Me
and
You.
When will we ever be
together?
You promised it will be now.
Instead its never
Printable View
Me
and
You.
When will we ever be
together?
You promised it will be now.
Instead its never
too simple and too pushy.feelings are the key to god poetry
I like it.
Oh come on,any romance ,no.....,it needs a bit of ,redecorating
^
if you knew anything about art in general is that you either appreciate it or dont,YOU, never change what has been made.
that's not true. Sure, not all people will appreciate the same thing nor will they agree on what good art is, but it is the job of the artist to CREATE art, and that implies some effort and craft.Quote:
Originally Posted by cuddlemonster [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
3 words really, and what do they say? Nothing at all, they just take up space. It's already implied below that there are 2 people in the situation, so what is the purpose of those 3 words?Quote:
Me
and
You.
Too vague and simple. It's one question and one statement. I could go into the grammatical incorrectness, but I've already said too much :D I know this isn't a forum for critique, but I can't help myself when someone brings up the whole "it's not my fault you don't like it, it's art and I don't want to change it"Quote:
When will we ever be
together?
You promised it will be now.
Instead its never
To each HIS own.
sorry, but spouting back quotes doesn't work
poetry is not for one person
^
lol poetry is not for one person??? R U SOME POETRY NAZI???? lol wow... in the past ive wrote poems for just 1 person... THERE I SAID IT... R U going to put me in an oven?
No, I've just been writing poetry for 3/4 of my life and have taken poetry courses at university level and its something I'm well read on.
Once you write a poem and public show it, it's no longer for one person. If you want to write it for yourself only, OK, but don't expect everyone else to get the same kick from it or to be remotely affected by it. You may write something personal, like the above, but that does not qualify as a poem, Stringing words together is not poetry.
I'm not saying you aren't capable of writing a poem, I'm saying what you posted here is not a poem.
You fail to impress me by saying you studied and the University level. trying to develop credibilty on the web is futile.
so much depends
upon
a red wheel
barrow
glazed with rain
water
beside the white
chickens.
-William Carlos
Well you sure as hell aren't impressing me.
Don't try to compare your poem to this one. What you fail to realise is that this poem is packed with imagery - that of a wheelbarrow, a common place object that is emphasised by this poem. Why is it emphasised? Why, that's the question that makes this poem clever. How is it emphasised? The rain glazing it and it's placement (it being red) among white chickens (contrasting).
The first stanza of this poem urges to read along and find out what depends on it, and why. The following 3 stanzas are each offering an image. There is enjambment, there is flow, there is vivid imagery.
Your poem has a few statements, no imagery, and no poetic technique except for one useless rhyme. Therefore, it is no comparison to the one above.
I really couldn't care less what you think of my credibility, but you asked whether I was a poem nazi and I answered you.
wow. you totally missed the main idea of that poem.
WHY does so much depend on the wheelbarrel? TELL ME.... i know why, i know why so much depends on it... AND you... YOU DONT... HA HA! lol. no matter how much you try you are to narrow minded to know. this isnt about my lil poem its about your narrowmindedness and your lack of creativity and common sense. peace.
Yes, and your little work up there is the epitome of creativeness I bet.
Am I really going to believe that you know the point of this poem, you who can't even get the point of poetry in the first place, who doesn't even get the point why your 'poem' isn't a poem, who doesn't even understand or rebutt my main arguments?
Until you give me a reason why your poem is any good (apart from "it means something to me and i don't want to change it") you're going to be a total ignoramus.
But whatever, do what you want and get back to me when someone other than your friends and family and clueless teens say your poem is any good.
Actually, he doesn't need to defend it. This isn't the "eviscerate me" thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by miSSleepy [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
You're coming very close to bashing, miSSy. Are you just particularly passionate about poetry, or what?
