Could i ever trust her for a serious relationship?

Hello i have kinda a relationship problem and i heard this is the best forum for these kind of problems so i rly need your help

I met this girl at work in november , she was in a LTR of 7 years with a guy , because of his job ( military) he had to go in another country for 1 year and a half this happened in july 2017 . She is 21 him 22 and im 27 . So i rly liked her but because she had a boyfriend i didnt do anything but in december i heard from the other coworkers that she broken up with her boyfriend but she might be in a relationship with another guy from work that she started hanging out with since august 2017 they would got eat , walk in the park stuff like that . Anyway i asked her and she said that her relationship with her boyfriend hasnt completly ended but its going to because he is to jealous and he always thinks that she will cheat on him because of the distance .

We started hanging out and she would text this other coworker alot and i said to myself "ok so this girl might be a cheater so i better watch out " . Things got a little physical a couple of times grabbed her ass , her breasts stuff like that but no sex . At the end of december she got distant and she stopped texting first and started hanging out with this other coworker alot so i started to back away and keep my distance from her .

Fast forward in april she reached out to me again and things repeat hanging out , some physical stuff and distant again and hanging out with the other coworker, she even started crying in my arms that she misses her boyfriend and i asked her "are you still toghether? i thought you broke up with him by now " and she said "i dont even know anymore i guess we kinda are borken up " but told him in a text that she still loves him but told me that a relationship between me and her is posible and that a guy like me might be good for her . And they both still have photos of eachother on facebook even now . I slept at her place we cuddled all night .

Fast forward in present i saw some photos on facebook from a friend who had a weeding in april and she was there with the other coworker as a pair ( her boyfriend or ex boyfriend doesnt know about the photos ). I asked a friend of mine who is good friends with her boyfriend to ask him , whats the deal with him and her and if they are still toghether he said no , he said that a couple of weeks ago they went to a hotel toghether and someone kept calling her she rejected his calls , he told her to answer but didnt want to . He said that she cheated on him before but forgave her

Now my question is should i keep thinking about this girl ? If she might want a relationship with me could i trust her ? im rly confused and i dont know what to think anymore

Ultimately, you do have to do what feels right for you. So, none of us can really tell you what to do here. But I can tell you what I personally think/what I would do.

First off, I'll say this... I don't necessarily rush to judge her. Sure, on the surface you could make the conclusion that she is a cheater and she uses people. ...The things is that break-ups can be hard. Especially in a case like this where it was ultimately the distance that caused the break-up. Maybe they had other issues anyway, or maybe they were otherwise completely perfect.... but whatever the case it wasn't any issues in particular, or an incompatibility that broke them up.... it was distance.

So that can be even harder to get through. So, it is entirely possible she never meant to use you, the other co-worker, or anybody. But, that sort of thing is exactly why if it were HER coming to us for advice, I'd have told her to take some time with NO relationship to just heal and be by herself. To learn again how to be happy alone.... and THEN go back to looking for love.

Since what she does is not within your control, my personal advice to you would be to just keep your distance for now. At least from a relationship standpoint. You can be friends with her if you can feel okay with doing that for now, but I would not recommend attempting to actually go out with her or start up a dating relationship. You don't deserve to just be somebody's rebound, and whether she even realizes she is doing it... by not giving herself time to move on from her ex (even they even ARE broken up), she may very well be doing that.

In time, if they remain broken up... and in time if she gives herself time to heal and move on... then maybe you two could actually have a chance. For now, you've already tried and she goes very hot and cold on you. That isn't fair to you. Maybe she doesn't mean to do it, but that is exactly what happens when somebody really isn't ready yet to be in a new relationship.

I can't tell you what to do. If you want to try to ask her out, if you want to try to pursue a relationship with her, then maybe you need to do what feels right for you. It may succeed, it may fail, but at least then you'd feel you tried. But, I just personally think you'd be better off to give her some time first. Let her deal with the decision of whether or not her relationship is ending after all, let her deal with the drama of that... and then in time if you still are interested in her, maybe then it could be worth a chance. If, by waiting, you miss your chance and she winds up with somebody else (or back with her ex) that does NOT mean you blew your chance... it means she wasn't right for you anyway.

Best of luck to you.

I dont get what the problem is.
Girl is into you.
She has a boyfriend whom she doesn’t like so much anymore because he can’t be with her the wachse needs it.

So what do you want?

TheEvilJester can be too kind sometimes. That girl is an emotional mess. When you love someone in the military, that is a very difficult thing. You are either committed or not. She seems desperate for attention and affection. If you are ok with an occasional make out session, then go for it. If you are looking for a serious relationship, I think it is obvious you are not going to find one with her.

