How Common is it for people to think marriage, kids is unnecessary?

How common is it for people to think marriage is unnecessary? I don't dislike kids but I don't think I would want any of my own. Also, marriage seems like a silly concept. The pomp and circumstance around them is really expensive and marriage itself causes lots of legal changes/problems. If you really love someone and want to be with them why don't you both just be adults and commit to each other instead of having to make it so official?

Since I'm not serious with anyone this isn't a time critical discussion, but (maybe unnecessarily so) every time I think about asking a girl out I'm concerned if we do get together what will happen when she hears I don't want kids and think that marriage isn't necessary. Not as worried about the kids thing, but I can just see like 95% of women give me a "what the hell is wrong with you?" look when I mention the marriage thing. I don't want to make assumptions here but it seems like marriage is a fantasy for lots of younger women.

Also, the other problem I have with marriage is at least half fail and even more people stay in marriages where they dislike the other person because it is too expensive to get out of or they have kids to take care of. That is why I think the expense of getting married and all the ceremony, legal changes, etc. is overkill. Also, a woman will probably NOT sign a prenuptial agreement and even though you HOPE you can trust her people can change a lot in 5-10 years or even a couple years. Some people also reveal things about themselves that they would never say when they thought their relationship wasn't as stable (before marriage). I've seen plenty of people have marriages that ended up where people got screwed (losing half a life's worth of possessions, alimony, child support, etc.) and quite frankly I'm paranoid about the *chance* that could happen to me.

Actually, that's a growing trend nowadays. A lot of friends of mine are opting not to get married, but to simply make a commitment to each other.

... but it could be more common in areas where religious beliefs are less prominent.

I am personally very into marriage and would not date a man who wasn't into it as well. However, I am one of a few women I know who does not want children. I also have no interest in all the wedding hoo-hah that comes along with marriage, but would be perfectly happy eloping, with a minimal ceremony...

Well you can look at marriage from a different perspective, like for instance all the benefits that come along with tying the knot.

[url=http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/marriage-rights-benefits-30190.html]Marriage Rights and Benefits - Free Legal Information - Nolo[/url]

Other than that it is a matter of choice, in this day and age it becoming increasingly less uncommon for couples to opt not to get married and yes, to not have kids.

I am one of the people who do wish to get married, if only for the romance and memories.

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Originally Posted by tremolo [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

I am personally very into marriage and would not date a man who wasn't into it as well. However, I am one of a few women I know who does not want children. I also have no interest in all the wedding hoo-hah that comes along with marriage, but would be perfectly happy eloping, with a minimal ceremony...

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Why are you so into marriage then? What does it give you that a long-term, stable relationship doesn't?

You think its tough being a guy that doesn't want to get married and have kids? Its even hard being a women that doesn't want any of that....people think there's something wrong with me too. For years people were quite rude about it too calling me selfish. Needless to say I'm quite pissed at their attitude about it.

When I met my guy, on our third date I told him straight up no marriage, no kids...if he wanted those things then it was over for us.

That makes me feel a little better about it. I guess I wouldn't have as much of a problem with it if I weren't scared as crap ending up with a failed marriage (50% of them do fail, 40% are unhappy, the other 10% are happy and still married I hear) and possibly paying alimony, and most likely losing a lot of the possessions I worked hard a long time to get. If it were at all possible I'd have a house and a car bought and paid for before any marriage occurred and have a prenuptial agreement.

Like I said, I know a lot of people who have had failed marriages. My cousin's lasted a couple months. My uncle's didn't last long. My parents probably would have broke it off if not for us children. And the number of people I know goes on... Because of this I approach the subject in a much more cautious manner than others do. I'd say at least a small part of not wanting kids is the fear of what would happen in a failed marriage. Most of it is not wanting the responsibility and just not having a strong urge to.

smackie9: You told him that on the third date?! That seems way early to me. Good to know there are women like you out there though!

What also bothers me is that I am notoriously bad at getting dates. So if I actually got a girlfriend it would be hard for me to eventually have to end it if she wanted marriage and/or kids because I'd be worried it would be forever before I got another date!

In Canada common law is the same as being married. You get all the same benefits. And yes my old man can take half my shit if we split.

smackie9: That is why I was talking about having my house and car paid for and in my name. Common law can't take half of your stuff if you got it before "marriage".