No,I agree with miss sleepy,its not poetry,admittedly I didnt get a degree in poetry like her,but I did get A* in my coursework for it and won a poetry competition.hey,if he didnt wan us to comment on it,then why did he post it here,and besides,what doesit tell u about the feelings involved,nothing!it could be about a pair of magnets for all we know
Yes I know this isn't the forum for critiquing poetry as such, but it is supposed to induce comments, isn't it? That's what I did: I have comments about the poem and why I didn't like it (apart from me calling him an ignoramus at the end there was absolutely nothing personal, it was all about the poem) and he proceeed to defend it. No one asked him to. I didn't agree with the defence, so he called me narrowminded, said I lacked creativity and common sense. Is that not close to bashing?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gigabitch [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
But yes, I AM passionate about writing in general, and I'm too used to be in critiquing environments that I got tempted to do so here. I guess this forum is mainly for sharing.
let me explain my poem.
the words ME AND YOU are on separate lines. those lines happen to have space between them, SPACE. My ex and i were in a 6 year long distance relationship, LONG DISTANCE. the space represents that.
At the end of the word you, is a PERIOD. the period signifies completion of you. with you refering to her, basically she is my completion of searching for love.
in the last line, theres is no period, the "Instead its never" line is open, to symbolize that never is not completed, therefore stating that there is a possibility although never is assumed.
there, for those of you who cant see that there you go, go look at other simple poems out there, check up on ernest hemming ways short stories and you will see so much undiscovered content that only can rediscovered through the most of concentration.
i expect people to bash, simply for the fact that everyone is different. I am annoyed with people who TRY To establish credability when it comes to poetry, it is IRONY. POETRY IS ****ING SUBJECTIVE and to those of you who bash it or like it, GOOD FOR YOU, but to those of you who resolve to belittling a poem that you dont like THANK YOU FOR SHOWING ME that STUPIDITY is as COMMON as day and night. peace.
Sorry Missy, but I agree w/Giga & CM. Poetry *can* be only for the writer. If you want to pull internet rank, one of my relatives is an English & writing prof. He's a Rhodes scholar w/a number of published poetry books (truth). I think he would say that writing poetry is often a very personal experience & doesn't necessarily have to satisfy the criteria of others.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gigabitch [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
Now, if CM asked for specific help as to how to improve according to some academic standard that's one thing. But he didn't so maybe wait a bit before expressing your expertise. There are many paths.
FWIW, I don't agree w/CM's comment about not changing art. Many of the great painting masters changed or redid their work (there's a story about an older Picasso being banned from a museum for trying to fix his early paintings--possibly apocryphal, but I can see it happening).
Besides, haven't you two read 'The Fountainhead', lol? Self-expression to satisfy the solitary ego, and all that?
There's nothing wrong w/saying its a piece of crap that doesn't do anything for you. That's a valid opinion, and yours. But to suggest there are all kinds of tools & rules to apply to improve it, I think, takes away from the sponteneity and mindset of the author.Quote:
Originally Posted by gartlas [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
Mbe he *was* confused, his feelings half-baked w/huge periods of emptiness when he wrote this. Mbe his emotions so overwhelmed his intellect that he could only come up w/monosyllabic words to say what he was thinking. I kinda liked the idea of using the physical spacing of the words for effect. Or mbe he scrawled that in blood on his arm w/a dull penknife... that would imply effort & craft, lol. I'm making this up as I go, of course, but I think you get the idea.
Well...there ARE tooles and rules that need to be applied, believe it or not. The author's sponteneity and mindset has nothing to do with the end product.Quote:
Originally Posted by IndiReloaded [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
the idea is usually to tell the writer WHY the poem is bad, not that it just sux.
Maybe...but so?Quote:
Mbe he *was* confused, his feelings half-baked w/huge periods of emptiness when he wrote this. Mbe his emotions so overwhelmed his intellect that he could only come up w/monosyllabic words to say what he was thinking.
That would imply he's an emo :DQuote:
Or mbe he scrawled that in blood on his arm w/a dull penknife... that would imply effort & craft, lol. I'm making this up as I go, of course, but I think you get the idea.
I get your idea, and for the sake and purpose of this particular forum, it's fine, it's a medium for him to get it off his chest and share etc etc etc
I don't want an explanation of your poem, it's too late. Your poem has to stand for itself, like a joke. Explain a joke, and you've ruined it.Quote:
Originally Posted by cuddlemonster [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
The most stupid people are those who don't know it mateQuote:
Originally Posted by cuddlemonster [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
You have not seen me bash, would you like me to?
