Feelings for someone with a boyfriend.

[melancholia]

Agreed in large part with melancholia. (I swear she's not paying me to say that, I just seem to agree with her a lot. ...By the way, melancholia, when do I get my five bucks? LOL!)

I got your $5 right here, it's $5 CAD, though so really, it's more like $3.85 lolol

Otherwise, maybe your soulmate is elsewhere.

OP, she is not your soulmate. If she were, then you wouldn't be stuck in this silly situation over and over and over again. If she were your soulmate, she would stop at nothing to help encourage you to be the best version of yourself that you can be. If she were really your soulmate, you wouldn't be second-guessing every move you make, every intention she might have. You would fit together perfectly, without any doubts, because a soulmate is someone who loves you unconditionally, who has your best interest at heart, even if it means they have to sacrifice their own needs if it means you can be happy. All this woman gives you is a headache, a heartache, and a boner. You can find that in basically anybody else, yet somehow you are stuck on this one particular mediocre example of a waste of time.

I do not see this situation ending well for you, and I say things that sound harsh because I'm not one to sugar coat anything. You need some tough love right now and you need to start seeing your own behavior and how it is affecting the current outcome. Why hasn't she just up and left her boyfriend yet, and why haven't you told her that you can't be with her unless she does?

[TheEvilJester]

I got your $5 right here, it's $5 CAD, though so really, it's more like $3.85 lolol

Oh, that's not cool. That's not what we agreed. Come on, I have a family to feed. ...I mean.... they're all just voices in my head.... but they are like family to me. LOL!

Anyway, I don't think the OP actually used the word soulmate. That was me. And, to clarify in case you misunderstood, I was not implying that this gal was/is his soulmate. In fact, quite the opposite, I was suggesting it is very possible his soulmate (if you believe in such a thing) is somebody else. Much for a lot of the reasons you cite yourself.

I won't say it is DEFINITE this girl isn't. Sometimes we all get stuck in a bad situation in life. Who knows what may happen if/when she actually takes some time to take stock in her life and decide what she really wants? I WILL say, though, that it is better for the OP to let her do that and set himself free from all this drama so he can have a chance to be happy.

IF it turns out she is his soulmate, then in time fate will find a way to bring them together. Trying to force that only brings them both heartache and risks ruining what could maybe be a good thing if it came at the right time. This is most definitely NOT the right time.

From all we've read, it does seem most likely they won't end up, most likely that it is best for him just to forget her completely. We certainly COULD BE wrong about that, but this story has been told so many times and almost always ends with the same heart break. So, really, it is best for him just to leave her behind for now and move on with the assumption that she will never be with him. Move on, heal, and then look for love elsewhere.

If fate should see fit to bring them together in the end, let fate do that. Just don't wait around and waste too much of your life putting it on hold hoping for something that may never happen. If it is meant to be, it will be. If it is not you will only prolong your pain by prolonging this drama.

[melancholia]

I know it was you who mentioned soulmates, but my statement is still directed toward the OP. She is not his soulmate. Unless his definition of a soulmate is a game playing, manipulative, "woe is me" perpetual victim. If she can't make up her mind about which guy to choose, then she shouldn't get either of them. Sure, it may be black and white to think that way, but honestly, she is getting everything she wants out of this situation while both men are sitting there, trying their best to make things work with her, and she's sitting on her high horse, laughing at them both while she continues this masquerade. If the roles were reversed and the OP was a woman and it was a guy she was talking about, I would be giving the exact same advice.

When you are with the right person, it's not this hard.

[RagnaRocke]

Thanks so much for everything guys - but I'm going to have to throw another spanner in the works here :/

She has informed me over texts that she was suppossed to be going on a 'final date' with her boyfriend where she would end things and it seems he went to a great deal of effort to heal things between them. He left his apartment door unlocked and layed out a trail of chocolates leading her to the bedroom, which he had decorated with prevoius valentine gifts they had gotten each other and left roses on the bed. He asked her to get dressed up so that she felt as beautiful as possible. (I said that was weird and that she didn't need to get dressed up to look beautiful, but she said she likes to get dressed up sometimes and he knows this).

