Guys doesn't want to get married/kids

Wanted some advice...Sorry if it's too long...

My bf was single for 4 years before we were together. When we were friends, he told me he would like to be single FOREVER. After we started hanging out for 6 months, we fell for each other. Now we have already been together for almost 1.5 years now. (Some background information: My bf is Brit & late 30s, I am Chinese & late 20s both living in Hong Kong.)

When we started officially dating, things were horrible. I was quite needy and wanted to be with him all the time; He was very independent and liked his own space always. We would fight every 2 weeks literally! After we dated for about half a year (ie one year ago), one night stupid me started to ask him questions regarding marriage and kids. Of course that didn't go well...He told me he does NOT believe in marriage and has no plan for kids. He does not even want to share his flat with any gf!! *He did mention he could date me forever!* That night we were so close to be broken up!!

After that night, I told myself that he's not the one, I become independent, I stop asking him to spend time with me, show little interest in him, I even bought my own flat and not expecting anything from him. Basically I was preparing a breakup. Surprisingly, when I become less needy, he started to call more, care more, ask me to stay at his flat more, want me to spend time with him more - overall treats me MUCH better and takes me less for granted :D

We have been together for 1.5 years now. Within the last 0.5 year, we seldom fight. We spend quite a lot of time together. He treats me real well - took me on vacations, got me a 37" LCD for Xmas, always buys me dinners etc. He cares a lot for me and really loves and serious about me I can tell. We feel very *natural* to be with each other. NO we never mention a word about "marriage" or "kids" ever again!!

I am very happy to be with him at the moment. I slowly convince myself that “marriage” isn’t important as most couples get divorce these days anyways, and I still not sure whether I want to have kids yet. My question is should I worry much about
“marriage” and “kids”? I so envy my girlfriends who are married, planning a big wedding, picking up their lovely wedding gown, having a HUGE diamond on their finger etc. What if I break up with my bf in my mid-30s and regret having no kids? Would my bf change his mind about marriage and kids later on as he did change his mind about not having a gf forever! Should I leave him and try to find someone I love, would live with me and marry me later (I still love him a lot and hate to start a relationship over again)?

Any constructive advice would be awesome!

I think he clearly stated that he has no intention of marrying and having a family. If these things are important to you, then you are wasting your time. It really depends on what YOU want at this point. I woudn't count on changing his mind.

For the record - I think giving up children is a HUGE sacrifice. I wouldn't do it.

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Originally Posted by littlemo [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

My bf was single for 4 years before we were together.

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Woah... that's a long time to be single.., and that just spells out someone who has not been sexually satisfied enough to be ready for being with just one person for the rest of his life..

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Originally Posted by littlemo [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

My bf is Brit & late 30s, I am Chinese & late 20s both living in Hong Kong.

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He's starting to get a little old to be a father.. but more importantly.. because we could care less about him.., you're getting a little too old to get married.. The clock is ticking, and you're on the wrong end of the bargaining table to be waiting around.. you don't exactly have the luxury of time..

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Originally Posted by littlemo [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

He told me he does NOT believe in marriage and has no plan for kids. He does not even want to share his flat with any gf!! *He did mention he could date me forever!*

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This is clearly an indication that he is spiteful towards women.. perhaps the result of him feeling that they are the object of his frustration for all these years.. This isn't a guy you want to be with anyway.. And not a guy who will have an open mind towards marriage and children..

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Originally Posted by littlemo [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

After that night, I told myself that he's not the one, I become independent, I stop asking him to spend time with me, show little interest in him, I even bought my own flat and not expecting anything from him. Basically I was preparing a breakup. Surprisingly, when I become less needy, he started to call more, care more, ask me to stay at his flat more, want me to spend time with him more - overall treats me MUCH better and takes me less for granted :D

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Again.. an other sign that he hasn't been too successful in the past..

If you really do want to be married and have children.. this isn't the guy for you.. and he never will be..

Best,

GrkScorp

There's no way that I would stay with a girl that told me she didn't want to get married or have kids. Family is very important to me.

