[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4FpTvp0tgs"]YouTube - Apologists for evil[/ame]
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[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4FpTvp0tgs"]YouTube - Apologists for evil[/ame]
lol that made me snort with laughter. tbh why is he making it *his* fight? i get his perspective because yes women when they visit Muslim countries they are gawked at and made feel uncomfortable unless they abide by their rules of covering their hair. i think the it's ok to expect the same respect here to live like we do without the burqa. it's slightly egotistical to think he has the overall say on what is right and wrong. they have been wearing the burqa for thousands of years since even before the inception of the Muslim religion. it could be considered traditional that can be eliminated if that's what *they* want. but is it really up to *him* to make that judgment?
also how can *he* possibly know whether the women don't want to wear the burqa. i would have loved to hide behind the burqa when i was a spotty teen with massive boobs men glared at with my messing greasy hair. i tell ya, he is making major assumptions here. and the women who don't want to wear it that live in *his* freee country where it is not the *law* to wear it, don't have to. so why ban it?
I agree that the left has in many ways gone too far. Both parties have adopted polarized positions.
I miss moderacy.
Oh, and I hate burqas. That said, I think there are bigger problems to be dealt with in the M.E. than the burqa.
Holy shit...Some of this guy's points are so stupid..The muslim guys think that a woman should be raped if she's not wearing proper clothes..WTF? Very few muslim guys think that way...Also the guys who think that way, maybe they get it from someplace...Why don't you find stats on how many women in US get raped by either their partners or once they go out and meet a guy at a club or party..This guy needs to go and learn more about REAL Islam.
What's the point of the burqa, Asip? Why are women expected to wear it?
The point of it is not to reveal your face/body while you're in public. Women are expected to wear it because as you and i both know how guys are and Islam you should only be sexually visible to your man...If they see a girl that shows a lot of skin, some guys don't just imagine, some guys take things into their own hands.
It IS to prevent men from becoming aroused. The orthodox jewish women have similar restrictions. My rabbi (female) told me they had to be covered down to the wrist because a bent arm looks like an ass, and the men would get aroused. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Gribble [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
Exactly. Apparently Islamic men (and I suppose some Jewish men with elbow fetishes) are incapable of controlling their sexual urges.
The burqa is filth. It's a weak attempt at shifting the blame away from vile rapists and onto women. I'm sorry, I absolutely agree with Condell.
I have no respect for any woman who would willingly subject herself to such an indignity and I am overtly hostile toward any male (I don't say man because being a man involves more than owning a penis) who would expect a woman to dress in such a way because he and his fellows have the restraint and self-control of stray dogs.
I don't care about culture or tradition. It's sickening and misogynistic. It is offensive. It should be looked down on in the same way as other emblems of hate and ignorance.
But that's not really the point of the video and it's not why I felt the need to share.
That picture tells everything...
[Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
I think deep in their hearts, they envy the couple on the left.
Hey Gribble, i don't think Islam is perfect, no religion is...I take certain things from it and use it as a guide to live my life the best possible way. I think there's also something wrong when a person who doesn't believe in much pretends to know a whole lot. When you have the attitude such as "anything goes", there's something seriously wrong with that. Everything in life has rules that when broken someone faces the consequences, i think it will always stay that way.
I believe in a great deal. Prime among my beliefs is the importance of taking responsibility for one's actions.
Women are wonderful. They're beautiful and delicate. Their bodies are works of art. I want every other woman I encounter. Do you know how many women I've forced myself on? How many I've even considered forcing myself on? None. I'd sooner castrate myself.
You're right about one thing: not everything goes. Violence against women doesn't "go". Justifying it because you're a guy and we all "know what guys are like" doesn't go. I'm sick of that way of thinking. Label me an "Islamaphobe" if it makes you happy.
Oh man what happened to your good arguments, Gribble? How can you go against man's natural instinct? If you had a wife and she wore a tiny skirt and let her boobs show so much..and you went out and some guy was coming onto her and she liked it..Would you just watch? Wait let me guess, you're one of those guys who loves seeing your woman with another man? It turns you on...Would you not be man enough and tell her that she should dress appropriately or get lost? You guys are so funny..i swear..Your women are being taken over by black guys, arab guys and because you've lost both your penis and your mind, you can't tell which direction to take so you just keep talking on how we need more rights and so on...
Asip, how much is too much? Apparently in Islam, it's an ankle. We're not talking about boobs hanging out here. We're talking about elbows. I don't like seeing women running around dressed like Hooters girls either, but the burqa is disgusting. Look at it this way: what would you think if there were a religion that required that women dress like whores because that religion taught that all women are just vessels for making more babies and beyond that only serve to meet the needs of men? Would you find it objectionable that they should be forced to dress this way? Would that be more objectionable to you than the reasoning behind it?
Dude, women in Saudi Arabia aren't even allowed to drive cars. There are 13-year-olds in Muslim countries being legally executed for the crime of being raped. If you believe that most of Islam doesn't hate women, how does this system of "justice" remain in place?