So she got in the shower at his apartment and while she was in there, he went through her phone and found some messages from me. Apparantly he didn't know she had been seeing me, I just assumed since she was telling me when she was seeing him she was probably telling him too. He also accessed her facebook account and blocked and unfriended me. When she came out of the shower he went crazy and was shouting at her, he pushed her around until she fell to the floor and apparently bit her (WTF, right?). He threw her phone out of the window and demanded she move all her possessions by the end of the day. He said he was going to end it anyway, but wanted to end it nicely and she had ruined that chance for them.

So, like the fool I am, I drove back into town and took her back to mine :/ On the car ride, he constantly called and texted her, saying she was pure evil and didn't deserve happiness but she ignored him. He started threatening to smash up her belonings but I said he was probably bluffing and she continued to ignore him. She had bruises on her arms but was otherwise unharmed, she didn't seem distressed at all. She just told me the date didn't happen and she was officially single now. Nothing sexual happened all though we did kiss passionately again. We both had to go to work, and I dropped her at work on my way to my workplace.

In regards to the mutual friend and the meeting for drinks, she has told me that her (ex-)boyfriend has told everyone in our mutual friend groups that she cheated on him with me. She doesn't know the full story so I don't know how bad it looks. I don't know wether or not I should go now. I kinda want to face things head on, but if he's turned everyone agaisnt me, it might be a bad idea. I haven't talked to her about what I might do yet.

The real issue I'm worried about right now though, is that she texted me saying her ex had cut himself - he had done it when he was younger and had grown out of it - but he had started doing it again and she was asking me for advice on what to do. I told her not to let him guilt-trip her into anything and explained it wasn't just her fault, that I was partly to blame as well. I said we should convince him to see a GP and get help. But she said if he needed help, he wouldn't have told her and would have covered it up. She said the fact that he told her straight away meant that he was just doing it to screw with her or to get attention. She's seeing him tomorrow to finish collecting her things.

I understand that I am partly to blame for this and I feel like scum. I don't know what I should do anymore. I'd like to keep seeing her of course and I really would like to make things work between us in the long term, but has this crossed the line now that she has been hurt and he is harming himself?

[melancholia]

You know exactly what you should do, but you don't want to do it. You are getting so caught up in this drama, not just your own, but hers and her (now ex) boyfriend's. Thinking that he wouldn't find out she cheated on him is stupid. And it's even more stupid to think that she would have told him anything that went on between you and her. Why she went to such great lengths to tell you all about his romantic gestures and their final date, is lost on me. If her ex really did cut himself, that is his problem, not hers and definitely not yours. It doesn't make you the good guy in this story to try and help sort that out. It's up to him to figure it out, and if he wants help, he will seek help. Part of me wants to think she's made all of this up to get more sympathy and attention from you and none of it might even be true. Who knows though.

We keep giving you advice and you thank us for it, but you don't actually take it. Which is fine, because advice is given to offer an alternative perspective. You're not obligated to take it, or use it if you don't want to. However, if you do choose to ignore it, and you continue to perpetuate this mess you're in, you have nobody to blame but yourself. If you want to continue feeling like "scum" (your words, not mine), then you will keep doing what you're doing and you won't change a thing. If you want to rid yourself of this torture and move forward, you will consider taking some of the advice we've given you. This woman sounds beyond dramatic. It doesn't sound like it's worth the headache; and even if she does actually end things with this guy and chooses to be with you, I highly doubt it will be a healthy, positive, successful relationship for you two.

[TheEvilJester]

Like melancholia, I feel obligated at this point to point out that you know what to do by now. You know what is right to do by now. You've even acknowledged yourself that you need to keep your distance from her. You just are not willing, or perhaps feel you are not able, to do what needs to be done. Instead, you keep yourself stuck in this awful situation only making things worse for yourself while (albeit I get this isn't your intention) you are making things even harder both on her and on her ex as well.

