Debates: A Holistic Perspective...

[RSK]

Can I ask what the point of this is? Medical facts are not morals. What you do right or wrong is as in kill a person or not is not comparable to if the sun is yellow or green.

talking to you is like talking to a brick wall. that's why i avoid doing it.



WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT???


did you even bother to read the paper?



OV, you like to twist things...

...let me explain: you build a 'picture'. and you create a solid foundation for your thoughts and reasonings...

...imagine a single playing card. the FACE of that card, when looked at directly, is a solid representation of what you 'build' in your pots...

you are only shining the light at ONE angle.



NOW, all it takes, is someone like me, to show OTHERS a different view of that playing card. I take the card, and show people the thin edge, that it really is. same CARD, but another perspective....



we all know that the sun is not green. what you do, right or wrong, can NEVER be compared to something as mundane as the color of the Sun...

...i'm loosing respect for you, fast.

[RSK]

Sorry, RSK, what are you asking? My background? There's plenty enough on here to figure out most if you wish. And a little bit of mystery never hurt anyone

Okay, that's cool. I just wanted to know your background. But you are right, a little bit of mystery can always be good



It's just that you suprise me with your posts. Almost as if your purpose here, is to help people find THEMSELVES. You ask different questions that most people. You ask me to THINK. For example, you asked me to THINK of WHY OV's Posts made ME post the way I did.





Well, nothing much really.

[indigosoul]

Almost as if your purpose here, is to help people find THEMSELVES. You ask different questions that most people. You ask me to THINK. For example, you asked me to THINK of WHY OV's Posts made ME post the way I did.

Well, I don't think its my PURPOSE here, if that's what you mean. That would be incredibly arrogant and isn't my intent. Its just my style for learning things. I am interested in understanding HOW ppl think. If you recall some of my earliest posts--the ones that _I_ created, I was searching for an answer to a problem I was having that dealt with just that. Understanding what someone was thinking.

Now, I just try to return the favour where I can, RSK. And I enjoy some of the ideas I find here.

And, yes, this could've gone as a PM, except that I think a few others might be thinking this way also and it might resonate w/them. Not to mention it would've been too long for a PM... Sorry for the brief digression.

[indigosoul]

Can I ask what the point of this is? Medical facts are not morals. What you do right or wrong is as in kill a person or not is not comparable to if the sun is yellow or green.

Getting back to the original thread. OV, you might want to look up the difference between Cultural and Moral Relativism. Just for your interest.

[RSK]

Well, I don't think its my PURPOSE here, if that's what you mean. That would be incredibly arrogant and isn't my intent. Its just my style for learning things. I am interested in understanding HOW ppl think. If you recall some of my earliest posts--the ones that _I_ created, I was searching for an answer to a problem I was having that dealt with just that. Understanding what someone was thinking.

Now, I just try to return the favour where I can, RSK. And I enjoy some of the ideas I find here.

And, yes, this could've gone as a PM, except that I think a few others might be thinking this way also and it might resonate w/them. Not to mention it would've been too long for a PM... Sorry for the brief digression.

i don't mind degressions at all!

and sorry about my arogance, it didn't come out the way i wanted it to! but i hope you know what i meant.........

[indigosoul]

i don't mind degressions at all!

and sorry about my arogance, it didn't come out the way i wanted it to! but i hope you know what i meant.........

I understand RSK. No offense meant, and definitely none taken.

[Only-virgins]

Actually, I happen to agree w/you that everything is relative. And more than that, that it is contextual. But that is NOT the same as saying that nothing matters. Relative differences of opinion don't cancel each other out, any more than our arguments here are cancelled out. We will choose the argument that best fits the context of our environment and beliefs, which goes DIRECTLY back to RSKs original post, BTW.

It is the same thing. If nothing is right and nothing is wrong then by default it doesn't matter, except to what the individual decides matters, but even then it only matters to him/her.

talking to you is like talking to a brick wall. that's why i avoid doing it.

Talking to you is like talking to a brick wall by my opinion. Funny thing how you avoid doing that by replying to every single one of my posts.

[RSK]

i'm going to come out of left field and say that this thread was an awesome read ...

i just gave it an excellent rating.

[indigosoul]

It is the same thing. If nothing is right and nothing is wrong then by default it doesn't matter, except to what the individual decides matters, but even then it only matters to him/her.

OK. There is no way I can argue your latter statement, OV. Can you summarize HOW this is useful as a moral philosophy, tho? I'm having difficulty thinking how one would apply this. Perhaps I am missing some point you are trying to make...?

[vashti]

I think OV is arguing for relativism as a descriptive theory rather than a normative one, but who really knows what is going on in his head?

[indigosoul]

I think OV is arguing for relativism as a descriptive theory rather than a normative one, but who really knows what is going on in his head?

So now _I'm_ lost. What is the point of any philosophy except how one might apply it to our daily lives?? Keep in mind, everyone, I have NO formal training in philosophy (except as applied to science & medicine).

Specifically, what does it mean to argue for something descriptively as opposed to normatively??? And how is that useful??

:confused:

[RSK]

...but who really knows what is going on in his head?

I don't even think HE knows!

[vashti]

So now _I'm_ lost. What is the point of any philosophy except how one might apply it to our daily lives?? Keep in mind, everyone, I have NO formal training in philosophy (except as applied to science & medicine).

Specifically, what does it mean to argue for something descriptively as opposed to normatively??? And how is that useful??

:confused:

I don't think it IS useful, but I think this is how he can justify his claims that relativism "just is" while professing to hold utilitarianist views.

[indigosoul]

I don't think it IS useful, but I think this is how he can justify his claims that relativism "just is" while professing to hold utilitarianist views.

Oh. Well, I suppose he'll let us know. I was more interested in this discussion to help RSK with his original question, which seemed more to do with how philosophy can be applied to real life problems, such as those in medicine.

[Only-virgins]

OK. There is no way I can argue your latter statement, OV. Can you summarize HOW this is useful as a moral philosophy, tho? I'm having difficulty thinking how one would apply this. Perhaps I am missing some point you are trying to make...?

Philosophy(love of wisdom), also know as the search for the truth, and not the search for a practical use. I don't care if you can hold my beliefs up in some practical cultural way.

I might have made a mistake on here though but its not to large. I am arguing Subjective morals and not exactly cultural relativism. It is small though because the only difference is that cultural relativist hold that what a culture says is true is true to them, I say its all individually subjective, culture simply inforces some basics ones to prevent anarchy.

Example one: There is no culture, You are a human being with your current mind. You have a starving family in a cave some were and as you are wondering around you stumble into a individual holding a feast that your family can eat for weeks. There are scavengers flying about too. On one hand you can kill this individual were you can then feed your family, feed scavengers, his decomposing body would only help the dirt soil, and you would be happy. Only person who would see this as a wrong would be the individual you will kill but soon after you kill him he will be to dead to care or consciously feel negatively towards the situation.

Question then: Do you kill him?
I say: I would, assuming I am stronger(or better equipped) and he doesnt want to share lol.

I don't think it IS useful, but I think this is how he can justify his claims that relativism "just is" while professing to hold utilitarianist views.

What is so hard about understanding how I can know subjectivism is fact and hold Utilitarian view as a value of mine?