Since we are getting on pretty well for the last half a year and he's a lot more relaxed with me now (yes my time is ticking i know!), u think it's wise for me to bring up the kids/marriage topic again or i would be asking for trouble? You think if a man loves a girl enough, he would change his mind to satisfy the girl? Or since I don't really know what I want, I should just keep my mouth shut until the right time comes?!

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Originally Posted by littlemo [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

u think it's wise for me to bring up the kids/marriage topic again or i would be asking for trouble?

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You should learn to bring up this topic indirectly.. VERY indirectly.. especially considering his reaction the first time.. But, based on everything you said so far.. this isn't a man who would want to do this in his life right now..

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Originally Posted by littlemo [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

You think if a man loves a girl enough, he would change his mind to satisfy the girl?

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Yes... if a man loves a girl enough, he can move mountains.. just to make her happy.. But that's not the point.. The point is if HE wants to get married and have kids.. not if he wants to make you happy.. You're thinking the wrong way.. If he gets married and has kids just to make you happy.. and that's not what he wants to do.. then there will come a time where he will find himself trapped and unhappy.. And you don't want to be in that situation, especially with kids..

Ultimately, if he doesn't want a family but you do, you need to move on while you can.

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Originally Posted by littlemo [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Since we are getting on pretty well for the last half a year and he's a lot more relaxed with me now (yes my time is ticking i know!), u think it's wise for me to bring up the kids/marriage topic again or i would be asking for trouble? You think if a man loves a girl enough, he would change his mind to satisfy the girl? Or since I don't really know what I want, I should just keep my mouth shut until the right time comes?!

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No, I've never seen a man who was clear about not wanting a family change his mind.

Would it be "asking for trouble" to bring it up? Who cares? You have some decisions to make. Are you always so mousy? This is your LIFE. Don't be a passive bystander and let other people decide you future.

You aren't too old to be getting married. Statistics show that the closer you are to 30 when marrying, the more likely it is the marriage will last. Grk just thinks women are all washed up when they are 30 because he doesn't know any better.

However, you ARE too old to continue letting others make important decisions (like whether or not you will have kids).

Don't worry about making trouble. Worry about wasting your time with someone who doesn't share your goals.

Maybe he has an impression that women are actually very egoistic in the sense of marriage since they only want children and a steady income to support them.

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Originally Posted by vashti [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

You aren't too old to be getting married. Statistics show that the closer you are to 30 when marrying, the more likely it is the marriage will last. Grk just thinks women are all washed up when they are 30 because he doesn't know any better.

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Ad hominem.. plus, since when is that what Grk thinks about women in their 30's? You also forgot to quote the statistics for a fair coin toss! :P

Anyway.. Those statistics make sense.., so there's no need to be a ballbuster and say something catty like "source?"

But the reason 30 is kind of old.. is not because your marriage is likely to fail.. it is likely to succeed.. you're hopefully more mature with age.. the issue is.., which guy wants you at 30? Which guy wants you at 31.. 32.. 33.. 34.. 35.. 36.. 37.. 38.. 39..?

For him.. being in his "late" 30's and not married is not at all the norm.. Pull up some statistics on the average age of guys getting married in Hong Kong.. Now.., those guys don't want someone the same exact age or older than them.. they are in fact looking for someone younger..

Let's say for your sake.. that the average age is 33.. a woman who is 29 is just barely a candidate.. if one at all..

So yes.. your clock IS ticking.. and that's why.. it has nothing to do with making your marriage work out.. that's a side distraction argument because the truth is a little hard to accept.. but it's not an acceptable solution to the problem, to simply choose to ignore or run away from the problem by throwing distractions at it.. because you're in fact in your late 20's.. and it's not exactly the easiest thing in the world to find a guy who wants to find someone in her early 30's to get married to.. not that is doesn't happen.. it does happen.. and there are guys who like taking a dump on someone's chest to get off.. and people do get struck by lightning 3 times in the same day and live to tell the tale.. but in large.. the odds are against you.. and they grow more against you by the day..