The drama between her and her ex is NOT your problem and should NOT be any of your business. You can't help that she chooses to share it with you, but at this point you should act as a concerned friend would and nothing more. If her ex has become abusive to her, that is his problem, and it is her responsibility to remove herself from that situation for her own benefit. If her ex has begun to harm himself, that is HIS problem. If he sincerely is a danger to himself, she should try to convince him to get help, or if need be even just report him herself. If he's only doing it for attention then she needs to ignore his bull crap and do what is right for her.

Bottom line, though, you should have nothing to do with that. That is between him and her. As we've said over and over again here, you should not be involved in all this drama. If she was meant to be with you, it should be because it happened naturally, not because you played ANY active part in the two of them breaking up. Make no mistake about it, whether or not their break-up was inevitable anyway, and whether or not it was your intention, you are now a big part of why they've broken up. That's not good. Not for them, not for her as an individual, not for whatever chance your relationship may have had if you and her do get together. Believe me, I'm not implying if you two wind up together it definitely won't work out.

Maybe it will. Maybe surviving all of this together will actually make you two stronger. I'm just saying, that is unlikely. It is much more likely that all of this will undermine whatever relationship you may have been able to have if you two had let things run their course naturally. As melancholia pointed out, a relationship shouldn't be THIS hard, and especially not at the beginning of the relationship. Sure, all relationships can hit a rough patch now and then, but there shouldn't be this much drama at the very start of your relationship.

At this point, honestly, my personal advice would be to leave this situation completely. My personal belief would be that this gal is most likely not the woman for you. This all just screams way too much of way too many red flags to seem like this story ever has a happy ending. Honestly, I COULD be wrong. It's not like it is impossible for there to eventually be a happy ending. I'm just saying, it is pretty rare in a situation overrun with so much drama.

You'd likely be better off to just move on. In time you would get over her. In time you would meet somebody else. In time you would realize why you are much better off without her or her drama in your life. But, you have to do what is right for you. If you feel you need to continue to see her, then that has to be your decision. If you do that, then for your sake, I hope it works out for you well. Good luck to you either way.

[olie Murphy]

I think the only answer is time.

[melancholia]

It's clear that patience is a virtue our OP has not been blessed with.

[TheEvilJester]

LOL! Indeed. I can understand that, though, to some degree. Patience can be that much more difficult in matters of the heart. Yet, that is where patience often can be, as would seem to be the case here, so much more important. This is one of those situations where a little patience could actually allow them the chance to come together.... or failing that could at least allow them both the time to reflect and realize what they truly want out of life/a relationship and realize that they may not find that in each other. Sometimes people are just there at a time when you need them, but are not necessarily the right one to be there forever.

[melancholia]

Personally, I am most patient when it comes to finding someone I actually want to commit to. I don't want just anyone. I want to be with the right person. I need the relationship to feel natural, and beneficial to me in every way. I can wait as long as I have to, because when it's right, it's right. When it's wrong, it sucks the life out of me, and I would rather be alone than feel alone with another person to deal with. Other than that, I am not a patient person at all. If I were the OP, I would have bowed out of this mess immediately, but everyone is different, and everyone tolerates different levels of insanity.

The OP is not exercising any patience in this situation at all. Instead of using his brain, he's using the head of his d.ick, which is a huge part of this mess. The heart doesn't do anything but pump blood through your body. Your brain does all the work. Not enough people are willing to acknowledge reality. They want to stay stuck in their fantasy world because they THINK they are entitled, when really, we are not guaranteed anything in life. Too often, we keep ourselves stuck in one place because it's comfortable. Even if we tell people it's eating us up alive, we stay stuck there, hoping life will happen TO us, rather than acknowledging that life happens FOR us. If you want something to change, you have to change your behavior.

[TheEvilJester]

Here here! Thank you for that, melancholia. I will just add that I don't think when people say they feel something "in their heart" or that their heart tells them one thing and their brain another, or things like that, I don't think people mean that literally. At least I know I do not. The heart itself, as you put it, is just an organ that pumps blood throughout the body. It's just an expression. I suppose a much more apt description would be to say "I'm of two minds on the matter" or something like that. When people say their heart tells them one thing, and their mind another, it isn't meant literally. It's all in the mind.