Look out there. There is a thing called a publishing industry. They're choosy, aren't they? About 3% of writings get published. Those that do are SKILLED AND PROFESSIONALS. If anyone could get anything published, they would.
There is a whole wide world of writing out there that you are clueless about, and you (like many many others who like to write) believe that if it's personal, emotional, from your heart, then it's good. That's true, IF you use skill as well. Ever seen movie with a great plot and intentions, but it was just crap? It's like that. If you don't have the skill to portray your personal emotion from your heart, then your poem is like that movie.
And there are movies that are very well made, but really, the plot sux, and so does the moral (if there is one) but you sit through it anyway, just because. Because it was well made.
A poem can do this as well, if the writer s very skilled. He/she feigns the emotion and makes the reader BELIEVE these emotions come from the heart. But something lacks: soul.
But put those two together, and you have potential for a good poem.
You obviously have the soul and the will. Why not use that will to acknowledge that you need to get better, and strive to get better, instead of resisting all critique because it's unfavourable to you.
Of course, if you're really not THAT into poetry and this was just a one off stab at it, or if you don't want to get better and just prefer to 'share' for your own sake... disregard that advice.
That NEED be applied? No, I don't believe it. The use of tools in any craft is always optional. One of the thiings that happens in an academic journey is the realization that all those 'rules' are only guides that represent the past experience of others. Including your professors who are most likely biased toward a particular style. Who may, or may not , know better than you do.Quote:
Originally Posted by miSSleepy [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
But I never did well in arts courses. I resented the one ethics course I had to take as a graduate student b/c it kept me out of the lab. My Dept head nearly failed me b/c I wasn't showing up. So I caved; went to the bare minimum of classes to pass & brought a book to read.
So I may not be the best person to have this argument with. ;)
Of course it needs to be applied.Quote:
Originally Posted by IndiReloaded [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
Can you make furniture without skills or tools? Can you paint a picture without a brush or proper technique? No ...
To some extent. However, past experiences and past styles of writing are very different to that of today's rules and styles. And it's not so much as applying the rules in the case of this thread, but applying some sort of sufficient technique.Quote:
One of the thiings that happens in an academic journey is the realization that all those 'rules' are only guides that represent the past experience of others.
No one can inherently write
I've had many professors, and they've all been different, all preferring different things. I haven't only confined myself to university professors either. There's a lot of opinion out there. Just as there is lots of opinion about what a good painting looks like, there's always a common belief: you need SKILL, and TOOLS. Once you got them, then you can start breaking the rules.Quote:
Including your professors who are most likely biased toward a particular style. Who may, or may not , know better than you do.
If this thread had gone too far, maybe it should be locked. I'm happy to stop. But as long as people keep posting I will keep responding...:D
Yes, actually I can. I might choose to simply throw paint into a strong wind onto a canvas, from a ladder of varying heights. No tools whatever required.Quote:
Originally Posted by miSSleepy [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
Or I might choose to use acid to etch out patterns on furniture, rather than using traditional tools. You're only limited by your imagination.
But I suspect you're still an undergraduate, right? You are still in the absorption phase rather than the independent thinking phase, I perceive. If you are only interesting in producing work that will by judged by *others* standards, then you are on the right path. Stick to the tried & true rules & the masses will reward you. If you are interesting in originality, tho, and by that I mean *true* innovation, then you will need to find a way out of the box your are currently in. Its a journey we're all on tho, and some do this better than others. Just something to think about. Or not, as you wish.
the ladder is a tool, the acid is a tool - I never said traditional tools need to be used. I said tools.Quote:
Originally Posted by IndiReloaded [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
I believe you yourself admitted that you're not the one to have this argument.Quote:
But I suspect you're still an undergraduate, right? You are still in the absorption phase rather than the independent thinking phase, I perceive. If you are only interesting in producing work that will by judged by *others* standards, then you are on the right path. Stick to the tried & true rules & the masses will reward you. If you are interesting in originality, tho, and by that I mean *true* innovation, then you will need to find a way out of the box your are currently in. Its a journey we're all on tho, and some do this better than others. Just something to think about. Or not, as you wish.
