Asking a shy girl out

[bnme90]

Thanks [MENTION=71386]TheEvilJester[/MENTION] for your encouragement. And I don't mind at all sharing yesterday's interaction. Basically, I see like 2-3 other guys talking to her after class, but noticed that she still went alone with her friend to lunch. I approached her, made some casual talk, and decided to take her up on that restaurant she told me about. Conversation as follows:

Me: "Where is that vegan burrito place you told me about?"
Her: "You know the ATMs on campus? It's right across from it!"
Me: "I actually don't..."
Her: (Takes a minute to continue explaining it, and then says something about eating there tomorrow, which was today.)
Her: "It's just that I'm not sure if you'd know how to eat the burrito" lol
Me: "What do you mean" lol
Her: "There's so many layers that you have to peel!" (Then starts demonstrating lol)
Her: "Since you live at [place], there aren't a lot of vegan restaurants there huh"
Me: "No, there's quite a few actually!" (I start naming places)
Her: "Oh, that's right, I've been to [restaurant]"
Me: "Dude! I go there all the time!"
Me: "Are you vegan as well??"
Her: "No, but my mom is, so I go vegan very often"

Both laughs, then continue walking. Awkward silence ensues.

Me: "So where are you guys (her and her friend) going?"
Her: "We don't know yet haha"
Me: "I heard about this new vegan place that just opened up on campus"
Her: "Oh, I know where that is"
Me: "Do you wanna try it?"
Her: (Looks to her friend) "Do you want to?"
HER FRIEND: "No..... cause I'm not really that hungry to be honest..."
Me: "I haven't tried it, plus I don't have a lot of options" (vegan)

We approach the restaurant that I wanted, and I kinda felt like I got rejected, so I said...

Me: "That's fine! Let's go tomorrow to that burrito place!"
Her: "That place is (tasty...or something)"

Waves goodbye.

So yeah, that was the conversation yesterday.

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[MENTION=87416]PRW[/MENTION] You've been spot-on with your analysis. It's taking me double the amount of time to realize these things lol, stuff like how she's not that shy and more bold than me, and how she's playing "duck and cover". Whatever shy/closed-off vibe she's trying to give off, she's doing a helluva job at it. She wears the exact same outfit everyday, has like only 40 friends on Facebook, and not a lot of people really know her in class since she's always the first one out. That's what led me to this assumption in the first place.

If I had some way to contact her, this would've been much easier lol. It's been so freaking difficult to catch her by herself, let alone asking for some way to communicate with her. I guess the only reason I decided to pursue this is because she always smiles and waves at me and not to any other guys in class. Otherwise, I would've not pursued such a tough and odd personality.

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After reading your guys' feedback, I took some time today to sort this out. And came to this conclusion:

(Let's just call her "Lucia" since that seems to be the agreed-upon name here haha.) Basically, I caught Lucia off-guard yesterday, and since she didn't know how to respond, she asked her friend. Like [MENTION=87416]PRW[/MENTION] said, this was just a move to reject me, because if she wanted to, she could've EASILY agreed to it without asking her friend. And the fact that the friend said "no" meant that they were on the same page. That explains why I immediately had doubts about actually having the chance of eating with her today, even though I still kept a sliver of hope on the inside.

So today, I acted like this whole thing didn't happen and awkwardly sat through a 2-hr exam. I finished a little later than her, and purposely stalled like 5 minutes in order to prevent running into her outside in the hallway. However, as I left class, I still see her waiting by the elevator with her friend and 2 other girls. (They looked like they were waiting for the elevator and not for me, though I could be wrong.) But I was already convinced I got rejected, so I didn't even bother talking to her because I knew I would've looked too desperate. Plus, I was feeling too butthurt, I didn't wanna embarass myself. Luckily, my friend happened to sit in front of the elevator by herself, so I just went and talked to her instead. This all happened within seconds, and out of the corner of my eye, I could see Lucia hurrying into the elevator that had just arrived. I'd be lying if I said I knew what the hell was going on....

So, my question is, did I do the right thing? What happens now? Been overthinking and doubting myself now that it's over.