If you're also planning on having kids.. don't forget to consider some statistics that matter.. the statistics on birth defects.. after age 33 for women.. the rate of birth defects significantly rises.. If you're planning on having kids.. don't expect to put on the ring and start procreating.. It will take time to find an other guy.. and it will take time to get married.. and it will take time to make the choice to start a family.. and time isn't something you have a whole lot of right now.. you're in your late 20's.. age 33 isn't too far away..

If you're honestly thinking that you want to get married.. then yesterday was already too late.. You should ignore how happy you are NOW with him.. and think about how happy you will be in 1 year from now.. when you're still not married, and older, and it will now be harder for you to get married.. When you can picture that clearly.. and take as much time as you need to really picture that clearly.. You'll start to realize more and more.. exactly what you should do if marriage is that important to you.. And you should start looking for someone else who is ready, willing, and able to get married.. now..

Best,

GrkScorp

To the OP, for perspective:

GrkS is only 23, has never been married & has scant experience with longterm relationships of the sort you are in. His knowledge is merely theoretical, not based on experience, which is why he dislikes when asked about his 'source' for advice. Don't believe everything you read.

I agree w/Vash. Like her, I've been married a loooong time & have seen many couples over the years. IMO, she's right; men don't usually change their minds about this kind of thing, esp at his age. He isn't some young 20-something spouting off about 'never getting married' b/c he doesn't know what he's saying. He's given the subject thought & has made his decision as a mature adult. Don't delude yourself into thinking you're 'the one who can change his mind'. You can't. Only he can change his mind & he's already said that 'ain't happening'. It is what it is.

So. You need to start thinking about finding someone more aligned w/your needs. Views on family & marriage are one of the most important, basic things a couple needs to agree on to have a solid relationship. If he's not meeting you on this, you're going to end up in a bitter power struggle if you stay together.

He's helped you, indirectly, to become more self-aware & self-sufficient. This is a wonderful gift (even if you never thought of it as such) & something you should be thankful for. Sometimes, the most important lessons are the ones that drag us through a 'ring of fire' and force us to become better people on the other side.

You sound like a beautiful, strong lady who is coming into her own. Find someone who will appreciate those qualities in a way you both find mutually satisfying. Don't settle for less. Good luck!

I agree with Vashti on this one. If he has told you he doesn't want kids, well, you're losing your time.

It's wishful thinking to think that he'd change his mind at his age. He's comfortable cause he thinks you're okay with the way things are now. You may be happy but deep down inside you still want to go through the whole nine yards of marriage and kids. I agree with Indi, you should find someone who is more aligned with your needs.

It's not like there aren't other guys in Hong Kong. Next time you're walking down the street, think about the fact that you're likely to pass by someone who would LOVE to have kids with you, but you don't know it because you're wasting your time with the Perpetual Bachelor.

I think grk likes to instill insecurity in women because it makes it more likely that out of sheer desperation, they will settle for less than they deserve, thereby increasing the chances for silly young men to make a match.

Here is a source, Grk. If you don't like this one, it is easy enough to find another. It's common knowledge that people in their 20s have a very high divorce rate. [url]http://www.divorcepeers.com/stats38.htm[/url]

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Originally Posted by vashti [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Here is a source, Grk. If you don't like this one, it is easy enough to find another. It's common knowledge that people in their 20s have a very high divorce rate. [url]http://www.divorcepeers.com/stats38.htm[/url]

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You're bouncing the topic around.. again (ad hominem).. because you don't have faith in your argument.. and because going to that argument would be going down a losing road.. it's easier to assert the fact that you're married as if it adds to the substance of your argument in some way..

Tell me.. please do.. what have I said that is "wrong"? You spend so much time trying to discredit because of age and marital status.. but didn't dare bother going into directly saying "you said ____, and ___ is wrong.. because.."

When you fail to directly find anything wrong with what's said.. you rush to jump into your ad hominem fallacy.. and throw the fact that you're married around to create the illusion that is directly relates somehow..