I'm not an undergraduate in creative writing, I'm an undergraduate in teaching. But that has little to do with whether one is at the independant thinking phase, as you put it. This thread isn't about my writing, it's about one single poem the OP posted - and you cannot tell me that that poem is original and innovative.
But of course I'm interested in originality, who isn't? Yet originality isn't something you get inherently by completing a degree, it isn't something you get for a LONG time. Innovation, originality etc come AFTER you learn how to do things by the book, because you need to know the craft inside out.
Once you put something out publicly, it WILL be judged by the masses. Art is there to affect and inspire others, to give them something to think about - and you do this with TOOLS AND TECHNIQUE. If you can't, then you have failed. If you're writing for yourself, put it into a BLOG, your diary, show it to your friends ... but don't expect a stranger to fawn over it.
I'm not in a box here, I'm being realistic. All these notions you're going on about - THAT'S a box.
Great, I'm glad you agree. Now, let's extend your argument... you said in your last post that these need to be applied with "proper technique". Tell me, what's the 'proper technique for throwing paint onto a canvas?Quote:
Originally Posted by miSSleepy [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
You're not convincing anyone here Missy, least of all me. Esp when I know your posts are coming from the background of these kinds of gems:
Simply wrong. And you contradicted yourself later on this.Quote:
poetry is not for one person
Condescending sarcasm.Quote:
your little work up there is the epitome of creativeness I bet.
Direct insults. You say you are in education? God, I hope you don't motivate your students this way.Quote:
Until you give me a reason why your poem is any good... you're going to be a total ignoramus.
Puts downs.Quote:
no poetic technique except for one useless rhyme.
Yes, I would say you have a definite box problem. Here's some food for thought, Missy. You could have said what you thought was *good* about his poem & then made suggestions about how to make it better.
Come to think of it, why don't you post some of your own stuff on here? There's at least a couple of published authors on here (including myself). Let's see if you can take as good as you give. Show everyone evidence of your talent & knowledge.
No? I thought not.
Take out the when, contract it will to it'dQuote:
Originally Posted by cuddlemonster [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
i like it :)
PS - this statement is crap:
Bullshit. This is what the 'experts' want you to believe. So you get immersed in their way of doing things. Its a way of perpetuating the system and it provides a sense of security for those who aren't comfortable with stepping outside 'the box'. The true innovators (which is only about 2% of the population, at least genetically) can see crap (or good ideas) for what they are almost immediately. And they start pushing boundaries for things almost immediately upon starting their craft. Anyone who tries to dissuade you of doing that isn't really interested in helping you progress. The real use of formal training, in my opinion, is merely to make sure you aren't reinventing the wheel. That, and learning some discipline.Quote:
Innovation, originality etc come AFTER you learn how to do things by the book, because you need to know the craft inside out.
Again, I'm a scientist, not an artist. But I think there's a lot of creativity & boundary-pushing required for both. In that respect, I think there's some common ground.
FWIW
Yes I'm sure there's some conspiracy here,. the experts are trying to control the world of art because... hmm, well, why?Quote:
Originally Posted by IndiReloaded [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
because:
Yeh...right. I'm sure it's all worth the bother.Quote:
Its a way of perpetuating the system and it provides a sense of security for those who aren't comfortable with stepping outside 'the box'.
Look, whatever. You're talking crap, to be honest. I can't debate with you about a topic you haven't got a knowledge about.
You can just stick to being idealistic and I'll stick to being realistic...agree to disagree kind of thing. I'm a cynic after all.
Missleepy, you're studying the art of teaching, right? Well you got a lot of learning to do. Here, we do not expect people to have a college degree to post a poem. A lot of stuff gets published all the time. Formally and informally, whether you like it or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by miSSleepy [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
So if you don't like it, critique it (politely) and suggest how to improve it. That's one way of learning. You can't possibly expect someone to learn something valuable with the context that you posted in?
Indie is correct, and you're grinding your teeth because you can't keep up with the debate. I know this because I am part of the publishing industry. *shrug*
O for pete's sake, I never said he needs to have a college degree! the whole thing about my degree is taken way out of context - the guy I asked if I was a poetry Nazi and I replied that no, I just studied it at univeristy degree.Quote:
Originally Posted by lilwing [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
Everyone else keeps bringing this degree up - NOT ME.
