my ex really does love me if she can forgive what i did...

[S0NofHAM]

It's crazy...we broke up a month ago, and I've been crying almost everyday, and I'd finally all but gotten over her.

I texted her today, saying goodbye, I'm finally giving up on her because it's what she wanted, and she never loved me or cared for me...

She usually ignores my texts. I was finally saying goodbye for good. Then, she replies and argues that she did love me, and she always did. Also, she said she always cared for me. This is in contrast to what she said a couple weeks ago: "I don't love you anymore. I'm not sure if I ever loved you... I take that back. I did love you once, but not anymore."

So I go to her house today, and we talk, and she says that she lied when she said "I don't love you anymore. I'm not sure if I ever did..."

She let me hug her, but not kiss her. We talked for about a half hour, and she says not to get my hopes up, but she'll see me again on Wednesday.

It's crazy how I'm punishing myself. I had just let her go, and now I'm fighting for her again. The difference is my heart is already healed, so if she doesn't take me back this time, I don't think I'll cry. I haven't actually cried since Friday. I made good progress over the weekend. I almost cried tonight because she texted me goodnight.

Normally, I would leave that woman and never give her the time of day. However, I really love her, and I was gonna walk away because she said she never loved me. Once she admitted that was a lie, now I'm falling back in... love is really complicated.

On the bright side, I'm much less likely to have a problem with alcohol or marijuana if I get back with her. I stay sober whenever I'm with her.

This is probably one big, incoherent string of words, so I apologize if it doesn't make sense and has no point. I'm ranting. I've cried about 100x in the last month for her, and now I'm slowly winning back. If you had any idea of the things I've done wrong... oh my god. It made me want to kill myself. I might as well tell you:

-I drank and smoked pot too much (the last few months, I tend to drink every night, get drunk at least 4 times per week, and smoke off and on. A month and a half ago I was even drinking in the morning, but I stopped doing that, and I've been getting help from a psychologist).
-I broke up with her drunk over text four times in our 8 month relationship (she broke up with me sober, twice).
-I was verbally abusive on a few occasions when i was drunk
-I once told her I thought she was too fat
-I called her plastic a couple times (regarding her makeup)
-I told her i didn't like the fact her parents didn't speak english (she's mexican)
-I didn't always appreciate the little things she did for me
-I got in a fight with her two days after she threw me a surprise bday party for my 'dirty thirty'
-I touched two strippers' butts in front of her.
-After we broke up a month ago, I went on dating websites a day later
-I admitted to her that i went on dating websites, and she said she hated me and never wanted to see me again, and she deleted all our pics
-I had sex with a random Tinder girl 12 days after we broke up, and an hour after I had sex, I realized it was my 8 month anniversary (6 months official) with my girl (Sonia). So I was still in love with Sonia, and was trying to push her out of my mind, and inadvertently had sex with someone else on our anniversary.
-I had sex with that Tinder girl again 2 days later
-I admitted having sex and on our anniversary to Sonia, because I'm honest and Sonia was still texting me and I couldn't bear to hold a secret (I literally *CANNOT* keep secrets).
-Sonia wouldn't talk to me for over a week.

Now, Sonia let me hug her, kiss her forehead today, wrap my arm around her, and talk to her for over 30 minutes. No kiss of course, and no promise of getting back.

My sins are rather unforgivable, and they almost made me kill myself (good thing I'm still here). Sonia's sins were not as bad.

After listing out all those things I did wrong, for her to even talk to me and let me touch her, that means that Sonia must really love me. I've been heartbroken for a while because I thought she didn't love me, and after the breakup, she in fact said that she didn't love me. It turns out that she was lying, and she does love me afterall....

It's pretty ****ed up, and I've damaged and scarred the relationship many times. The major causes were my excessive drinking and possibly leftover resentment from my last 3yr9mo ex that ended about 45 days before I met Sonia, so Sonia was a rebound whom I fell deeply in love with.

I am of course neglecting all of the beauty and good times in our relationship, and there was a lot of them. Enough, I hope, to keep this relationship alive, because despite how it may seem, I really do love her.

I think I'm doing good just by not killing myself. I don't know if Sonia will take me back (and I know I definitely don't deserve her, even given the things she's done to me), but at least I'm convinced that she loves me now (I thought she didn't love me because she was never there for me when I was depressed, she didn't care about my severely sprained ankle, she refused to move in with me or sleep in my bed our entire relationship, and other sins which are basically nothing compared to what i did).

So if she takes me back, then she must love me deeply.

It's a pretty ****ed up story and I expect to be judged. I have judged myself plenty, and I know the mistakes that I've made, and I've swallowed my pride and I've admitted all of my mistakes and secrets to Sonia, even though she's lied to me a few times. For all my faults, I've basically never lied to her.