Eco, have you ever worn a burqa? From what I understand, they're really difficult to see out of. They're also hella ****ing hot, in the desert, in the summer. I don't think there's anything good about them. What do you think would happen if you tripped over your personal circus tent and fell down, possibly exposing an unacceptable amount of bare leg (let's say three inches of calf)? What do you suppose would happen if a cranky mullah happened to be walking by?
If you wanted to hide your face, you could have worn an Easter Bunny mask. It would have been about as self-respecting as putting on a burqa. Nobody is putting on a burqua every morning because it's what she would want to wear if she were truly free to choose. These women are terribly oppressed.
I like when a woman dresses in a classy way...As long as it's not slutty i don't care...Giga, how about all the women who come over here and still choose to wear the hijab? They shouldn't feel like they need to do it, yet i see it quite a bit..What's wrong with them? Perhaps they see what's being shown by the media and think it's something wrong? Perhaps its wrong that television and magazines and internet teach young kids that it's ok to do so many ****ed up things even though they're only 13! I think that the media brainwashes so many people and then people do a lot of stupid shit...and then we go looking to fix things someplace else when there are problems in our own backyards we should be focusing on.
This 13-year-old is not one of those media-influenced kids that did a "bad thing" is she? Or do you, like Islam, think this was her fault?Quote:
Originally Posted by Asip4u [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
[url]http://current.com/items/89480052_three-men-rape-13-year-old-girl-girl-stoned-to-death-for-adultery.htm[/url]
People are conditioned to believe certain things so yes the media does play a major role because as long as the money is made they'll put anything for people to watch...go talk to the kids whose parents actually know how to talk to their kids and monitor what they do..and then, the ones who have no clue what responsibility is....you'll notice major differences...i don't even know why you're even asking this...obviously i can't blame the 13 year old.
But what we're talking about in this thread is the burqua as a symbol of oppression of women in Islam, not spoiled westerners acting like Britney Spears. I'm just surprised at those of you that seem to think that these women WANT to wear these tings.
Since you know so much what they want to wear, why do they come over here and still wear the hijab? they no longer have to???
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gigabitch [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
It's not so easy to throw off something that's been ingrained by your culture for thousands of years. Besides, you have no idea what's going on at home for these women. They may be in the US, but they're not here alone.
Look, I'm the first to say that women should be making their own choices, but women making choices is not really a traditional part of any Abrahamic religion (Muslim, Christian, Judaism).
it may well be a symbol of oppression and some women may well not want to have to wear it, but what the hell is this non Muslim English fellow doing fighting the fight for oppressed Muslim women? It seems to be more than just fighting the ‘good’ fight for him. He practically insulted the whole religion. But what is the reason to go as far as banning it? Surely that is up to the Muslim people to decide? Just as much as any other religion. It’s up to the individuals involved, and he’s not involved. It’s not the *law* in England so wtf is his problem. I would understand if he was actually Muslim and I would understand even further if *he* was a Muslim woman…but he’s not. It’s more about being the hero and forcing them to abide what he decides. As the lefties say that is oppression in itself. They have the right to make that decision not some English bloke who obviously thinks it’s an insult to him, well I disagree with making it law to ban, I agree with educating and teaching them about the freedoms they have available to them but at the end of the day it’s absolutely up to them not the English government.
What do you think about his point that in an age of Code Red security alerts, it doesn't make sense to allow people to go around in disguise?
oh here we go...the fear mongering to get people's liberties taken away for *security*....has anyone actually used the burqa as a form of terrorism against the country?
it's an extreme excuse just like fearing mongering the american people into letting go of their freedoms for the sake of *security*...i say blah to that. the muslims are getting oppressed by the world in this terrorsim fever pitch fear mongering going on.
[url]http://sweetness-light.com/archive/would-be-london-subway-bombers-wore-a-burka[/url]
firstly were these guys actually sent to jail with proof of the conspiracy? i have a real problem with the media hyping up excuses to shoot and kill and oppress the muslims. there have been quite a few mistakes made by the coppers such as the brazilian guy who was shot dead by them on the tube and he had absolutely NO connections to any muslims or groups and he wasn't muslim but looked muslim. there is a serious amount of bias in the news against muslims atm. something to bear in mind when reading things like this. i'm not defending them because i have no knowledge of this incident involving the burqa's (which leads me to think it's not true-as i am exposed to UK media) however they weren't convicted....were they?:detectiveQuote:
Originally Posted by Gigabitch [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
if this is the case then it is another form of brainwashing the public into fearing and hating the muslims yet again.
also i have never heard of sweetness and light...who are they? EDIT just found out its american bullshit media lol, doesn't even count as news lol
Will BBC work for you?
[url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6634917.stm[/url]
yes the BBC works a *lot* better. I’m more inclined to believe them. however I’m still a skeptic overall especially with the media bias towards muslims but that’s neither here now there for this discussion about the burqa. The point is he used a burqa to hide himself after the bomb stunt which wasn’t an actual attack…again some might say not relevant. Yes ok.