[frayadventure]

bnme90 this is an interesting adventure you have. i've been wanting to post in it. i think that you shouldn't quite give up on her right now. i think she is one of the slow moving types. you know how you see guys who go up to her, well, she probably doesn't like men who are this 'overbearing'. i think you should keep it going but at a slower pace, and you should continue to occasionally talk to her when the opportunity arises. do you have future classes with her, like next semester? same major? if you do then look forward to that. this is if you're really interested in her, if you're not then it's not a big deal to think about other things.
also, don't wait too long to talk with lucia again, but not immediately either. give it a few days maybe.
the situation in the elevator, or going to it, did she look at you? she ran into the elevator quickly? so what do you think this means? what was your first intuition about it?

[bnme90]

[MENTION=87575]frayadventure[/MENTION] thank you for deciding to post, I appreciate it. You're the first person to come from the standpoint that I shouldn't give up just yet, so I'm very interested in hearing your feedback. You also brought up a very good point that she's a slow-moving type. Never crossed my mind that I was going too fast again.

Most (if not everyone) around me have always said to me one of the biggest reasons I get rejected is because I go too fast, and that most girls need time to warm up to me. My style has always been, ask a girl out once -- they reject -- I move on. But I'm 100% open to slowing the pace down, just that I've never found any success since I've yet to try it.

To answer your question, we're the same major and we have 3 classes together, so I see her 3 times a week. And the elevator situation -- because I read all of the responses here and had just came to the conclusion that I had gotten rejected the day before, my viewpoint may have been a little distorted at the time, which is why I started having doubts immediately after.

Basically, I figured I let more than enough time pass by (5-6 min) that I wouldn't run into her in the hallway, so I wasn't expecting to see her at all. Therefore, I was shocked to see her still there with her friends by the elevator, to the point that I had to slip into the corner and gather myself before actually heading over. My first thought was, "is there a chance she's actually waiting for me?" I was too nervous (beyond words) that I couldn't make eye contact with her. My plan was to just head over and talk to my friend who was sitting in front of the elevator by herself. By doing so, I'm entering that area without looking like a desperate puppy dog lol, but also giving Lucia the chance to show if she's waiting for me. (If she were by herself, I guarantee I would've RAN over there without question lol.)

Once the elevator door opened, they walked in, and I saw Lucia hurrying in out of the corner of my eye without even looking in her direction, while talking to my friend who happened to be RIGHT in front of her. Not gonna lie, it hurt a lot... because in that moment, I felt like whatever just transpired was not good. So, I can't tell you what that means, because I'm just as confused what happened. I mean, the chances were slim that she was actually waiting for me, because she never actually promised me right? IDK, hoping to hear your thoughts.

And I wanted to ask you, is there something that makes you think I still have a chance here? I'm curious to know. And what should I do moving forward?

[PRW]

(They looked like they were waiting for the elevator and not for me, though I could be wrong.) But I was already convinced I got rejected, so I didn't even bother talking to her because I knew I would've looked too desperate. Plus, I was feeling too butthurt, I didn't wanna embarass myself.

Good that you recognize your feelings and kept them in check.

Luckily, my friend happened to sit in front of the elevator by herself, so I just went and talked to her instead.

That is good. It showed the other that she wasn't your total focus (even though she was). Talking with another girl where she can see it happen will do a few potential things. It can validate to her that other girls think you are ok. If she has any interest at all it may nudge her to take a little initiative toward you. If she has no interest in you then she may think, "Good, maybe he will chase her instead of bothering me" and then she may relax a little more around you if she doesn't feel like as much of a target.

This all happened within seconds, and out of the corner of my eye, I could see Lucia hurrying into the elevator that had just arrived.
So, my question is, did I do the right thing? What happens now? Been overthinking and doubting myself now that it's over.

She got in the Elevator without commenting to you when she would have obviously remembered the previous day's conversation. There is no law that says you always have to be the first one to say "Hi" or say anything else. So she felt no inclination to see if you were still interested in yesterday's offer.