It really is a victory for me that I didn't kill myself. I was suicidal a couple weeks ago, but that passed. Trying to focus on my work and stop drinking and smoking, and that helps my emotions.

I don't even know if I should just hold the backspace key or click "submit new thread..."

[TheEvilJester]

That is definitely a lot more detail than you provided to us before. From all that, I can certainly at least understand her point of view in the breakup. Obviously there is quite a bit you did that led her to have had enough. Still, rarely is a break-up fully one person's fault. I am sure she is no perfect angel, and it is important you remember that. However, it is definitely a very good thing to realize the mistakes you have made and to strive to learn and grow from them.

With a lot of what you seem to be going through, I think I would honestly personally suggest dealing with these issues before you enter into any relationship. Whether you wind up back with her or wind up breaking up for good and you eventually wind up with somebody else. Somebody does not magically change, does not suddenly get over their issues within a few short weeks/months. That is quite a bit you are dealing with. It is going to take some time and a lot of hard work on your part.

I think it is awesome, though, that you can acknowledge the mistakes you have made. That is a great first step. You'd be surprised how many people cannot do that. How many people seem to float around in life like they are perfect and can do no wrong and that everything bad in their world is everybody else's fault. The fact that you can admit to making mistakes proves that you are adult and mature enough to realize you've done wrong. So, don't lose the benefit of that. Learn from your mistakes, grow, and become a better person for it.

If you and your ex are meant to be, then you will be meant to be tomorrow, you will be meant to be next month, you will be meant to be years from now. You've already risked losing this relationship once. Don't rush back in when you've not dealt with all of the things that caused you two to break up in the first place. If you two are going to have any chance, it would have to be once you have at least gotten a good start in dealing with all of this.

I'm not saying you two can't be in touch at all. If she is willing, you two can certainly remain very close. It just probably wouldn't be a good idea to jump right back into the relationship yet. You have to do what feels right for you, though. Good luck to you in everything. I sincerely hope you are able to come out of all of this stronger and better than ever. And I hope you then find the woman with whom you are meant to spend your life.... whether that winds up being her or not.

[S0NofHAM]

the way I spelled it out, and focused on all the things I did wrong, but not so much what she did wrong, I think that anyone would be able to see her point of view in the breakup.

It's just really hard, what I'm going through, and I know I did this to myself (she neglected me, and I lashed out).

It's just hard not knowing if I should let her go or not. I try to let her go, and she pulls me back in. I can't live in limbo forever. I need to either be with her, or let her go completely, and I can't just be friends with her forever, or even a month or two, and sit back and watch as she starts dating someone else. I need closure, and I basically had it, and then she told me she always loved me. Damn, love really, really sucks.

[TheEvilJester]

Then maybe your answer right now is you just need to let her go. Again, that is just my personal opinion, so you have to do what feels right for you. However, I personally do think you have a lot with which you need to deal, and you can't really do that at the same time as being in a relationship. I mean, I guess you CAN, but it is a lot harder. Plus, even if you can, you really shouldn't. You should enter into a relationship in the best possible place emotionally, spiritually, mentally, etc. Entering into a relationship (or in this case possible rekindling one) while dealing with a whole bunch of personal issues can put it at a much greater risk of not working out. At times when you are just dealing with so much of your own stuff it can be hard for that not to negatively affect a relationship.

So, my personal opinion would be to let her go for now..... but that doesn't mean you can't keep it in the back of your mind that maybe after you deal with stuff you will reach back out to her down the road and see how things go. In other words, I'd say let go now and deal with all your stuff. When you get to a point in your life where you feel you are a little more in control and you feel ready for a relationship, then take that time to think about her again. Take that time to think about whether you might actually like to give your relationship another chance. If, at that point, you find you would like that chance, get back in touch with her then and see if she is still single and may be interested.

True, within that time she may find somebody else, or within that time she may decide she's not interested in rekindling your relationship. The thing is, if that is what happens, then that just means it wasn't meant to be anyway. A good relationship wouldn't be one you have to force yourself into at a time that really isn't right for you or you'd otherwise lose it. If you and her are meant to be, then you'd still be meant to be at a time when you are better ready to be in any relationship.

Again, though, I say all this as my own personal opinion on the matter. You may not think that is the right move for you. You will have to do what feels right to you. However, I can just offer what I would do if I were in your situation. Me personally, if I were dealing with a lot of issues like that, I'd want to deal with them and get myself back to a point of being able to be happy even just by myself before I even worried about getting into a relationship. Even if for no other reason other than that I could risk hindering what otherwise could have been a good relationship because I was just not in a good enough place to have a relationship yet.

[S0NofHAM]

I don't believe in fate, and I don't believe that people are "meant to be."

I believe that proximity*time = Love.