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Originally Posted by Snow White [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

TheEvilJester can be too kind sometimes. That girl is an emotional mess. When you love someone in the military, that is a very difficult thing. You are either committed or not. She seems desperate for attention and affection. If you are ok with an occasional make out session, then go for it. If you are looking for a serious relationship, I think it is obvious you are not going to find one with her.

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well the photos that i was talking about were taken in april an she was with her boyfriend so si definetly cheated in him , she was sitting in the other coworker"s lap and kissing him . She was also seeing another guy from another town ( the one that called her when she was at the hotel with her boyfriend ) so she was seeing 3 guys at the same time . Deep down i know that i should just let go but its hard

Well, the fact that you were fiddling with another man's girl is problem #1.

Come on man. You need to respect the title of a relationship, even if it isn't your own.

Never do that. Even if you know she's cheating with other people or will cheat with someone else.
Why get involved with that stuff? No thank you.

I would say, no. She sounds like a person that's full of drama, she's a cheater it sounds like, and doesn't value loyalty. If you date her, she will likely eventually cheat on you. Her ex shouldn't have taken her back after she cheated on him, at that point, I believe she'd be a friends with benefits at best.

However, it's your life, you need to do what you want to do.
But like I said, don't be surprised if she cheats on you eventually when you two start to have issues, or she gets bored, or she's just seeking some other excitement, whatever.

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Originally Posted by Snow White [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

TheEvilJester can be too kind sometimes.

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That's funny. I hear that a lot... but I think my victims are just trying to butter me up hoping I'll let them out of the chains. :D

I'm kidding, of course. (OR AM I? Mwuuuuhahahahahahahahaha!!!!!)

But, yeah... I'll admit that sometimes I can give people the benefit of the doubt a little too much with stuff like this. I'll admit that even my personal gut reaction is that she's using him/these other guys and she knows exactly what the Hell she's doing. It's just, we can't really know that. Break-ups CAN be difficult, can be long, can be messy. Long distance can also be really complicated.

Bottom line, whether she's intentionally using people or is just dealing with complicated emotions and didn't give her the proper time to deal with it she should have.... it doesn't really change my advice to our OP. For now, the best thing to do is give her space, give her time, and see how things go from there. If she IS just using people that will seem more and more obvious. If she truly isn't/didn't mean to use and/or hurt anybody then that too will become evident in time. But, for now her actions have done nothing to show that she gives our OP the attention anybody would deserve if you have any intention of pursuing a relationship with somebody.

So, at least for now I definitely agree with the general consensus here,. Proceed as though you assume there is no interest/never will be any interest on her side and thereby do whatever you would do if that were the case. If that ever changes, maybe you deal with that then, but for now just assume it won't change. Don't bend over backwards trying to prove your worth to somebody who refuses to see it. Some other gal WILL see worth in being with you. If she can't see it then maybe that is HER loss and not yours.

Glyc I disagree

What makes you say you have to respect a relationship?

Let us say there is a woman. She doesn’t love her man anymore and he treats her poorly. You could argue that she should end the relationship herself. And that, if she doesn’t, it tells us much about her character.
And you would be right.

But that doesn’t mean I have to respect their relationship.

I also can respect their relationship and still attract the women in question at the same time.

If someone should respect a relationship, it’s the people who are in it.

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Another example: girl is happy in a relationship. Guy doesn’t know her or that she’s in a relationship. He fancies her and starts to attract her. Is he morally doing anything wrong? No.

If girl tells him and says clearly that she is not interested. Then that’s totally different.

Well, I know this was to Glyc, but I also had some thoughts...

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Originally Posted by Hooo! [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Another example: girl is happy in a relationship. Guy doesn’t know her or that she’s in a relationship. He fancies her and starts to attract her. Is he morally doing anything wrong? No.

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Exactly right... but there is a big difference between asking a girl out/flirting with a girl/etc. when you DIDN'T KNOW she was in a relationship and knowing she's in a relationship but choosing to ask her out/flirt with her/etc. anyway. I dunno, maybe it is just me, maybe I'm just old fashioned, but I definitely DO find the latter to be wrong and to be incredibly disrespectful. I will say, you are right that if somebody is in a relationship it is their responsibility to make it clear they are not interested if somebody else tries to woo them. That doesn't mean it is right if somebody knows they are in a relationship yet tries to pursue them anyway.