Personally, as a woman, I am not interested in marriage or kids either. I'm in my mid twenties and I don't see the need for marriage. In my state, domestic partners get shared benefits just the same as married couples do. And yes, domestic partners are considered ANY long-term relationship if you live with each other, whether that be a straight or gay relationship (you actually only need proof that you've lived together for atleast ONE day). I would only be interested in marriage for shared benefits.

As for the kids part, I just plain don't like kids.

I am almost 40 and am proud to say that I have not ever accidentally nor purposefully gotten pregnant. I am at the home stretch of my personal marathon to not have children; though my extended family is huge and has provided representatives for the next generation, I am indifferent to children. My reasons for not wanting kids run the gamut, but the main ones are environmental (love that my carbon footprint ends with me), energetic (economic, physical), and, most significantly, my own personal desire to make my human mate my number one priority.

As for marriage, I have been married, and the only things I have to show for it are a damaged pocketbook and self esteem. It's not something I need to do again in my life.

To the OP, follow your heart. Do not let anyone coerce you into marriage or children if your heart does not truly belong there. The no marriage or no kids viewpoints are quite uncommon ones, and it takes a mentally-strong individual to walk this path, but, while you can get divorced (at least in most parts of the world), you can't get rid of kids. Good luck!

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Originally Posted by robertdawson [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

smackie9: That is why I was talking about having my house and car paid for and in my name. Common law can't take half of your stuff if you got it before "marriage".

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Sorry, not true. I know of a couple of common-law 'divorces' (clients of mine) where the spouse took half of everything.....even if the house was bought before the relationship. They're also entitled to alimony and half your work pension.

There are lots of women I know that aren't interested in kids, I know some that have kids but don't want marriage. I have yet to meet one that wants neither. It doesn't mean they don't exist, they're just rare.

Common law can do that huh? Well heck then, we will be living in separate places! Either that or renters. No way I'm going to bust my ass to pay for a house and then get it taken away.

"Sorry, not true. I know of a couple of common-law 'divorces' (clients of mine) where the spouse took half of everything.....even if the house was bought before the relationship. They're also entitled to alimony and half your work pension."

I did not know that. Man, that sounds terrible.

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Originally Posted by tremolo [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

I also have no interest in all the wedding hoo-hah that comes along with marriage, but would be perfectly happy eloping, with a minimal ceremony...

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Awesome. I do want to get married someday, and I suppose once I find somebody worthwhile, the idea of kids would be more appealing, but as far as weddings go, I've always said a courthouse wedding with only the people that, by law, need to be there. I don't need a huge wedding to prove how few friends I have and to prove how much money I can waste. In fact, in my dream world, I would just get married without telling anybody and then have everybody find out from something like a Facebook status update. Gotta find somebody who would be down with that plan! I have been told it would be impossible...that no woman would accept that. Though we shall see.

I am also highly against the 'requirement' of spending life savings on an expensive piece of jewelry just to be able to get married. Blah. I could rant for hours over that one.

I don't really care either way. Marriage isn't needed for me. But, if I meet the right girl and she does want to get married I won't break up over that. Granted, it would depend on how much marriage means to her. If she expects a huge ring and all that, she's not the girl for me.

Kids, however, is different. At this time I don't want kids. Any girl I date I will tell that from the start. I might want kids in the future, but it's not a promise I can make..

I do want to get married one day, I think it would be great with the right person, but I don't want an expensive circus wedding. I'd rather have a small ceremony and use all that money to go around the world for instance. And I hate kids. Sometimes I think I might change my mind but spending two days with my sister's son brings me close to a mental breakdown.

I would still like to get married and have children. But I'm okay with it if I don't have children. I'm not religious, just somewhat traditional.

I never thought I would get married, and I never thought I would have kids.

Falling pregnant kinda changed my mind about having kids (still don't like kids as a general rule, but I now realise I actually dislike lazy parents more than bratty kids because often the lazy parents cause the bratty kids) and once I had that child, marriage became appealing. Hubby and I didn't marry to prove anything to anyone, we married because we wanted to share the same surname.

I agree with you for most of the post.