I also believe my ex likes to see me suffer. She even said so on Monday when I visited her. I cry and cry and cry, and beg for her back, and she says no, no, no, and then when I let her go, she says wait, let's talk. She's playing games with me, and it's making it harder to let her go. I told her that I cannot go another month like this, crying everyday, and that we either have to get back together or stop talking altogether, and then she says that she wants me to be a friend and give her charm and try to win her back. Apparently there is a cycle: she wants to see me suffer, go back to square 1, then date her again and try to charm her, like some video game where you get game over and go back to the first level.

I think if she really loved me like I love her, then she would have cried this last month, and she wouldn't be playing games, and she wouldn't feel the need to demote me to friend status as a condition for getting back together.

I mean she's really driving me crazy. I profess my love to her over and over, and she says "No, I'll never forgive you, I'm ready to move on, and you have to stop calling me and my mom and stop texting my brother and stop coming to my house," and then I finally say "Okay, I'm ready to let you go now. I'll always love you, goodbye," and then she responds, "call me back, let's talk."

I mean, I still love her and miss her, but I can't keep going through heartache. It has to end. It's not good for my health to cry everyday. I need to heal. I think she loves me, but she has always neglected me our entire relationship in many, many ways, and that neglect is what led to my over-drinking and depression, and then she turns around and says, "oh look, you're an unstable alcoholic."

No one is right and no one is wrong when it comes to love.
There is no advice really that anyone can give you. Does he love me? Does she love me? Does he really care about me? Is she lying when she says this?

In the end, it's your life and you basically have to just do whatever you want, and whatever your heart leads you to do. If you love someone, then fight for them. If you stopped loving them, then don't fight. If you still love someone, but you're convinced that they don't truly love you back, then let them go. If you still love someone, but you're not sure if they truly love you back, then do whatever you want: fight for them, don't fight, let them come to you, whatever you choose is reasonable, because love is irrational, and it cannot be measured or quantified logically with any metric.

- - - Updated - - -

I told her:

Call you back? Why?

I'll call or text you the next time I cry, and I'll leave a message and tell you that i miss you. You can do the same, but if you haven't cried once since we broke up, then you have no business at all calling me.

Please stop making this harder on me.

[S0NofHAM]

I tend to agree with you deadpool.

I tried to move on before I was ready, and it made me hurt more. So I need to be comfortable being single and completely independent of any emotional attachment. Also, I need to get my drinking under check. The right woman is out there for me, and if it were my ex, then she would have cried at least once in the last month since we broke up. It's clearly not her. I won't rush into a relationship, and I won't settle. I will continue to drink, but will try to do so moderately and responsibly, and I will never let it affect my next relationship.

[TheEvilJester]

Ooo! I like that. Can Deadpool just be my new nickname? Like, in real life too? LOL!

Anyway, don't get me wrong, I don't really believe in "fate" or the idea of two people being "meant to be" either. I really just use those particular words/phrases for lack of a better idea how to explain it. More so, what I mean, though, is that somebody can be right for you or somebody can be wrong for you. In my eyes, if somebody is probably not the right match for you, then they were not "meant to be." Don't get me wrong, I DO NOT believe the universe will just magically put two people together and they will fall in love. "There is no fate but what we make for ourselves."

You have to put effort into love.... it just shouldn't feel like all effort and no reward. Now, from what you have shared with us, there was quite a bit you did that may have contributed to leading up to your break-up. ....HOWEVER.... from what you've shared, it also sounds like your ex was and is kind of cold and distant. Two wrongs don't make a right, as the saying goes. Just because maybe you had some issues with which you needed to deal does not make it okay for her to neglect you. If they were enough of a problem for her, then she should have ended things, not just grown cold and distant to the point where you felt neglected.

Furthermore, I agree with you that it sounds like she is playing games now. To me, anybody who would play games with somebody's heart like that is not somebody worth having in your life. So, you are begging her back one moment and all she can do is say hurtful things like claiming she never loved you. Then, all of a sudden you move on and now she suddenly doesn't want to lose you?

A) If she were all that good of a person, she would have just moved on. She wouldn't have felt the need to be so blatantly cruel and say such heartless things like to claim she never loved you.
B) If she wants nothing to do with you while you are falling all over her for another chance.... but then the second you move on she is trying to pull you back in then that personally makes me think of her as one of those people who just likes the attention. I'd wonder if she just enjoys the drama and enjoys making herself feel better by making you feel worse.

Hell, I could even be overreacting, but that is how that reads to me. So, honestly, again my personal opinion is that you would be best just to move on. And, really, no need for hard feelings, at least from you. You two just didn't work out, and you need some time to re-learn to be happy with you before you can then also be happy WITH somebody. And again, if the time comes when you are ready for dating, you could maybe consider reaching back out to her then if you want. I think I'd personally still not if I were you, but that is up to you.