Honestly, even if two people are in a relationship and are miserably unhappy in their relationship... that isn't anybody's business other than those two people. If they decide to end it... or if they decide to remain trapped in a miserable relationship, that is their decision and their decision alone. It shouldn't be influenced by somebody trying to woo them away.

Again, maybe just my opinion, though. Because, truth be told, if somebody was capable of being enticed away from one relationship by somebody else showing interest then they wouldn't be somebody I'd want in my life anyway. So, heck, the guy pitching woo to my hypothetical girlfriend in this imaginary scenario would be doing me a favor anyway.

It's up to you what you want. But I would like to suggest to you that you should not be in a relationship with her. Because she is hanging out with other guys also, it is difficult to trust her.

No
To the girl there is no difference whatsoever
And in respecting someone it’s their perspective you respect
Not yours

It’s like someone says and means „I don’t mind if you do X“ and out of respect for the person you don’t do x? Nah that’s not respect. That’s selfindoctrinated moral
And it could stillen right. But it as well could not be

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Originally Posted by Hooo! [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Glyc I disagree

What makes you say you have to respect a relationship?

Let us say there is a woman. She doesn’t love her man anymore and he treats her poorly. You could argue that she should end the relationship herself. And that, if she doesn’t, it tells us much about her character.
And you would be right.

But that doesn’t mean I have to respect their relationship.

I also can respect their relationship and still attract the women in question at the same time.

If someone should respect a relationship, it’s the people who are in it.

——
Another example: girl is happy in a relationship. Guy doesn’t know her or that she’s in a relationship. He fancies her and starts to attract her. Is he morally doing anything wrong? No.

If girl tells him and says clearly that she is not interested. Then that’s totally different.

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It's a moral and values thing. And a testament to ones values.
It's really about you showing up, as you would hope someone else would.

OP clearly knows that she's in a relationship, to not know that is completely different.

Think of it this way.


What would you think if a guy started trying to weasel his way between your relationship with your woman? Maybe she's happy with you, maybe she isn't. That's really their business. Plus, it's just asking for drama. My life is drama free, I prefer to keep it that way.

Really, Don't just focus in one woman who isn't even single, she may never be single is the reality of the situation. Look at your other choices.

Also. Would you really want to be with a woman that doesn't disclose that she's in a relationship? I think there would be a lack of loyalty there. Or else its just on the verge of ending,

The thing is, you have to look at how people act with their current partners and consider that they will very likely act the same way when with you.

The best way to handle this, would be to approach the woman, and try to express interest, if she says she's dating someone. "Hey, best of luck with that, I hope it works out for you, but, in the case that it doesnt, let me know, I'd love to get to know you over drinks"

Then let it go. If she's interested, and things fall through, she'll get in touch.

If the relationship is that terrible, just wait, it will end regardless.

If she doesn't end it, she doesn't end it. That's Just the way it is. There's something going on, possibly she's overly attached to the idea of the guy, possibly she isn't that strong in certain aspects.

A healthy and strong woman, will leave behind a man that treats her poorly, even if that means entering into a realm of uncertainty and being alone for a long period of time.

I think your connotation is wrong.
Let us say there is a guy really fancying my wife. And he tries to seduce her.

Well who would better understand him then me.
Ofcourse he would want to. She is a wonderful person. That is part of why I love her so much.

And for sure she will be flattered by his interest. And we will talk about it at dinner. And then we will go to bed with each other and start a new day of our wonderfulrelatio ship

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Originally Posted by Hooo! [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

I think your connotation is wrong.
Let us say there is a guy really fancying my wife. And he tries to seduce her.

Well who would better understand him then me.
Ofcourse he would want to. She is a wonderful person. That is part of why I love her so much.

And for sure she will be flattered by his interest. And we will talk about it at dinner. And then we will go to bed with each other and start a new day of our wonderfulrelatio ship

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So day in and day out, he is well aware that she's married, to you. And yet, he persists on continuing to seduce your wife.

I think that's wrong. This isn't a random guy that just saw your wife at the mall one day, said a compliment then let things be.

Its a guy who is continuously trying to get inbetween your relationship. Some men pretend to be her friend, and when trouble starts up in your relationship and she vents. He's there, talking with her, possibly trying to plant seeds on what she should do, so that he can make a move. Not even necessarily for the best of her or yours interest, just so he has an opportunity, and he's likely trying to push her mind into ending things.

Ironically most of those guys don't work out, but sometimes they can. But typically women don't like being told what to do, and the guys that claim to be "the best thing for her", she usually goes the other way. Lol

If it annoyed my wife I have complete confidence that she would tell him so and me

I have complete confidence that if he would not respect that decision by my wife that she would ask me for help.