[melancholia]

I understand it's a figure of speech. But when people let their emotions control their behavior, that's when it can become a problem. Make decisions based on logic and reality, not based on your obsession with someone, or by how easily you get a boner for them. Ya feel me?

[RagnaRocke]

There haven't been any major developments as of yet with the two of us, although I have chosen to go to the party. But I'd just like to mention that my feelings for her aren't entirely based on sex. I have a very strong emotional connection to her has well.

Everyone has different opinions on sex. I don't take it too seriously and while I might have done some wrong things at first - I never actually slept with her until we were both single adults. But okay, I'll admit it was the day that she became single... But we both consented and we were both mature adults about the situation. If she wants to share that with me and I feel the same and we are both single, I don't see any moral problems with this. Maybe it is a bit disrespectful to her ex to sleep with her the day she became single, but frankly - what she does after she becomes single is no longer her ex's business. If I felt she was pushing me away, or even that she wasn't that interested, I would leave her alone - but when I pull away she chases me.

I have been in many relationships in my life and my relentless pursuit of this woman isn't based on some adolesent desire for sex. I honestly believe in my heart that we will make each other happy in the long run and I think she believes it too. My pursuit is based on the fact that no one has ever made me as happy as her and if I can get things to work out eventually, I think the rest of our lives are going to be a lot happier, I just know there is going to be a lot of work involved if that is ever going to happen.

I do want to be with her but I need to ask for advice on how to deal with specific situations that have arisen. Some of which I did not plan or were completely beyond my control such has her ex posting my private life all over facebook or threatening to cut himself.

I later found out he was bluffing about that. She had texted her ex's Father telling him that she was worried her ex had started to cut himself again and she thought someone should know and she later found out he hadn't actually done anything.

The only real developments so far is that she still continues to text me although we haven't seen each other. Her ex is calling and texting her practically all day everyday except when she's at work or asleep. One minute he wants to be friends and the next she's the scum of the earth. She asked him what she can do to give him closure and make it easier for him to get over her - and he said she had to write him a poem describing how she really felt about him and all the reasons she loved him - which she felt weird about and refused to do. So he went back to calling her names and generally being mean to her. I explained that it sounds like he wants to be friends and he's as sweet as cake when he gets what he wants, but as soon as she says no to him, or things don't go the way he wants, he turns into this horrible person. I said to throw him a bone though as he is obviously very upset but still said it was unfair that he is using her as his emotional punchning bag.

She asked me if there is anything she can do in terms of accusing him of harrassment because that's how she feels and I said not to worry, just to ignore him if he's being mean and he will eventually tire himself out.

I might see her at the party, but we're turning up seperately and I intend to act like nothing has happened unless someone directly brings it up, in which case I will take them to one side and discuss it privately. It is a good friend's leaving party and ultimately this isn't about me or her, I just would like to be there to see him off. What do you guys think?

[TheEvilJester]

Believe me, far be it for me (quite a hopeless romantic myself) to disabuse you of the notion of falling in love with "the one," so don't misunderstand that I am trying to do that here.....

However, I don't personally think the problem is you are acting purely out of wanting sex. If that was all you wanted, I have to think you'd have long ditched this gal for somebody else because it sure as heck wouldn't be worth all this drama just to "wham bam, thank you ma'am." So, the very fact that you are putting yourself through all this says to me that you want this girl as more than just a sex object, that you actually feel she could be "the one."

Me personally, all I've been trying to point out is that if somebody is "the one" then love will find a way. You don't need to force things. That is why, right from your first post, my advice was to give her space and let her work through her current drama and hopefully you two would come together in the end. You should never have been dragged into all this. In large part, you allowed yourself to become part of the drama. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you did that on purpose. I understand how you feel. But, we told you and it seemed you even knew yourself that it was best to just keep your distance from her and allow her time to work on her own life. In the end, that wasn't what happened. To be completely frank, that wasn't entirely your fault. As you point out, any time you DID try to back off and give her time and distance she would just pull you back in.

So, in no way am I trying to say you are solely to blame for allowing yourself to be dragged into all of this drama. When you like somebody, it can be hard enough trying to keep yourself away from them. When that someone is going out of there way to pull closer to you, it is extremely hard to resist that and do what is probably right for both you and them.