Again, that is all my personal thoughts and advice, though. Like you said, you do have to do what feels best for you. So, I hope you figure that out and I hope it works out for the best. Most importantly, though, I sincerely wish you the best in your own personal journey to happiness. Believe me, I know how much it sucks when you can't seem to see through the dark clouds. I am living proof, though, that you CAN make it through. Even if not everything goes how you might like, you can still find your way to your own happiness. It isn't easy. I wish it could say it was. For me, it is pretty much a daily struggle. But, it is worth the fight.

Good luck.

[S0NofHAM]

Thank you Deadpool, that was probably the most helpful comment I've read regarding my love life so far on this forum.

Yes, you're name can be Deadpool, on this forum and in real life (I'm kind of jelly now... I want that name! haha).

I agree with basically everything you said. Sure, you don't know my situation that well, only as I've explained it, but you seem to have a very reasonable, objective outlook to it. I completely agree that I do not deserve to be with a woman who is willing to play games with my heart, even if I've hurt her in the past. When I hurt her, it's not like I had a pow-wow with my inner child and said, "Hey Kevin, let's hurt her *a lot.* Let's make her cry! It'll be fun!" Hell no. Every time I hurt her, I never meant to, and I ended up hurting myself, too, *a lot.* Hurting her, hurt me. For her to enjoy hurting me and to play games with me while I'm depressed, having dark days, crying nonstop for a month and considering suicide is completely unacceptable and despicable. I would never have treated her the way she treated me. And yes, she has been very neglectful of me, which has led to my depression and drinking.

What is life? Time. What is love? Life. Therefore Life=Love=Time. Therefore if you really love someone in your life, then you will give him/her your time. How can you say that you really love someone, like really, really, really love your romantic partner, but you wont give him/her any of your time? That's total bull shit. If you love someone, you give them your time. End of story. I was always giving her my time, and I was always asking for her time, and she was always refusing to give me her time, and a lot of the time when we were together, she felt distant.

Enough said, or what?

----

Thanks again Deadpool for your kind words. Even after I've admitted all of my sins, you were still kind enough to support me. I really appreciate it. You're a swell guy. And yeah, I can get through it, and I'm almost through the dark clouds, but damn-----I've had dark clouds for a month, and it really sucks. This is about the fourth time (or third time, depending on how I judge my past) that I've had dark clouds after losing a love. Every time it's been different, but every time it's been painful. At the very least, I can take away a few things from this:

-life will go on, and there are plenty of things to live for, even if I've lost a love
-I am lovable, even if she didn't love me
-if I'm able to cry so much for a love I've lost, then that means that I have a lot of love in my heart, and a lot of love to give a future partner who is deserved of it.

[TheEvilJester]

Of course I still wanted to support you. First off, you find me somebody who can say they've never done something wrong/bad in their life and I'll show you a liar. HINT! HINT! They'll be the same person. We've ALL at some point in our lives done things we've later regretted. Done bad things we later realized were wrong. How would I have any right to condemn you for your misdoings when I am no perfect being myself?

More importantly, though, the fact that you were able to own your mistakes, in my book, makes you that much more worthy of praise and support. You would not believe (or Hell, maybe you would) how many people can go through their life thinking they can never possibly do any wrong. Somehow, their problems are always everybody else's fault. Funny how, with those people, the exact opposite always seems to be the case. All their problems are almost 100% THEIR fault..... yet they'll will bend over backwards to blame anybody and everybody else.

A lot of what you shared that you did to contribute to the breakup, I can certainly understand why it would drive your ex to the point where she'd have had enough.... as I'm sure you too can understand. But... I think you exactly hit the nail on the head. You did not do any of that to intentionally hurt her. You did not do any of that maliciously wanting to play games and mess with her heart.

On the other hand, by saying intentionally hurtful things to you (even when they aren't true), she IS blatantly trying to hurt you. By wanting nothing to do with you..... until you decide to move on when suddenly she needs you back in her life.... she's blatantly hurting you. That is not okay no matter how much she may feel she was wronged in the past. You may have made mistakes, but I am sure you were not the only one.

I also agree with you. If you were so deeply hurt by the loss of this relationship, I think that does show your capacity for love. As much as it sucks going through that, it is actually somewhat of a good thing, because it shows you still have it in your heart to share that love with somebody. The fact that she could be so cold leads me to wonder whether she ever cared at all, or could care about anybody.

To be honest with you, though, if I had to guess I would say she probably HAS cried.... she just probably doesn't want to admit that to you. Either way, though, it is a moot point. I think right now you need to care more about you and take some time to heal. Only after that should you get back into the dating world. Only then should you ponder your relationship with her and decide if maybe it is worth revisiting once you feel in a better place.

I sincerely wish you the best and hope you some day find the true love you deserve, whether that winds up being her or being somebody else. Good luck.