I have confidence that I would ultimately be able to clear up the matter once and for all. However I don’t think that this would become necessary.

As I've said, I personally think it is completely wrong to attempt to seduce somebody you know is already in a relationship. But you don't necessarily agree. Okay, so for the sake of argument we will say there isn't necessarily anything wrong with somebody initially attempting to seduce somebody even when they know they are already in a relationship (I still think it is wrong, but for the sake of the discussion, I'll ignore that for a moment)....

If the person shows no interest or even flat out tells you to take a hike... that is all the clue you should need to STOP trying. Otherwise you are just trying to cause drama/steal somebody away from their relationship. Even if you stick around pretending to be their friend but secretly just hoping you can subtly push them into leaving their relationship and/or subtly hinting that you'd be such a great match for them.... it is still wrong. So, honestly, even if I could concede that it is arguably possibly okay to ask them out initially (I still don't think I agree with that, to be honest) you at least need to take a no as a no. Just as you should if the no was coming from somebody who was single.

Agreed

- need 10 characters for that

Okay. Then that I can at least understand, even if I may still not personally agree with it. I still think you might as well take somebody being in a relationship as an automatic no unless they tell you otherwise, but if you at least have the boundaries to take their actual no as a no, I can at least respect that. Like I said, I still think you shouldn't be trying to ask out/seduce somebody you know is in a relationship in the first place, but I guess so long as you respect it if they actually tell you no, then no harm is necessarily done. Wouldn't be much different from if you asked them out and you DIDN'T know they were already in a relationship.

The majority of the time, they go back to their SO after they had their fun with you because what they have is history, and time invested...people don't walk away from that.

As I said
I do not need to respect the relationship of other people
THEY need to respect their relationship.

And if they do that, THEN I have to respect THAT (but not „a“ relationship per se)


You see relationship is a word that means sooooo many different things or connotations to the people involved.
If someone I don’t know sais „I’m in a relationship“ it is the same thing as if a girl told me she „has a boyfriend“.
This can mean the whole range from „you are cute, but thank you no. I love my man and I do not want to be with anyone else right now.“
To
„I’m pretending to habe a bf because I get hit upon so often.“ or even to
„Rescue me, take me away“
Or
„ but I don’t mind a little adventure“


If a woman tells me „oh I have a boyfriend“
I wouldn’t even take her seriously. I would treat that as the basic shittest it is

Yeah, I guess I can honestly see what you mean there. Especially because I am sure women often say they have a boyfriend even when they don't just as an excuse when guys ask them out and they aren't interested. Still... thing is, if they are making it up because they aren't interested.... well then that implies they aren't interested. So, even then I kind of don't see the point of proceeding. It's almost like continuing to try to as a gal out after she's already said no. She's not interested, so why waste your time?

Though, I guess it does work out for some, so I could be wrong. As you said, if somebody is in a relationship, it is certainly up to them to decide if they are into that relationship enough to want to tell any other possible suitors no thank you.

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Originally Posted by TheEvilJester [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Yeah, I guess I can honestly see what you mean there. Especially because I am sure women often say they have a boyfriend even when they don't just as an excuse when guys ask them out and they aren't interested. Still... thing is, if they are making it up because they aren't interested.... well then that implies they aren't interested. So, even then I kind of don't see the point of proceeding. It's almost like continuing to try to as a gal out after she's already said no. She's not interested, so why waste your time?

Though, I guess it does work out for some, so I could be wrong. As you said, if somebody is in a relationship, it is certainly up to them to decide if they are into that relationship enough to want to tell any other possible suitors no thank you.

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I strongly agree. If a woman uses that line, you're best off just moving on or just saying "let me know unfit doesn't work out".

I feel like generally, women that like you don't make it that hard to go out with. And that's what you should want, relationships are already hard enough without games and tricks.

And by just being nonchalant, the women that do reject you, can sometimes even come back around when they see that you're positive and easygoing regardless of what they throw at you.

Ye well but maybe it’s just her way of dealing with the getting hit upon so often.

She can’t even know if she has interest or not
She doesn’t know me- so how would she know?

There maybe reasons for her not wanting to get romantically involved with me
But those are not expressed by „I have a boyfriend“

I have boy friends too
Many of them

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Originally Posted by GLYC [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

I strongly agree. If a woman uses that line, you're best off just moving on or just saying "let me know unfit doesn't work out".