I don't see anything stand out that you did wrong. I think you did ok in seeing things as they are after what we've told you. I think you did well in realizing you felt butt-hurt and took action to not let that torpedo you. As you get better at this you won't feel butt-hurt anymore when rejected,...it takes practice,...which means you need to get rejected more so that you can build a thinker skin.

I recommend you date a variety of girls that you don't plan on getting too involved with. Don't mislead them, let them know you are keeping it light. But it gives you dating practice. Don't be outcome focused,...just hang out, have fun. Always make sure it is fun for them, that will give you a reputation among the women as being a fun guy to go out with. Women all talk to each other all the time,...make sure that whatever they have to say about you to each other is "good".

You never know, this one you were looking at could have a different outlook later on down the road. Don't burn bridges and don't make enemies out of any of them,...although never be a doormat either. There is a balance.

[frayadventure]

Well the reason why I think you still have a chance is probably because I like to be optimistic. And, for now, I don't think you have enough information make the call that she may or may not be interested in you. I don't think people should just give up especially if you don't really know if the person likes you or not. There are some really clear expressions that you'll know for sure that you shouldn't pursue an individual anymore. For example, the way someone looks at you, if she looks at you with a weird look or a judgemental look, fake smiles, things a lot of girls are guilty of (I'm a woman and I know this 'look' because I was bullied in school by them). If she just has a poker face, then you can't be sure, but it's most likely neutral which is open for opportunity. With some girls it is a little different because sometimes they just don't know how to say no. In any case, I think this girl may be thinking about you. That conversation you posted up there was quite telling, and it seems she enjoyed your presence, although I can't say 100% because one would have to see her body language to really tell (go read up on body language pronto if you haven't, good insights!). Now when she ran into the elevator maybe she didn't want to be around you, but eh I don't think so, cause if she didn't want to be around you she would have just left immediately. Did she turn her head around away from you, when you appeared near the scene? even if she did, it could be maybe she is garnering feelings for you slowly.

One problem I will note: her friend(s). That is the biggest obstacle in my opinion. With her friends around, she is protected from any man, essentially. Also I think she's probably self-conscious with the friends around. Friends add more pressure and influence which can mar judgement at times. And I guarantee you they are talking about you, or talked about you. Most likely in a neutral manner.

Now it's a good thing you're in the same major. Perhaps the attraction on her end can blossom after more platonic and familiar interactions with you. I know i know, sometimes people don't want to wait. But if you really do like this girl and want to wait, you should. And of course people will say, there is no point in waiting, you're wasting your time. But there is a lot of romance and experience to be gained, even if you might be unsuccessful in the end, when slowly courting someone. Well, your first step is to get her alone or something of that nature... and make rapport with her. maybe in a campus library. Or try to get into a group with her in a group project. That's like a piece of cake right there, because then you can meet her for group project stuff. You aren't going to get anywhere with her friends around though. Girl friends always make things worse for their friends (sometimes).


Well keep us updated!!! Some women are hard! I am ready to hear more.

[TheEvilJester]

Well, see.... now this is exactly why I often clarify my thoughts/advice with qualifiers like "It is hard for me to know since I wasn't there to witness it..." This is also why I generally suggest giving more details in your stories. It doesn't have to be a whole novel... (says the guy who writes entire novels here on an almost daily basis. LOL!) But at least give enough details so we aren't having to fill in too many blanks and sort of assume what happened.

Because I will say this...

Based on the interaction you shared I am actually not sure if it really WAS clear you were trying to ask her out ON A DATE. Given the way that interaction went, it is entirely possible somebody could have interpreted that as you were asking her AND her friend if they wanted to go to the restaurant with you. That would certainly NOT be interpreted as a date. So, sure, maybe it still WAS her way of trying to reject you without hurting your feelings... but I'm honestly kind of 50/50 on that now. Maybe it is worth not completely giving up.

