Prenup - I prepare for marriage, he prepares for divorce

My french bofriend of 2 years had asked my hand for marriage. We both love each other, both in our 30's, single, stable and ready for having a family together.

Although we do not need to get married to be together, which we both like very much to happen for the rest of our lives, we choose to anyway because I primarily want to, and for him, he cannot have me legally stay here in France without this.

However, there's a hitch, he wants a prenup and I don't. Here's why we differ.

He is French and has considerably more assets than me. In France, more than half of the marriages end up in Divorce. In most divorce cases, it is usually the woman who initiates it. His mother left him and his father when he was 9 years old. More to that, his parents are now happily with other people, and yet not married still, even after retirement...

On my part, I come from Philippines, the only country left which doesn't have a divorce. In the absence of divorce, people who need to be separated either get annulments or just separate without the legalities, but there is no option for remarriage under this. However, only 1.0% of our population identified themselves as separated. My parents had celebrated 30 years of happy marriage, and I've witnessed the rocky slopes and the times when my mother wanted to live, but didn't. This worked out ultimately for all of family in the end.

Coming from such different backgrounds, we need to compromise. But I hesitate to enter discussions with french lawyers about which percentage of the assets he can retain in case we get divorced. First, i will not be represented here, coming from a country with no divorce laws.

But more importantly, my primary reason for not agreeing to all of this is becuase of it's potential to damage our marraige even before it began.I fear treating our marriage like a business deal, and instead of partners, we become adversaries. I am uncomfortable with the notion of entering into a marriage with the prospect of Divorce already looming largely in the horizon. This step is by itself already slowly chipping away our marriage before it is started, and i think that because we are preparing for it, even putting it in writing and signing for it, then a divorce is more likely to happen.

As a filipina, I put foremost priority in our future family and remaining intact, for better or for worse, and I have no motivation whatsoever to divorce from him so I can get the money, as most men would like to believe. It is an insult for me, and as much as we love each other, I am willing to turn down the marriage proposal because I feel that the marriage won't work. I've voiced this concern to him but he cannot also reconcile the fear of being left alone in the future, with me robbing him off his money and children.

I feel like I am preparing myself for marriage and he is preparing himself for a divorce.

We both love each other but have such differing views, how can we reconcile?

If you marry in France, you WILL be represented. You'll be married under French law and should you divorce, it would also be under French law.

Frankly, I think you're being far too emotional about something that is an intellectual decision. He's simply covering the bases should things go wrong... and statistically, they very well might.

Get your own attorney to read the prenup an suggest changes for you - a French lawyer. Sign nothing until you think it's fair.

Why does a prenup mean divorce is more likely? Sounds to me like he's being sensible especially given his own parents divorce and you' re living in 'happily ever after land'.

Well if there's a legal document binding you two then it is a sort of business deal.....right?

The reason per nups are a good idea is because divorce rulings are usually unfair to the person who comes into the relationship with the most assets.

Let's say he meets you and has a net worth of $1 million dollars..... If you divorce, do you feel you have the right to half of that? Well in the US, that's what happens.

Always get a pre nup when this kind of assets are involved....ALWAYS!! Just ask Paul Mcartney :).

Btw.....these run both ways. My wife owns another house so it's protected IN CASE something happens

He's being reasonable. You're not. He admittedly has more than you, and he wants to protect it. That makes complete sense.

You *are* entering a business deal. Once you involve the state in marriage, it's no longer just about romantic feelings; it's a legal contract as well.

Frankly, if I were him, I'd be nervous about you not wanting to sign a prenup.

I agree.....I would never continue a relationship with someone who refuse to sign one

Now....we wait for the ladies to chime in :)

If you're not a gold digger planning to take his money, then sign it. It's that simple.

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Originally Posted by surfhb2 [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

Let's say he meets you and has a net worth of $1 million dollars..... If you divorce, do you feel you have the right to half of that? Well in the US, that's what happens.

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No, it's actually NOT, at least not in California. A marriage is considered a business contract, and each "partner" is entitled to half of what is earned during the time of marriage, NOT that which was privately held prior to marriage, which remains separate property.

m3rry - I wouldn't be happy about signing a prenup if you plan to have children with this man, unless it says something along the lines of what happens in California, which I think is fair to all parties. You shouldn't sign something that might have negative long-term effects on your future kids.