I feel like generally, women that like you don't make it that hard to go out with. And that's what you should want, relationships are already hard enough without games and tricks.

And by just being nonchalant, the women that do reject you, can sometimes even come back around when they see that you're positive and easygoing regardless of what they throw at you.

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Yeah. Exactly how I feel. I just personally think it is better to accept that as basically being a no. Just as I've always felt it is better to take a no as a no rather than taking a no as a challenge. Like as though you think you can win the girl and turn that no into a yes. Again, I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong. At least in as far as asking out girls who AREN'T already in a relationship. Some guys do seem to be able to have luck through persistence.

It just would feel to me personally like a waste of my time and putting myself through unnecessary frustration. Not to mention, even if I did ultimately convince the gal to give me a chance, it would feel like I basically had to force her to give me a chance. So it would just sour things for me anyway. I just personally agree more with what you say, GLYC. I think that if a woman does have interest she is most likely not going to play games and make you jump through hoops. Sure, some will. Some do like that whole chase thing.... but frankly those women aren't for me, then. I'm not expecting us to be madly in love at first sight.... but I'm not going to play games and bend over backwards just trying to get your attention.

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Originally Posted by Hooo! [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Ye well but maybe it’s just her way of dealing with the getting hit upon so often.

She can’t even know if she has interest or not
She doesn’t know me- so how would she know?

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Yeah, actually I do agree with you here. It has always been one of my frustrations with the dating world. Being so ridiculously shy, it is already hard enough for me to get comfortable with the idea of asking a woman out. Especially one I don't know all that well. So it doesn't help that there are so many men in the world who are freaking pigs and have ruined it for everybody. (Which, don't misunderstand me. Men aren't pigs for hitting on women... they are pigs for taking it too far.) So, it just makes it even harder for guys like me to build up to asking women out, because part of us knows we'll come across as just another jerk asking out the pretty girl. She probably won't even give us a chance because she'll think us just like every other guy. Which is a shame, really.

I mean, I'm not blaming the world for my own personal inability to get women. At least a large part of that is my own fault in a way. I'm just saying, it sure as Hell doesn't help. Had I been born in a different era in time I'd probably have at least had a fighting chance. ...What the Hell was my point? LOL! Sorry. I kind of went off on a tangent that time. But, I guess my point is I still sort of think there is a healthy balance between giving up too easily and being too persistent to the point of being pushy. Maybe it works for some, but I personally just think actively pursuing somebody you already know is in a relationship falls more in the too pushy side of things. But, again, it isn't like I am an expert.

The thing is that all you know is that they are in A relationship

As I have explained this can have multiple interpretations or reasons.

Showing sincere interest is not pushy in my opinion

Look at all the married people who just need to be reminded of their attractiveness or whatever

Would it be unethical to sleep with a married woman?

No

Would it be unethical for a married person to sleep with someone else? Probably. It depends on whether both people in the relationship would be ok with that. Most wouldn't.

Would it be unethical to flirt with anyone? Definitely not. Ye well maybe if they are a recovering sex addict.

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Originally Posted by Hooo! [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Would it be unethical to sleep with a married woman?

No

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Well, again, I'd have to disagree. I don't see how that is NOT unethical. To me, there's not much more unethical you can get. The married woman herself would certainly be much more unethical for being the one who is married and yet sleeps with somebody else anyway, but that doesn't make the other person in the equation in the free and clear since they aren't the one who is cheating on their partner.

Of course, that is completely different if the married woman is part of an open relationship. Some people do that and then there is nothing unethical about it at all since both married partners agree to the arrangement.

But I don't see how knowingly sleeping with somebody who is married is in NOT completely unethical unless it is an open marriage type situation. I mean, again, I'd even consider it unethical to flirt with somebody you know is married (or even just in a relationship) but I could at least accept the argument that I could be wrong (or that it could be open to personal interpretation) for that. Because, really, flirting CAN just be innocent fun so long as it doesn't cross a line and so long as you aren't told to knock it the Hell off and yet choose to continue anyway.

Truth be told, though.... maybe I'm wrong. It isn't like I have had much/any success in love, so maybe I'm too damned old-fashioned to succeed in love in the world we live in these days. But... honestly, if that is the case I think I'm okay with that. Because I'd personally rather stick to my morals and beliefs and have to be alone than to compromise them in order to find love by any means necessary. Maybe it works for other people, and as long as they have at least some reasonable boundaries (as you obviously do, Hooo) then I don't begrudge them their differing opinions at all. It just isn't for me.