The point is It’s possible that a terrorist group *could* use the burqa to hide just as much as hiding with a motorbike helmet on them. *Except* motorbike helmets don’t mean as much to the muslim culture. The media have portrayed the muslim community as wanting to attack and yet the main people attacking are the police and vigilantes against the muslim communities and this English fellow is all part of the campaign against muslim rights whether he realizes or not.
it's just another way of oppressing their freedoms and culture overall. i still believe it is up to the muslim folk to decide. i donlt think there is much to fear from the muslim community but there will be if their oppression keeps happening, someone, someday is gonna lose it. and it will have been the worlds governments fault for putting so much pressure and oppression on them. its the same as when the Jews and blacks were discriminated against. another Malcolm x will raise his head out of all this and there will be trouble. i don;t believe all this Osama crap, completely fabricated. the world needed an enemy to go to war with so that they could get in there and pillage.
anyway that's my view :)
really eco - I understand your point, but there have been multiple women wearing burqas in Israel that have blown themselves up. You need to find a better argument.
^^don't you think that's a little different considering first off they were brainwashed *women* and secondly it wasn't the UK with all it's freedoms in comparison? the muslims over there are completely bamboozeled, they have absolutely no rights
You think crossing the border into the UK magically removes cultural and religious bamboozlement? Eco, these people are NOT assimilating into your culture and they are NOT seeing things from the same perspective you do. I can't think of a better example of this than the issue at hand- the ****ing burqa.
Anyone who wears one is brainwashed. Look, if the men wore them too, it might be an arguable cultural prerogative but they don't. They enjoy personal freedom, like most people, except for, of course, the freedom to ask directions from a woman they don't know, or speak to her at all, basically to take part in the society they've chosen to insert themselves into with no intention whatsoever of assimilating.
How many people in the US wearing those have actually done any terror activities? I know here in Canada we haven't had any problems..."Anyone who wears one is brainwashed"..Funny how you'll use that as brainwashing yet when we talk about the western world and media doing the same you take it as "off topic" material..which really was a point i was trying to make...not that you go that..so many hypocrites, it's unreal.
I'm perfectly happy to talk about media fearmongering and brainwashing elsewhere.
Do you have anything to say about burqas and the fact that Pat Condell wants them outlawed in the UK?
There's nothing wrong with wearing burqas...The guy is pissed about something else...Maybe he isn't getting any who knows..
The video really isn't about burqas. He's pissed that people can't talk about certain cultures and religions without being labeled an -ist or a -phobe. He's pissed that his government bends over backwards to accommodate other people's culture at the expense of his own. And yeah, he's pissed that in some barbaric cultures women are treated as little more than cattle.
As for that nonsense about wives and penises, if I ever did marry I can assure you my wife would have heaps more class and intelligence than the sort of woman who'd strut about town with her tits and ass hanging out. However, she would never, ever be afraid to dress that way for fear of violence. It would always be her choice.
Asip, I agree that some women are okay with wearing the burqa, and they wear it happily, just like those polygamist women wear their prairie clothes. I don't really care if they choose to wear it, and I actually see some value in dressing very conservatively. It really heightens the thrill of even the tiniest bit of physical contact with the opposite sex. Scarcity increases value, or something like that.
I just don't like the idea of women being forced into one, especially for such reasons as men not being able to control themselves sexually.
Men aren't controlling themselves anywhere vashti...US, Britain, you name it...Anybody saw the news of the soccer coach in UK stab the teenage supermodel? I mean come on, you don't think that could have been prevented with her being more careful and not being so damn slutty? how does allowing women to dress any way they want protect them? Gribble, you want best for women..hell i do too..but i honestly don't think that a lot of women can protect themselves..and sometimes us men need to do it...In Arab world, men go to an extreme by beating up their wives and i think that's totally wrong..but as for wearing the hijab or whateve else to not reveal so much..i'm sorry but i don't think there's anything wrong with that.
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Originally Posted by vashti [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
Are you really blaming the victim? :surprised I'm sure you've read that rapes are not crimes of sexual passion, but rather acts of violence. Rapists don't do it because they are aroused by flesh - they are angry.Quote:
Originally Posted by Asip4u [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
vashti, what i am saying is that women don't always know what's best for them...they don't make wise choices..If this girl had someone by her side who could have guided her better, she wouldn't have been stuck with fools like that in the first place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vashti [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
GIRLS may not know what is best for them, but WOMEN? I know many women who are the "wiser" partner in their marital relationships. Men are surely not wiser simply because they own a penis...
I appreciate that men - especially traditional ones - want to adopt the protector role, but don't you think it infantilizes women, even just a little?
Obviously not all WOMEN...For example the fact that you are very cautious of meeting people online tells me you don't trust very easily..which is a very good thing IMO..because this is internet and a lot of guys are very good actors...The thing is most women are not like you..In fact, i've met many who are the total opposite.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vashti [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]
Pat Condell has been trying to make a name for himself with these internet rants for a while now. That's a good one, Grib posted.
Remember tho, this guy is a comedian. He's a professional pot-stirrer. Similar to that US comedian who died a while back (forgot his name). Anyway, both funny as hell, both tell it like it is.