She's not talking about a married life.. she's not married.. She wants to be.. and as a guy.. and through talking with other guys.. and knowing other guys.. most guys would like to be married by age 35.. I would personally start looking from age 31.. but wouldn't be ready to go into marriage before age 33.. And the vast majority of men would like a younger wife.. and if she's in her late 20's.. her clock is ticking.. end of story.. How long before she finds an other guy? And what if it doesn't work out with him? There's very little room for error.. Every moment counts.. and right now.. she's wasting her time with someone who doesn't want to get married or have kids.. nor can she reasonably expect to in the future..

You can now all try to comfort her by throwing around other distractions.. meaningless statistics.. and vaguely related philosophical topics.. but at the end of the day.. no matter what you say.. the reality still remains.. that her clock is ticking.. and that being the case.. it's not a smart move to be with a guy who is "just wasting her time"..

We're both saying the same thing:

- This guy isn't ready to get married
- She should leave him and find someone else
- She should stop wasting her time with him

So please.. tell me where the problem is within the argument.. no.. not a bunch of organized "thanks".. or "GrkScorp is pooey.. he doesn't know what he's talking about.. we're married.. therefore, from that alone.. in and of itself.. we're better than him.. blah blah".. seriously.. take a look at the substance.., i'm interested to know where you feel that the substance of what you and me are saying diverge at some point..

( Welcome back Indi ;) )

Best,

GrkScorp

Marriage shouldn't be a part of a life plan, that is why so many people end up getting divorced, because they think that they have to get married before a certain age, etc.
Marriage is much more than a big party with a pretty dress and a ring, its about committing for the rest of your life to the person that you love. If this sounds attractive to you, then by all means, keep the option open.
Having kids on the other hand, is something you should probably decide whether you want to do, because you only have a specific window of time to do it.
DON'T make the decision not to have kids based upon the fact that your mate doesn't want to. You may end up regretting this, you should make the decision based on your own desires. Have you always wanted to be a mother? Do you like kids? Do you mind giving up your freedom and settling down to be a mom? Are you ready to put your kids first before anything else?
If so, then cut your ties with this guy now, because he won't change his mind.
To be honest, he sounds like kind of a jerk. It is very immature for a 30+ man to be so defensive about you bringing up marriage and kids. He should at least be able to communicate his feelings without freaking out.

Grk - I won't pick your entire post apart bit by bit (it would take more effort than I care to exert), but if you look back, you will see that nowhere did I mention either your marital status or my own. My issue with your post is that it insinuates that women her age should be feeling a little desperate. I think that is retarded.

Well, I believe that you can get married at any point in your life, it's not against the law to marry over a certain age is it?
And it's one of the most beautiful things in this world and the biggest compliment someone could receive.

It seems as though this man has had problems with past relationships. Has he ever been married before? Maybe he had problems within past relationships or that something bad happended to a previous partner which he hasn't be able to talk about and because of these failed relationships, he swore to himself never to get a gf again as he didn't want another failure.

I would say this could be why he doesn't want to get married. He may believe it just won't work for him or he may believe it's too much hassel. Maybe he is worried he won't be able to give you what you need but wants to be with you because you have shown him there is still hope for him (there he is believing he'll be alone forever, until you show up ;)
He also changed his behaviour as you became less attentive towards him which to me, showed that he feared losing you and he feared his suspicions of never having a successful relationship being proven right - and so he changed for you.

And because of this, I believe it is worth bringing up the subject to see how he feels about it and let him know how much it means to you to spend the rest of your life with him and that you chose him to be with until the end:)
If he has a negative reaction, I would explain to him that you really would like to marry and have children and so if he can't give that to you, you'll have to find somebody else - (try not to make this sound like blackmail though "If you don't marry me, I'm gonna leave you forever!!!!" - avoid that kind of sentence :D)

This is your life, and I hope in the end you make the right choice. Don't be afraid of his reaction, the longer you leave it, the more it'll eat you up inside.

All the best :)

X

if you want children, the worst thing to do is spend your fertile years with a guy who doesn't want any.

he won't change, says my crystal ball.

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Originally Posted by vashti [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

My issue with your post is that it insinuates that women her age should be feeling a little desperate. I think that is retarded.

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What?!?!?!?