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No, it's actually NOT, at least not in California. A marriage is considered a business contract, and each "partner" is entitled to half of what is earned during the time of marriage,

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That is how it is here as well. Unfortunately too many men think that what is accumulated during the marriage should be all theirs as well and up until the law was changed, it was all theirs and that's why it was changed. Because women were leaving marriages where they contributed through outside the home employment or inside the home taking care of business/family/the husband there and not getting any compensation for it.

If the relationship desolved, women were being put out with NOTHING and living in poverty.

Get your own lawyer Op (if you haven't already) before you sign anything. He/she won't let you sign away your actual rights.

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I fear treating our marriage like a business deal, and instead of partners, we become adversaries

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You are naive at best if you don't think that along with love and companionship that marriage isn't a financial business deal. Particularily in this day and age when women often make more then their partners or have equal assets going into the "partnership," That word means in all ways.

Exactly

I dont think you should take it so personal that he is betting on divorce or something. He just really wants to protect his assets for the future. I honestly think people that try to say that the person is wanting a prenup is being pessimistic about their future is hiding the real issue.. I think the real issue is because you just don't want to sign it and you're trying to use that as an excuse. Just be real about what you want. You have that right. If I married someone that is well off, there would have to be some sort of compromise because I don't see myself signing my rights off. Just like Michael Jordan and his ex. She got a lot of money. There was no pre nup but she had his kids, was with him for a long time....she deserved it. That's how I view it. I deserve it. I don't want everything but if hubby decides he don't want me and I've been nothing but good to him...then he need to pay me for my time. My point is be smart about it. Talk to a lawyer. Plan for your future.

Things look differnetly when you are the one with the biggest assets, like myself. I own my house, for him to take half would be devistating to me . I would have to sell and live in a dinky apartment....fu ck that.

I think smackie9 is dead on. It's easy for the person who has fewer assets and who makes less money to say, "Well, I gave a lot to the relationship, too, so I deserve at least half," even when that person didn't make nearly the same amount of money as his/her partner did and didn't have nearly as much to show for a lifetime of work.

It's very simple: A prenup protects everyone. OP, if he comes into the relationship with significantly more assets than you do, he gets to keep those assets if you divorce. If he makes, for example, three-quarters of the money in the relationship, then he deserves three-quarters of the money if you divorce.

Marriage *is* a legal contract. It should be treated as such. If you have any problem with signing a prenup that gives back to each individual party what he or she earned over the course of the relationship, my bet is you don't really want a mutual relationship; you want someone to completely take care of you financially.

And no, you don't get "paid" for washing dishes and doing laundry. Marriage is a legally binding contract. It is not your employer.

I can see both sides of this argument clearly.

Against pre-nups: I recall thinking that I'd refuse to sign a pre-nup and for exactly the same reasons as you. If he didn't trust me to only take what was mine, then I'd want nothing to do with him. And for the record, when I divorced, I actually took less than I was entitled to...so I was true to my word. My now husband didn't ask me to sign anything despite having more assets than me because he saw how I dealt with the fallout from my previous marriage and trusted me.

For pre-nups: 20 years on, I now have children and substantial assets. If (heaven forbid) I became widowed and had to start again, I would most certainly do a pre-nup. Not so much for myself, but to protect the children's lifestyle and the assets which will be their's one day. Even in the case of my death, the lion's share of my assets would go to my children and not a new husband. I'd want this all on paper and agreed to.

OP, dont sign a prenup without reading it or seeking legal counsel. I dont care what he tells you.

For me, I would like to have some sort of a prenup that protects both of us. My assets and his. It would be an agreement between the two of us that would specifically outline everything.

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Originally Posted by m3rry [Dear Guest/Member you have to reply to see the link.click here to register]

But more importantly, my primary reason for not agreeing to all of this is becuase of it's potential to damage our marraige even before it began.I fear treating our marriage like a business deal, and instead of partners, we become adversaries. I am uncomfortable with the notion of entering into a marriage with the prospect of Divorce already looming largely in the horizon. This step is by itself already slowly chipping away our marriage before it is started, and i think that because we are preparing for it, even putting it in writing and signing for it, then a divorce is more likely to happen.

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By this logic, getting auto insurance means you think you are a shitty driver who can't handle herself on the road and the insurance makes you more likely to get into an accident. Is there any evidence to back this up? What about self defense? Does learning how to defend yourself in the case of a physical altercation mean that you are inviting physical altercations and making others more likely to attack you?

Apply your logic to other contexts like this and see if it holds up. Honestly, I think you're just being emotional when you jump to this conclusion.