Marriage is a bit of an outdated concept which hasn't quite shifted with the modern western mentality a lot of us share. Today you live in a world which lies full of potential experiences waiting for you around the corner. With society growing less and less religious a lot of us are raised with the notion that we only live once, so we need to make sure we've had a hell of a life before Mr. Reaper comes to make quick ends with it. Ironically this elevated standard of living is probably the most important reason why the wealthiest of countries deal with the highest levels of depression ...but I'm kind of drifting away from my point here...

This mentality reflects in relationships. People are less and less likely to stay together their entire lives because they'll sooner bail out when it stops feeling right. If today you hook up with someone who isn't too conservative in mind, marrying might not be the best option for you. With roughly 50% of current marriages ending in divorce, your concern is everything but paranoia. I think you can have a very satisfying relationship without marriage (or children), yet modern society still dictates (or at least hints) that "marriage" is still the ultimate way for a couple to be together. That's why I think, a lot of people still desire marriage even if they don't really "need" it. It's comparable with having children, or not having them. Although children are de facto the reason people instinctively want to hook up, so it is not surprising that couples with children generally stay together longer than those without. Still, you do the world a favour by not having children (that's not a personal insult, just the ascertainment that the world is getting heavily overpopulated ;-) ), so I can only root for that as well.
I honestly think that not marrying (or at least not marrying right away) is today's best choice. If you somehow end up spending an entire life with the same person without marriage, you can rest assured it was because you two loved and cared for each other and you wasted nothing.

Still I'm not "fully" against marriage. It has some benefits as well. I reckon today some couples are giving up too fast on each other. That extra barrier of marriage probably has saved and restored a lot of relationships where unmarried ones would have permanently split. It's the other side of the coin where people stay unhappily together. Also I believe the older you grow, the more you'll desire to have that one special person. I think the happiest people amongst the elderly are those who have someone they share several decades of memories with and in ones last years it's probably incredibly gratifying to really having had that "soul mate".

Me personally, I find the topic of marriage not too defining in a relationship. If my girl really wants to get married, then I won't give her up just because I don't happen to find it ideal. Should she hate the idea, then we'll really won't either. If she doesn't have a strong wish on the subject like me, then I would suggest myself to start with a long mariageless relationship, and if it's proven to still feel right after 20 to 25 years, to just get married for the laughs of it. Gives you a small prospect, and a potential marriage which isn't very likely to end up in divorce. It's kinda like having your cake and eating it too.

The decision of kids however is more fundamental, and definitely a relation maker or breaker. Pro or contra, doesn't matter, just make sure you're on the same level as the misses here.

Sjeez talking about writing a book :p off to bed now.

Great points ^^

The 'what if there is something better?' mentality is what kills marriages. Before hubby and I got married we discussed 'shutting the exits'. Once we had decided to marry, that was it, no if's but's or maybe's, this is it. The word divorce doesn't exist in this house. The fact the neither of us believe that there is someone better out there for us helps a lot. I can't imagine there being a better man for me any where in the world. If he passes before me, I'm pretty sure I'll either join a convent or jump the fence. He is the only man I will be with for the rest of my life. :D

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The pomp and circumstance around them is really expensive and marriage itself causes lots of legal changes/problems. If you really love someone and want to be with them why don't you both just be adults and commit to each other instead of having to make it so official?

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You don't have to do any of that crap to get married. It's as cheap and simple as you want to make it. I never thought I would get married but those legal issues have just as many benefits as negatives. Insurance being a major one if one person has a job with much better benefits or just plain has a job when the other doesn't. Then there are tax breaks and if something should happen to one person the other then both has the ability to make decisions on their behalf or gets the life insurance and possessions. Without marriage or some other document in place things can become quite complicated if something bad happens. I took a couple trips to the er in too poor of condition to communicate and if I wasn't married they would not have been able to listen to much my husband said and would have tried to get a hold of my mom who didn't know anything about the situation or my recent health problems.