Desperate? No.. not at all anywhere or anything near to that.. Vash.. I see the misunderstanding now.. and I can see the well justified hostility..

She is in her upper 20's.. wants to get married and have children.. he doesn't want to do either.. nor will.. those are our givens.. and that's where things get interesting..

We can sit here talking about love.. and how she can try to work things out with him.. and all that.. but that would be a waste of time.. HER time.. and time is valuable..

The stand I take.. is that she should leave him.. because a second spent with him (a man who is not interested in getting married or having kids).. is a second that could be spent searching for a guy who is.. or even a second spent "with" a guy who is.. interested, ready, willing, and able.. to get married and have kids..

Where is Goose to talk about "risk".. younger people can afford to take risk.. older people can't.. This guy is screwing her over slowly.. and she doesn't even realize it.. what I don't want.. and I think we all don't want.. is for her to wake up one day.. years down the line.. and realize that she's just wasted years of her life with a defective male.. who doesn't want to get married.. nor have kids.. and is now in a weaker bargaining position to look for other guys who are..

I'm sorry.. but I have zero sympathy for guys like that.. because guys like that suffer from a deep hate for women as the result of them being a loser their whole life.. And it's very hard to break out of that mode once a guy falls in it.. She shouldn't have to bear the aftermath of a lifetime of his mistakes and misfortune..

The OP's needs come first.. and it's not exactly a childish fantasy to want to get married and have children.. It's actually pretty sad to hear of a guy who is almost 40 and doesn't want to settle down.. but would get her a 37" LCD as a gift.. I don't know why she's still with him, much less, loves him to be quite honest..

Do you really need to come online and have a bunch of people tell you the same thing? That it's a mistake and a waste of your time to be with someone who isn't serious about marriage and having kids at his age? Find someone younger, better looking, richer, and who's ready to get married and have kids.. it's Hong Kong, it's not that hard..

Best,

GrkScorp

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Originally Posted by vashti [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

My issue with your post is that it insinuates that women her age should be feeling a little desperate. I think that is retarded.

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I agree with that. I personally don't think women SHOULD be getting married until their late twenties or early thirties. GS, there are PLENTY of guys out there who would readily date a woman in her 30's. I'm 28, and going through my first divorce (from being married TOO YOUNG) and I don't feel the least bit desperate....nor should I. This isn't 1952, you're not expected to have three school aged children and be a homely old bag just because you've turned thirty. Yikes.

There's a lot more older moms these days, and while your risks DO increase (apparently...), I don't know a single older mom with children who have any type of birth defect.

To quote someone who knew more than anybody about everything, even more than our knowitall 'GS/BS':

“Facts an' facts, an' t'ings an t'ings: dem's all a lotta fockin' bullshit. Hear me! Dere is no truth but de One Truth, an' that is the truth of Jah Rastafari.”

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Originally Posted by bluesummer [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

there are PLENTY of guys out there who would readily date a woman in her 30's.

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I know.. i'm one of those guys.. and i'm on the other end of the older-younger relationship..

But time isn't at a standstill.. Today you're 28.. tomorrow you find this great guy.. spend two years with him.. and who is to say that things work out? now all of a sudden you're 30 and single again.. It's not a big deal.. or even an issue at all if you're 18 or 22.. so what? But at 30.. it matters.. a lot..

It works both ways.. but because it's been a male dominated society for thousands of years.. Older men are actually more attractive.. and a guy in his late 30's is still a very attractive prospect.. but come 40's.. things start looking downhill.. (except for George Clooney apparently.. the man who only looks better as he gets older)

Desperate? There's no need to be desperate.. just a need to be more aware and manage your time better.. At that age.. if you're with someone who's not serious about business.. "next!".. you don't have time to waste fooling around.. but that has no bearing on your standards to selecting your partner.. nothing about getting older implies desperation..

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Originally Posted by Lozenger [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

It seems as though this man has had problems with past relationships. Has he ever been married before? Maybe he had problems within past relationships or that something bad happended to a previous partner which he hasn't be able to talk about and because of these failed relationships, he swore to himself never to get a gf again as he didn't want another failure.