I think at this point I'd suggest maybe some random friendly chit chat with her here and there to kind of get a feel for things. If you feel like things still seem okay and not awkward, then maybe try to ask her out again, but this time be more clear you are asking her on a date. That's the only way you'd really know for sure. It is a shame she seems to be permanently attached to her friend. That does complicate things. But, if there seems to be no way to talk to her just one on one, then I guess you'd have no other choice. But, after the further details you shared, I'm not necessarily as sure that it was a rejection. May have just been a misinterpretation on her part. I'd be interested what others think based on the conversation you shared.

Good luck to you either way.

[bnme90]

Thanks for the feedback guys

[MENTION=87575]frayadventure[/MENTION], I'm gonna learn to start taking things slow while courting this girl. I, too, am starting to believe she is a slow-mover, and I'm interested in her enough that if I must wait, I will. It'll be tough, since I'm pretty impatient, but it's definitely worth the try. The more I analyze the situation, the more I feel like she's the type where you must build a rapport with her before asking her out. She's very, very passive, maybe even a little ditzy, and maybe that's why the friend(s) are playing such a big role in this. In the long-run, I'm gonna take yours and [MENTION=87416]PRW[/MENTION] 's advice in taking it slow and not burn any bridges just yet. In the meantime, I'm gonna engage in random, friendly chit-chats here and there with her, like [MENTION=71386]TheEvilJester[/MENTION] suggested, and maybe get a feel of where she's at, because it's not quite apparent just yet.

(With the elevator situation,) I thought the same thing too, that if she didn't want to see me, she could've went downstairs a lot sooner. Especially knowing the elevator takes a bit of time to get to the 8th floor, she could've fled down the stairs lol. I couldn't bring myself to look at her, so I couldn't tell you if she turned her head or not. I think 2 things were possible: 1.) She was not waiting for me and merely talking to her friends until I showed up and that's when they had to flee lol or 2.) She might've been curious and wanted to hang around and see what may potentially happen, but when I went straight to my friend instead, she probably got offended?

I think we all agree that her friend(s) is a MAJOR, MAJOR issue. To the point where it may determine whether or not I have a chance with this girl. I've never seen anything like this, where the friend(s) make or break a situation. Things would be drastically different if I had her number. And I agree that they are most likely talking about me, and probably giving advice to her like you guys are to me. Unless I get lucky and catch her walking alone to class one day, I may never get the opportunity to talk one-on-one with her.

Anyway, I'll see her tomorrow in class, and I'm a little nervous since I get this feeling it'll be awkward if and when I run into her. I'm just hoping she won't start to ignore me. But I'll provide updates as they come in, if any. One question though, I'm assuming that I shouldn't bring up what happened the other day right?

[frayadventure]

Yeah she could of gotten offended that you started talking to another girl just like that.
To your question, well it's been a day now so I am sorry for not getting back early. But I've done reading and the majority of people say not to bring up dates if you already asked before, but liek eviljester said, it wasn't clear that you were asking her. some people don't get/understand subtle signs, so you should try again once you feel comfortable.

[PRW]

it wasn't clear that you were asking her. some people don't get/understand subtle signs, so you should try again once you feel comfortable.

I agree. It could have been asked in a more specific way (and without the friend in the way),...although for college students in a college culture/environment it wasn't too bad of an attempt. College kids tend to fumble around more with that then older adults. I'm 55yo.

[GLYC]

Lots of stuff posted, and I don't have time to read it all. Massive posts lol.

But good information was given.

Yeah, I'd let her go.
Women don't make it that hard it all honesty. I agree with what PRW has said. However, even when you strive away from that rubric and fumble the ball a little.

A woman that's really open to you, will make things easy. Women that don't really like you that much will make it difficult.

I've been in the same situation.

[frayadventure]

totally disagree with letting her go. don't listen to the guy above op. how can one say that anyways, when you said "i don't have time to read it all"? Honestly too many people on the net say people should 'give up'. Well I already gave my answers in the above.

[TheEvilJester]

There's certainly something to admire in being persistent. There's also something to admire in knowing when the time is right to just move on. Fine line between being persistent and not taking a damn hint. As it is, based on all the specifics shared so far, I'm not sold on either side of the argument. Sure, there's some evidence to say maybe she is intentionally hiding behind her friend(s) as a way to avoid guys she isn't interested in dating. That if she was interested in him she'd make it easy. ...BUT... women often tend to hang out in groups of friends. That's not so abnormal. It doesn't automatically mean she's trying to avoid anybody/anything. She may just enjoy her time with her friends.