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Originally Posted by TheEvilJester [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Well, again, I'd have to disagree. I don't see how that is NOT unethical. To me, there's not much more unethical you can get. The married woman herself would certainly be much more unethical for being the one who is married and yet sleeps with somebody else anyway, but that doesn't make the other person in the equation in the free and clear since they aren't the one who is cheating on their partner.

Of course, that is completely different if the married woman is part of an open relationship. Some people do that and then there is nothing unethical about it at all since both married partners agree to the arrangement.

But I don't see how knowingly sleeping with somebody who is married is in NOT completely unethical unless it is an open marriage type situation. I mean, again, I'd even consider it unethical to flirt with somebody you know is married (or even just in a relationship) but I could at least accept the argument that I could be wrong (or that it could be open to personal interpretation) for that. Because, really, flirting CAN just be innocent fun so long as it doesn't cross a line and so long as you aren't told to knock it the Hell off and yet choose to continue anyway.

Truth be told, though.... maybe I'm wrong. It isn't like I have had much/any success in love, so maybe I'm too damned old-fashioned to succeed in love in the world we live in these days. But... honestly, if that is the case I think I'm okay with that. Because I'd personally rather stick to my morals and beliefs and have to be alone than to compromise them in order to find love by any means necessary. Maybe it works for other people, and as long as they have at least some reasonable boundaries (as you obviously do, Hooo) then I don't begrudge them their differing opinions at all. It just isn't for me.

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I agree. But I think we might just have to agree to disagree with Hooo here.

The only pro to this situation would be that the guy helped show that the woman lacks loyalty and he's saved me more time in my life. Lol

I still wouldn't consider it to be a cool thing though. I think it's important to not only establish respect and boundaries for your own relationships, but also for those of others.

I preach for guys on here to do that, you see posts of guys trying to wait around or convince someone who's with someone else to be with them.

Life is too short. That's nothing but impending drama.

Again: the married person should respect their marriage. They are responsible for that.
Not you or anyone else

If you would sleep with a person who is cheating on their partner is a different thing and entirely up to you. I probably would not.


We could even carry that example further:
Is it unethical to be in love with a married person?

Again I think it isn't.

Is it unethical for them to be in love with you? I'm not sure. Maybe it is. Maybe it depends on the situation.


The problem is that in your mind marriage and relationship mean something like exclusive happy and eternal

If you look at forced marriages in other countries you will soon see that these will not match your description


Is it unethical to split a happy content couple up? Yes for sure.
But not every marriage or relationship is that.
And not every person will leave their "situation" (e.g. marriage, partnership, relationship) on their own



Life example: look at the thread by zachi.
Would it be unethical if he slept with the girl?

Is it unethical for you to be in love with a married person?

There I'd sort of lean toward no because generally love is not a choice. You can't help with whom you fall in love (or even just a crush, lust, infatuation, or whatever). So, it isn't like it is unethical if you have fallen in love with the person. Where I think it can be is in how and/or if you choose to act upon it.

Is it unethical for the married person to be in love with somebody other than their spouse? I will again lean towards no for the same reason. Again, generally love isn't a choice. It isn't like you decide "Hey... I'm going to love this person." By the same token, you can't just choose to stop loving somebody. It CAN be a choice to move in the direction of no longer loving them (such as when you break up, or if the situation proves not to be the best for you), but then it takes some time and space for the love to actually slowly fade away. It's not like a light switch you just flip and you are suddenly out of love.

So, again, even for the married person, the possible unethical thing would be in how and/or if they act upon it. In my personal opinion, a married person made a commitment and therefore should deal with that FIRST. Which, COULD ultimately mean they decide their spouse is wrong for them after all, and therefore they proceed with a divorce.

You are 100% right that not every marriage or even every relationship is happy. It's just, I've always personally felt if a relationship is going to end, it is going to end of its own accord. If it wasn't going to end you certainly shouldn't try to make it end. If it was inevitably going to end anyway, you shouldn't egg it on to help it end. Again, though, I don't know if maybe I'm just too old-fashioned.

Also, I don't believe that marriage is like some magical thing where you are always happy and it is always eternal. I believe people CAN wind up married to the wrong person even if they 100% took it seriously and thought they were marrying the right person. I also STRONGLY feel you shouldn't have to be stuck in an unhappy marriage forever simply because you made that mistake. So, I do think marriages can and should end when they turn out to be the wrong couple... but I've just always felt they should end first (at least in as far as the couple has agreed they are getting a divorce) before either party enters into anything new.