Again, if she is "the one" then you two will wind up together anyway. There is no reason to try to force it at a time when she has too much going on. All the same, though I don't mean to sound unromantic, there isn't just one "the one" for each of us out there. I know that sounds a little crazy to say that more than one person could be "the one," but there is not just one person in all of the universe who was custom made for us. There could be many people who could be your ideal match and maybe you've just not met them. Maybe this girl is one of them, maybe not.

But, bottom line, if things between you and her do not work out, that doesn't mean she was the one and you lost your chance. It means somebody else is out there waiting to become your "one."

As far as the party, your friends, her ex, her ex's friends, etc. I would say you stay out of all of that as much as you can. If anybody brings it up to you, keep it as short and simple as possible and move on. If nobody brings it up, don't bring it up yourself. Your goal should be to lead by example and hope that all the drama will die off soon enough. Don't feed into the drama and don't allow yourself to be dragged into it.

Again, for your sake I really do hope she is being honest with you. I hope she breaks things off with her boyfriend once and for all and sticks to it. And I hope, in time, she is able to move on and heal and seriously pursue a meaningful relationship with you. As I've said before, my personal advice to you would have been to leave her alone to deal with things and possibly consider asking her out down the road when you feel the time is right. I get, though, that this patient approach does not necessarily work for you. If it did, you wouldn't be so adamant to see her and keep in touch with her.

So, if nothing else, at least please exercise caution. In other words, she is going through a lot right now, so the drama surrounding her life is understandable, as is her reluctance to officially be with you. However, do not wait around forever and allow her to just string you along in all this drama and in all the uncertainty. In time, she needs to move on from her past relationship and allow herself to be with somebody new. If she does not do that, do not allow yourself to be stuck in limbo waiting for her forever only to be constantly dragged around. If you want to wait all this out because you think you two could be happy together, that is your decision. Just don't make the mistake of thinking that for too long if things never change.

Good luck.

[melancholia]

I had the exact same thing happen with my ex that is happening to this woman now. If she wants the bombardment of texts and harassment to stop, she needs to block him from contacting her in any way, shape or form. She needs to block his phone number and block him from every form of social media. If he has a means to talk to her, he will. He is obviously hurt by her actions, which is totally understandable given the fact that she cheated on him. What do you expect from someone who feels betrayed like that? But even so, it doesn't mean she deserves to be harassed for it. Again, if she wants the texts to stop, she has to cut off all contact with him. It may not be easy, but it's her only option really. If he shows up at her house unannounced, or his actions escalate, then she can call the police and possibly file a restraining order against him - if she fears so much for her safety that it's necessary.

If you two are dedicated to making this relationship work, then all the power to you. But it just doesn't sound like it will. Relationships that start out this way rarely ever end happily. She hasn't had any time to deal with any of this. I understand that this isn't just about sex for you, but then why did you hook up with her so many times while she was with her ex? You said you didn't actually sleep together until she broke up with him, but there were many times when you both crossed the line while she was with him, and that is disrespectful to her ex, no matter which way you choose to look at it.

I think you're scared of losing this woman because so much has happened, and you've put so much energy into her, and into this mess, that you think you are giving up if you walk away, and what would all of that effort be for if you do? I'm starting to think that you like drama. Maybe you feed off of it and even though you say it's bothering you and tearing you up inside, you certainly haven't made an ounce of effort to stop it. You continue to allow yourself to be caught up in this mess - HER mess - and you make every excuse you can think of to keep this thing going. You must love it, or you wouldn't even think about going to this party, because if the chances are high that someone will call you out on this scandal, and you are willing to confront it head to head at this party. It sounds to me that you obviously crave this kind of attention. People don't do things that don't benefit them in some way. You are keeping yourself stuck in this place because you believe you're getting something out of it. Hopefully you can get what you want. A happy, healthy, successful and long-term relationship with this woman... I highly, highly doubt that will happen. But it's your life, only you can live it and if you want to play games with it, then so be it.

Let us know how the party goes. I'm dying to hear about it.