Nor have I ever had bfs that worked with females, they had previously been involved with, ie f**k buddy situation, etc. So I've never had to deal with these kinds of situation. Likewise, I've never had some ex that remained in the picture, because I don't do friends with exes and to be honest, had no desire to remain friends with any of my exes.... nor do I have guy friends. So that was never a problem for any guy in my life either.

If I ever found myself in that kind of situation and with a guy who was insistent he kept his ex around, then I just wouldn't be with that guy. I've blindly trusted before and I'm not open to just blindly trusting again. This is because I've placed my trust in men before and I was cheated on. For that reason, I wouldn't tolerate any situation I was not happy in, or a situation in which I had doubts or concerns, any situation in which I was made to feel 'insecure'. I'd rather opt out and I'd leave.

The last ex was terrible and was really insecure. But his just all boiled down to paranoia and because he had no reason not to trust. I had no ex I was keeping in touch with, I had no male friends, my nightclubbing days are over and it's rare I go out anymore and with female friends. I spend the majority of my time in the home and looking after my daughter, I also work from home. So I used to wonder, wtf was his problem? He would accuse me of still sleeping with my ex husband and because I'd mentioned one day that he dropped my daughters pocket money off. My ex husband is actually remarried btw and he knew he was remarried....but still, he thought I was still having this mad passionate affair with him. If I said I was going shopping with my sister, he'd ask what time I was going, when I'd be back and he'd call constantly and throughout mine and my sisters shopping trip. He was terrible, absolutely terrible....never known a guy like it. It's possible he was even worse than Kauis....and that is saying something!! lol

wowzers. yeah our situations are definitely different. the girl i was talking about was actually not his ex. it was a girl that he met through a mutual friend who he was just "friends" with. they never did anything, but he wanted to. she just strung him along because she liked the attention i guess. when we had started dating in college (about a year after his summer thing with her), we went out to some party with a couple of his friends and actually walked past this girl. she was with some other guy and didn't even acknowledge my bf. at that point, i knew there was something wrong with her. my bf says that the way she acted back then has totally made him lose complete interest in her like that. he keeps in touch with her every now and then just to stay civil and because they are both first born americans with polish parents. plus her dad and my boyfriend's dad have done random business together. it's just an awkward situation. i trust him, but it's the idea that he wanted her in the past and never had her. it sorta scares me. if she was an ex girlfriend, i probably wouldn't be so worried about it.

i don't really talk to any of my exes either, besides for maybe a random "hello, how are you doing?" once a year for those who i have mutual friends with. i'm the opposite of you in that i don't really have many girlfriends. i moved my freshman year of high school and had massive issues making girlfriends. i ended up becoming friends with a couple guys who i'm still friends with today. they are both in serious relationships (one just got married and the other has been dating his gf for like 5 years). when we hang out, it's always a couples thing so my bf shouldn't have anything to be concerned about. they are more like my brothers than anything else.

i don't know if it's me being extremely jealous or if i have a legitimate concern about this girl. she is my problem, not my boyfriend. but i guess if i was completely secure about my relationship with him, she wouldn't bother me? i don't know, maybe it's just that i don't like the girl and i don't want him talking to her period, even if i don't have anything to worry about. but me having that kinda attitude is just going to push him to talk to her without telling me and i don't want that either. so annoying...

I think hiding your insecurities would be a waste of time. This is a serious relationship and you have to be yourself for it to work.

The fact of the matter is, you caught her hiding something from you. She misrepresented her degree of contact with Squeaky Pen Pal Guy and it raised a red flag. Of course it did. She shouldn't be surprised; you are, after all, a known mentally insane jealous freak. She's chosen to stay with you despite this fact, and therefore she's tacitly agreed to deal with it. Part of dealing with a mentally insane jealous freak is the practice of honesty and transparency. She dropped the ball on that one.

I'm not letting you off the hook, Kaius, but your girlfriend should not go forward identifying you as the "broken one" in the relationship, putting herself in a permanently dominant position. That isn't good for wither one of you.

Beautifully stated, Giga.