In Zachi's case, I think it WOULD have been unethical for him to sleep with her while she was with the other guy. She's not with the other guy anymore, though, she's back with Zachi. So it wouldn't be unethical now.

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Originally Posted by Mavepanus [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

I love to go camping in the "Alpine Valley" with the girls from https://escortmilan.info/ So to say, a mini sex tour. And nature is what: a clean lake, a green forest, everything you need for an excellent holiday

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Camping in the woods with complete strangers for a mini sex tour.
Possibility of getting murdered? 99%.

What a ****ing thrill. Sign me up

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Originally Posted by TheEvilJester [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

It's just, I've always personally felt if a relationship is going to end, it is going to end of its own accord. If it wasn't going to end you certainly shouldn't try to make it end. If it was inevitably going to end anyway, you shouldn't egg it on to help it end. Again, though, I don't know if maybe I'm just too old-fashioned.

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And this is exactly where I disagree what sleeping with someone else means

If the person you sleeping with maybe needs that act to make themselves clear of the end (or continuency?) of their relationship then that is their decision.
If they want it for whatever reason, can I or should I say: no! Your decision is not right, so I will decide what is best for you?
If I want to sleep with them then it's their decision if they want it too
Maybe that's exactly what they need
Maybe you are helping them make the right decision (whatever that may be)
Maybe they are just reclessly damaging a happy relationship
But they are adults
They know what they are doing
And they have every right to decide that on their own. And you have no right whatsoever to decide that for them

I disagree.

Think of it like this. Could you morally sleep with a woman who has a husband and kids waiting at home for her and think that's okay? I couldn't. Even if she's unhappy in her marriage I couldn't. Morally, I think it's wrong. And the people that engage in that, don't be surprised when you get cheated on. You reap what you sow.

I think, people need to do the right thing and end unfulfilling relationships if they're not happy with them.

Not live a dishonest life.

I think that's important to live that way. And the reality is, you should want nothing to do with people that are liars and cheaters if you're looking for a healthy, long term relationship, I will be the first to say that if you think otherwise, you're wasting your time.

People can do whatever they want, yes. But morally, I think that it is wrong.

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Originally Posted by Snow White [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

TheEvilJester can be too kind sometimes. That girl is an emotional mess. When you love someone in the military, that is a very difficult thing. You are either committed or not. She seems desperate for attention and affection. If you are ok with an occasional make out session, then go for it. If you are looking for a serious relationship, I think it is obvious you are not going to find one with her.

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Agree with Snow White. She's an attention wh*** but she's 21 so par for the course.

You also said she been with her bf for 7 years, so she's been dating him long distance since she was 14? And he was 15??? She's far from ready for what you seem to want, if you were smart, you'd recognize this and walk away, but we're always not so smart when it comes to matters of the heart, so good luck.

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Originally Posted by Hooo! [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

And this is exactly where I disagree what sleeping with someone else means

If the person you sleeping with maybe needs that act to make themselves clear of the end (or continuency?) of their relationship then that is their decision.
If they want it for whatever reason, can I or should I say: no! Your decision is not right, so I will decide what is best for you?
If I want to sleep with them then it's their decision if they want it too
Maybe that's exactly what they need
Maybe you are helping them make the right decision (whatever that may be)
Maybe they are just reclessly damaging a happy relationship
But they are adults
They know what they are doing
And they have every right to decide that on their own. And you have no right whatsoever to decide that for them

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I don't personally agree... but I do definitely agree on part of what you said. That it is the responsibility of the person in the relationship (not you as the person outside of the relationship) to decide if they respect their partner enough not to cheat. I still don't personally think that makes it right to be a willing participant. ESPECIALLY if you were the one to instigate the activity. Maybe SLIGHTLY different if the person in a relationship was the one trying to instigate things. Though, I still would want nothing to do with her if it were me.

This has been an interesting conversation, though, I must say. I always enjoy a conversation where people can disagree... and yet do so respectfully. Sadly that is so rare on the internet these days. I mean... I guess it is rare in general... but especially on the internet. LOL!

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Originally Posted by GLYC [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

I disagree.

Think of it like this. Could you morally sleep with a woman who has a husband and kids waiting at home for her and think that's okay? I couldn't. Even if she's unhappy in her marriage I couldn't. Morally, I think it's wrong. And the people that engage in that, don't be surprised when you get cheated on. You reap what you sow.

I think, people need to do the right thing and end unfulfilling relationships if they're not happy with them.

Not live a dishonest life.

I think that's important to live that way. And the reality is, you should want nothing to do with people that are liars and cheaters if you're looking for a healthy, long term relationship, I will be the first to say that if you think otherwise, you're wasting your time.