Sure, it MAY be that she knew darn well what she was doing. But, it is just a possible that she didn't interpret his request as a date, given the specifics of how it happened. Either that, or maybe she thought it was but wasn't 100% sure. So, I at least do not think all hope is lost for a chance. I don't think it was clear enough.

As far as the elevator situation... honestly it is probably best not to think too much into it. If she was trying to avoid you, I should think that would have been pretty easy. So, I doubt she'd have even still been there for you to have to interpret the situation. There could be a million equally plausible explanations. Maybe she was waiting for you hoping you'd talk to her. Maybe she didn't want to talk to you and thereby fled when you came. Maybe neither. Maybe she just happened to still be there, and the elevator just happened to come shortly after you got there. Maybe she wasn't specifically avoiding from you, it just happens that the elevator got there just then. None of us, yourself included, can really know that.

I think it sounds like you have a good plan for the near future. Good luck, and let us know how things go.

[Hooo!]

Your attitude gets you vague responses

If you aren’t sincere and if you don’t have an agenda or a way you want things to be and if you don’t communicate that either verbally or nonverbally
Then you will get indestinct answers.

You are obviously not flirty. You are coming of the asexual or gay line. Nothing wrong about that - unless you’d like to **** her brains out, in which case I’d suggest being a little more fun about that idea

[bnme90]

[MENTION=87575]frayadventure[/MENTION] don't worry, I won't let her go, I've already made the decision to take it slow with this one. Yeah, I agree that too many people give up too easily nowadays, that it's becoming a "numbers game" more than anything. Like I said, I'm interested in her enough to the point where I'm willing to take it slow. But in doing so, I'm also gonna keep my options open in the meantime. But I'm gonna stick this one out.

[MENTION=71386]TheEvilJester[/MENTION], knowing the fine line is extremely vital, yet can be difficult at times. And to your point about the date not being clear enough, I think given the situation where her friends are always around, I feel like I did the best I could at hinting to her my intentions without her friends potentially stepping in and complicating things. Or maybe I didn't want to be clear to avoid getting rejected perhaps, I don't know. I would definitely be a lot a more clear if I had any way to text/contact her. Which leads me to my next point...

...which is the fact that I have no clue what to do anymore. I can't talk one-on-one with her, because she's never alone. And as some of you guys mentioned, maybe get into the same group for a group project, but it's almost impossible at this point since there are no more group projects. So I'm a bit lost as to how to take the next step and how in the world to navigate around this.

I saw her today in class, I did my own thing, sat with my group while she sat with hers. I thought of every way possible to somehow engage in some form of dialogue with her...but ended up in a conversation with a gay guy in her group.... lol...all while she and her friend looked on. Basically got everyone in her group to notice me and talk to me, just not her, which is not surprising considering how she rarely talks in class. However, she did flash a very big smile to me when we made eye contact, and I smiled back. It was one of those genuine smiles too. So a good response, if you ask me, because after what transpired last week, I didn't know what to expect from her, since I thought she was probably gonna ignore me or whatever.

So for now, that's all that's happened. About 2 days after that whole fiasco with the elevator thing last week, she underwent a major transformation. Completely changed her wardrobe, dyed her hair, and now cakes her face with heavy makeup. I don't know if this has anything to do with, anything lol, but I just wanted bring that up for what it's worth.

[TheEvilJester]

She has definitely put you in a weird situation. Because it seems virtually impossible to ever just get some one on one time with her without her entourage along for the ride. So how do you ever feel comfortable asking her out with an audience? I confess to be stumped on that myself. I too would prefer to ask a girl out (if ever I were to do such a thing) without spectators. But, sounds like she's not really giving you that chance. So, maybe the answer will be you will just have to work around it.

I'm not sure myself. Hopefully others can offer good advice there. But, I can at least continue to wish you the best of luck and hope that you do find a way.