X

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No he has never married before. The last girlfriend he had they dated for 3 years and were actually living together. They broke up cuz she cheated on him. He told me he was very heartbroken.

He also told me when that he never plan of getting marry since he was young. He said his parents were married for 30+ years but his dad was in love with another woman the whole time.

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Originally Posted by IndiReloaded [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

To the OP, for perspective:

He's helped you, indirectly, to become more self-aware & self-sufficient. This is a wonderful gift (even if you never thought of it as such) & something you should be thankful for. Sometimes, the most important lessons are the ones that drag us through a 'ring of fire' and force us to become better people on the other side.

You sound like a beautiful, strong lady who is coming into her own. Find someone who will appreciate those qualities in a way you both find mutually satisfying. Don't settle for less. Good luck!

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Thanks for keeping me positive. You are right, I have indeed learnt a lot about myself from being w him. =)

I would say I HAD a very strong personality before. But since my bf has a even STRONGER one (that's why we got into fights all the time before), I have become a lot softer, calmer to compensate him... In a way this is good cuz we have less conflict, but on the other hand I find I am not really being myself sometimes...

Charateristics about my bf...when he's serious, he's very mature, independent, assertive about himself. He knows exactly what he wants ... he has a very stable job and very good income ... he has a very sweet personality and has no problem making friends...While for me, i have been trying to change job, earning is about 20% of his, still trying to figure out "what's next" for my life...

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Originally Posted by littlemo [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

I would say I HAD a very strong personality before. But since my bf has a even STRONGER one (that's why we got into fights all the time before), I have become a lot softer, calmer to compensate him... In a way this is good cuz we have less conflict, but on the other hand I find I am not really being myself sometimes...

.While for me, i have been trying to change job, earning is about 20% of his, still trying to figure out "what's next" for my life...

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Well then, I would say this is good enough reason to leave him so you can marry :)
You should be able to always be yourself around people you care for, don't let him limit your character :)
X

There is some update on my situation. My bf and I had an arguement the other day because of miscommunication and we almost broke up (read my other post about his golf trip if you want details). During our "make up", we talked about future and he once confirmed that he can't give me what I want (family, kids, marriage etc.). He said he hates hassles from gf, he rather to be single again. He said he was MUCH HAPPIER when he was single (maybe he said that because we just had a huge fight?!). I told him I understand but since i still love him a lot, i don't think I can let him go now. Now we are still together, but things are a little strange... I know now there is no future between us, I want to let go but afraid of the emptiness and the loneness. We still love each other a lot and care for each other a lot. I don't know how to let go.... I want to break up when we are still in good shape, but I know it will be harder for both of us to let go if we keep it dragging....Any Advice Please?

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Originally Posted by littlemo [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

During our "make up", we talked about future and he once confirmed that he can't give me what I want (family, kids, marriage etc.). He said he hates hassles from gf, he rather to be single again. He said he was MUCH HAPPIER when he was single Any Advice Please?

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Hassles from girlfriend? Then why is he in a relationship? This guy doesn't sound like good news. He sounds like this guy in my office. This guy makes well over $400,000 a year, has his own house, and is constantly single. That would be great, only that he's 42 years old! He just dates girls, and when they start pushing for marriage, he finds a reason to break things off. There was a girl he was seeing for two whole years, and he actually proposed to her, was engaged for six months, then broke off the engagement, broke up with her and sued her to get the ring back. Guys like this are bad news.

You have to be honest and true to yourself. You have certain needs as a woman, but also as a person reguardless of gender. You are at a point in your life where you want to start a family and be married. He isn't. You are staying with someone who isn't ready to give you what you want, and might never be ready to give you that. I think you have to ask yourself if you're willing to go on in life without ever having a family or your own or ever getting married. If you're not willing to go on life that way, then it just doesn't make sense for you to be willing to waste your time with a man like that. I'm sorry.

I honestly don't see why this man appeals to you. I think you should just accept that you will be sad for a while without him, and move on. You are only wasting your time.

There is no point in dragging the relationship because it appears it will end eventually anyways. You are just wasting your time and child-bearing years with this man.