People can do whatever they want, yes. But morally, I think that it is wrong.

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Yeah, GLYC pretty much mirrors my own thoughts here. I also sort of think of it like this.... say for example a friend of mine robs a bunch of local businesses and gets quite a bit of money out of the deal. I know he has stolen that money. My friend then offers to buy me something nice/expensive with the money. Well.... I didn't steal the money, he did. So, does that make it okay for me to accept his "gift?" Some might say yes, I personally say no. I would not be okay with accepting anything stolen or that came from stolen money. I sort of think of it similar to that. Sure, if you sleep with somebody who is already in a relationship, YOU are not the one cheating. You're not in a relationship, they are. But, like I said, I would just personally feel no less bad. Heck, I'd maybe even feel worse because instead of screwing up my own life, I'm screwing up two other people's lives. Okay, so truthfully the cheating woman is the one screwing up her own life and that of her partner... but I'd not feel right participating in said drama.

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Originally Posted by MsLondonB [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Agree with Snow White. She's an attention wh*** but she's 21 so par for the course.

You also said she been with her bf for 7 years, so she's been dating him long distance since she was 14? And he was 15??? She's far from ready for what you seem to want, if you were smart, you'd recognize this and walk away, but we're always not so smart when it comes to matters of the heart, so good luck.

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I will admit that I agree that is most likely the conclusion here. Even if I do sometimes try to give the benefit of the doubt a little bit, it doesn't mean I don't recognize when it seems like things probably aren't right. It's just you never really do know. I tend not to like to deal in absolutes because life is rarely absolute. But, yes, I agree that it seems the most likely conclusion here that he'd be better off moving on and finding somebody who would appreciate him. If that is the case, I'm sure our OP will see that in time. You are right that sometimes we can't help what our heart wants. Sometimes it just takes time and space to let those feelings fade and see what a mistake the person would have been.

And i understand your point of view exactly
And i agree

However if disagree with the notion that cheating always is bad or immoral or whatever. I think that in an idealistic world that may be. But I'm more pragmatic

I once saw a documentary about brothels where one man said he was married. And he loved his wife. But the sex just sucked (if he ever got some) and he needed that. If he wouldn't be going to the hookers his marriage would already have ended.

I knew a girl who knew her relationship was shaky and it wouldn't last. But the thing that finally made her realize that she needs to end the relationship was the fact that her imagination was captured by another man, with whom she has been faithfully happy the last 10 years.


Those are fundamentally different to the man having a wife and lying to her and his sidegirls, who is destroying a relationship because he thinks it's nice. Or a woman who has different lovers every now and then just because her man is unknowingky little more than a money machine to her

And that's what I'm mean. It depends on the relationship in question. It depends on how this relationship should be treated and honored. And it depends on whether you would help someone treat their relationship in a certain way.

Just to assume to sleep with someone else even though you are married or in a relationship is immoral, would be making the world more easy than it really is

I mean, I absolutely can understand your examples above. I definitely see the sense in that argument. For example, the guy who goes to brothels because sex with his wife is bad.... but he truly loves her and doesn't want to leave her. Did the documentary happen to mention if she knows he does that, or does he do it in secret? That would also, to me, be a big difference. Because, in my opinion, you shouldn't have secrets like that from the person you are supposed to love most. I'd more so say if the sex is so bad then they should talk about it. Maybe there are things that could make it better, maybe they can have an "open relationship" sort of agreement... or ultimately maybe they aren't right for each other. I don't think sex should be THE most important part of a relationship, but if two people are sexually incompatible that could be a deal breaker.

As for the girl you know, I'm curious did she cheat first and THEN discover she needed to end the relationship? Or was it merely starting to fall for the other guy that made her realize it and so she then ended her relationship before doing anything with the new guy? Because, again, to me that would also make a big difference. In my opinion, it isn't necessarily wrong if you fall for somebody else while still in a relationship because you can't help feelings you don't control. Especially if we are talking about a relationship that isn't going to last for whatever reason. Then, sometimes discovering somebody who could be a better match can be the catalyst to decide that the relationship is wrong after all. It's just, again, I personally feel you should decide that and deal with that FIRST, then consider pursuing something new.

But, I do definitely agree with you that those examples are fundamentally very different from the worst case scenario type examples you shared. Because, truthfully, whether I agree with it or no, there is a big difference between somebody thinking they are doing the wrong thing for the right reasons.... and somebody just doing the wrong thing because they simply don't care. We definitely agree on that part.