I have, but some people here seem to think that politeness is praise. The guy thinks his poem is fine as it is anyway, so I guess the critique is useless anyway.Quote:
So if you don't like it, critique it (politely) and suggest how to improve it. That's one way of learning.
what context is that? college degree? Again, I never said that he needs to have a college degree.Quote:
You can't possibly expect someone to learn something valuable with the context that you posted in?
You know that I can't keep up because you're in the publishing industry? Come again?Quote:
Indie is correct, and you're grinding your teeth because you can't keep up with the debate. I know this because I am part of the publishing industry. *shrug*
I'm keeping up fine, I have provided something other than uneducated opinion - hell, she said so too, she's a science person.
And please, tell me, what is it that publishers look for?
And tell me also, does this poem move you? Are you emotionally affected by it?
I started on this thread giving critique and acknowledged that it may be out of place. The guy didn't like and blew up. i rebutted. My wording may be harsh at times, often unintentionally, but it was critique, nothing else - so what is the bloomin' problem here?
Teaching children, elementary school - but I guess you could call it an art :french:Quote:
Originally Posted by lilwing [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
We're getting off topic here.Quote:
Originally Posted by miSSleepy [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
1. You heard me.
2. Unless you're studying fine arts, technically, your opinions are *still* uneducated.
3. Too many things to entail in one post. And again, is offtopic. I guess if you want to continue that argument, make yourself a thread and I'll be happy to include what I know.
4. The poem does move me. I think it is good *shrug* however, if I were the one writing it, I'd have all kinds of things to change about it. But it's not mine.
I think this would make a good topic for suggestion, but not necessarily by hijacking this thread.
Give it up LW, Missy is the sort of person that can't see any viewpoint other than her own. And we haven't been skillful in giving her an 'out' so now her pride is at stake as far as needing to defend her position.
Missy, you will say you don't care, but I'm not merely a science person, I happen to be a science expert. With a doctorate from a school in the US that you would shit bricks to be able to attend. I have taught many students over the years, some very close-minded like yourself & I suppose that I'm simply in that mode right now (trying to open your mind a bit). Hoping that you will see something larger in what we are all telling you (Giga, LW & myself all had a problem w/how you approached this thread--go back and read). Given that you are studying at an undergraduate level, I think you would admit you are not yet an expert in your area. In my case, by societal standards, I *am* an expert. The points I make are based on years of experience, not merely my opinion, as is your case.
But, of course, everything you said is right & we are wrong. We don't have any valid points here. I admire your stubborness, if not your intellect. Good luck with that attitude in your teaching career.
Wow this thread was blown up. Damn. I would like to say IMO that anyone who writes anything "good for them", crap to someone but maybe to someone else its good.
Creativity is awesome! The poem threads are a great way for people to express themselves. A few years ago so many people were writing and were writing from their heart, no one on here dogged that person for whatever they wrote, but knew it was from within. No one was looking for anyone to critique them or praise them, but an outlet.
My poems are so not even there, and I would never consider trying to publish them, I just wrote out my feelings in a Mickey Mouse Manner. But there were so many creative people on here a few ago's it was amazing the creativity they shared.
My husband had his first novel published this last year and was released this past Aug. I know how difficult it is to get things published through the right people. I met the owner of Tor Publishing in NY, its an amazing world. Chris and I are suppose to spend the weekend with Douglas Preston on his boat up in Maine. Its a crazy world and it takes so long. It was amazing to walk into a Barns and Nobles and see my husbands book on the shelf.
Indi, I would love to throw some paint in the wind! HUGE canvas and have no ryhme or reason to doing it.
Just let yourself go!
Anyway, I give koodoos to anyone for sharing their creativity on here.
This is the translation of my favorite poem:
A Dog After Love
Yehuda Amichai
After you left me
I let a dog smell at
My chest and my belly. It will fill its nose
And set out to find you.
I hope it will tear the
Testicles of your lover and bite off his penis
Or at least
Will bring me your stockings between his teeth.
oh my gawd im rolling on the floor Vashti! I had written a bad ass poem similar to that a few years ago, I wish I had never taken that off of here.