Our marriage involved a whole 1 month of planning. We were going to try to declare a domestic partnership instead but that's a lot more complicated and has a ton of requirements. Marriage just requires contacting the proper official, 2 witnesses, and signing a document. That was my wedding. It took longer to drive in to town than to get married. We did order some rings but they are titanium with a $5 sapphire from cascadia design. They look pretty much just like this [url=http://www.cascadiadesignstudio.com/titanium-ring-CA50.htm]Stone Set Anodized Titanium Ring[/url] . Diamonds are overpriced white rocks and gold is overpriced weak metal I would have destroyed within the month. I somehow scraped a small groove in my titanium band which has everyone wondering how I still have fingers if I can damage aerospace grade titanium. Downside is while they are correct in saying it can be cut titanium requires a special cutting tool should it need removed and they don't generally stock those on ambulances or in small hospitals.

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Originally Posted by Mathias [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Why are you so into marriage then? What does it give you that a long-term, stable relationship doesn't?

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Marriage to me is a sign of lifelong commitment. If a man refused to marry me, or said he didn't want to marry me, I would be inclined to believe that he wanted a relationship with an escape hatch, and I would end the relationship.

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Originally Posted by tremolo [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Marriage to me is a sign of lifelong commitment. If a man refused to marry me, or said he didn't want to marry me, I would be inclined to believe that he wanted a relationship with an escape hatch, and I would end the relationship.

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Yay for this!
Make sure though Tremolo, if you do find the man you want to marry that he understands that the exits are closed once that piece of paper is signed. Have that conversation before you marry. Unfortunately a lot of people go into marriage thinking 'hey, if it doesn't work, we can always get divorced'.

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Originally Posted by MaidenMinx [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Yay for this!
Make sure though Tremolo, if you do find the man you want to marry that he understands that the exits are closed once that piece of paper is signed. Have that conversation before you marry. Unfortunately a lot of people go into marriage thinking 'hey, if it doesn't work, we can always get divorced'.

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Without a doubt! If I ever seriously discuss marriage with a partner, he will know full well that marriage for me is forever - excepting any form of infidelity, in which case I will be outta there. I will of course expect him to feel the same...

You know, I might be weird in this respect but if hubby cheated it wouldn't necessarily mean curtains for the relationship. I think I would have to know all of the why's before I could say "this isn't just a pothole, it's a detour. Good bye" If the whys could be eradicated I would work on eradicating them.

I can't remember if 'til death do us part' was part of our short vows (saying them was a blur) but even if I didn't say it, I surely meant it. :)

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Originally Posted by MaidenMinx [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

You know, I might be weird in this respect but if hubby cheated it wouldn't necessarily mean curtains for the relationship. I think I would have to know all of the why's before I could say "this isn't just a pothole, it's a detour. Good bye" If the whys could be eradicated I would work on eradicating them.

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I wish I could be that forgiving, but my pride would get in the way...

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Originally Posted by tremolo [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

I wish I could be that forgiving, but my pride would get in the way...

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lol. I wish I could be that proud. :)

Even if the cause could be fixed I'd never trust that another reason wouldn't come up and have the person doing it again.

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Originally Posted by kageri [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Even if the cause could be fixed I'd never trust that another reason wouldn't come up and have the person doing it again.

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Trust can be repaired. It's not the absolute that everyone makes it out to be. There are degrees of trust.

My insecurity and hubbys habit of needing secrets nearly killed our trust in the beginning. I refused to throw away our relationship over something that was fixable.

I'm not 1 that wants kids, never did, never will. I've recently realized I don't really want to get married as well. I guess at some point I might marry my current guy, but I'm not rushing, pushing doing anything. We will not do anything different than we do right now, the only difference is the legal piece of paper that will wind up proving VERY EXPENSIVE if we were to get divorced.

As for not wanting children, I've run the gammot of your selfish shit too. I tell them it's my life & I will do with it what I want. I see people "spitting" out kids at crazy fast rates & they don't want them or properly take care of them. I'm not saying I would be 1 of those types of parents, but I just honestly don't want to bring a child in to this world the way things are going with the economy & world, forget it.

50% of marriages are successful. I want to experience it and I will probably take 'the risk'. There are no guarantees in life anyway, why let fear of something failing stop you?

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Originally Posted by tremolo [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Marriage to me is a sign of lifelong commitment. If a man refused to marry me, or said he didn't want to marry me, I would be inclined to believe that he wanted a relationship with an escape hatch, and I would end the relationship.

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That would be 100% true.

Problem is, everyone changes. Some people change together all the time, which is great. I tend to not be that person, so it's not for me.