Shooting Amish People

[King Zarathu]

if ("modern US federal military".equals("militia") {
     return true;
} else {
     return false;
}

No.

[vashti]

Go ahead Vashbitch, break it apart.

I was insinuating by that militia definition that a there are militias outside of what Vash is referring to (being the modern US federal military).

Vashbitch? haha! I like it.

[TDurden]

if i were in the new orleans situation i wouldn't have or use a gun. i'd get a knife just in case and get the **** out. secondly, vashti's right, it's not a right to own a firearm, it's a privelage. i'll give an example for how that would work, but keep in mind no one is avoiding your questions, you just keep changing them. it would take 1 month to be able to purchase a gun, it would be illegal to have a weapon oustide your home unless for hunting purposes. if you were caught your weapon would be taken and you would be fined a significant sum or jailed for 1-2 months. this is of course off the top of my head, i'm sure there are better ways.

and no, i don't want the government running my life. but it seems like you don't want a government period which is psychotic. the government exists to maintain order and reason and in order to do that they need to limit peoples freedom. making murder illegal is not them controlling our lives it's them protecting us. you're forgetting the reason laws and governments exist. they are not out to get us and destroy our culture.

[King Zarathu]

Vashbitch? haha! I like it.

Vashbitch and Gigabitch.... Oh shit.

[Junket]

i'd get a knife just in case and get the **** out.

If you really think getting out was that easy. Think again, there were people crossing the bridges on I-10 but were turned away by other district police that simply did not want survivors fillin' their streets. Secondly, most people weren't by themselves, many of those left had children, or incapacitated relatives/neighbors. Also the people were told the Feds would be there to supply them with food/water, transportation out. If there's anything you should know about the government, it's that you can't depend upon them to act in a timely fashion. Whether they can or not is not the issue, it's simply the fact they're not dependable. Too much red tape.

secondly, vashti's right, it's not a right to own a firearm, it's a privelage.

Mmmm...no, last time I checked, it's still our right. Driving is a privilege. Whether you believe it should be or not is not the issue.

it would take 1 month to be able to purchase a gun, it would be illegal to have a weapon oustide your home unless for hunting purposes.

Why should it take a month? What effect will that have on purchasing a gun? Also, in Philadelphia specifically it's illegal to carry any firearm in a public place. Regardless of whether you have the permit to carry. Makes sense, I can understand that. Exceptions are strictly to transporting your firearm. It must be secured in a specific fashion, for example, unloaded, disassembled, in a secure case. Only taken from your home, to your car, and from you car to, the gun range/hunting ground, what have you. It's not like gun laws don't already exist. In fact, I'm perfectly satisifed with the laws they have in place. I wouldn't strongly oppose the requirement for a safety course, depending upon the region. Cities tend to have stricter laws anyway.

but it seems like you don't want a government period which is psychotic. the government exists to maintain order and reason and in order to do that they need to limit peoples freedom.

I do not believe I've made any favorable remarks to an anarchist society. I simply stated the purpose of firearms besides necessity for those who hunt for a living, is also to arm the democracy in the even the government becomes a tyranny. Also, might I mention, our American government is really supposed to protect our freedoms.

they are not out to get us and destroy our culture.

Once again, I never suggested that they are. However it is not unlike governments to vie for more power when they feel threatened just as any human. If you are to believe America will always be the land of the free. Think again, good things don't last forever. Might as well be prepared. That's all it is, a simple precaution.

[TDurden]

you're right, i forgot how unstable the world is today and how all the governments in the developed first world contries are suddenly going bat shit crazy. my bad.

for the record, i'm not saying "no guns." just more restrictions.

people will kill no matter what but it doesn't mean we should make it easy for them

[King Zarathu]

people will kill no matter what but it doesn't mean we should make it easy for them

Also, a considerable amount of suicides are due to kids finding their parents' guns.

[derm]

Also, a considerable amount of suicides are due to kids finding their parents' guns.

...........or their parents rope or parents cooker

[Junket]

Also, a considerable amount of suicides are due to kids finding their parents' guns.

Accidental suicides, or deliberate?

If it's accidental, then it's most likely because the kid wasn't taught about gun safety, the parent obviously isn't keeping it in a secure place or in a secure fashion (disassembled). If any of that were the case, I would put part of the blame on negligence of the parent(s).

If it was deliberate, then see above, as well as, obviously somethin' is up more than mere curiousity on the side of the kid. If a kid is going out of his way specifically to shoot himself, then there's something more wrong than lax gun laws.

you're right, i forgot how unstable the world is today and how all the governments in the developed first world contries are suddenly going bat shit crazy. my bad.

While I will not deny in a global perspective we are going bat shit crazy, I think you are exaggerating just a bit. Stop freakin' out wank.

[Tiay]

I don't have time to read all this so i'll just note a few things;

1. i'd be nearly impossible to outlaw guns in the US. even if you completely stopped selling them, people would still hide one in the attic, etc. Then all the law-abiding people wouldn't have one, and the crazy people would. not good.

2. vashti, come to Ireland, not even the police have guns here.

3. i'd be scared to live in a place where regular people can buy guns.

4. the increase in school shootings sounds like it's partly caused by a bad education system?

5. the concept that everyone has a right to own a gun is scary, fras. Accidents happen, and when people have guns, those accidents are more likely to be fatal. I don't care if you blame a negligent parent for leaving out a gun or not. The end result is the same.

6. "The United States has higher rates of firearm ownership than do other developed nations, and higher rates of homicide. ..... cross-sectional studies have found a positive association between various measures of firearm availability and overall rates of homicide, a trend that holds across regions, states, cities, and counties" ([URL="http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1447364"]link[/URL])

you can argue with the statistics on that of course, but it just seems like common sense; more objects designed to kill people equals more dead people.

[vashti]

4. the increase in school shootings sounds like it's partly caused by a bad education system?

I don't think so. I think it is caused by by a mix of opportunity, access to weapons, negligent parenting and rotten people with no impulse control. I genuinely don't think any part of it can justifiably be blamed on the schools, unless you want to blame them for not having metal detectors at each doorway.

[Tiay]

fair enough, that makes sense. I suppose as long as the school has a counsellor that troubled kids could go to, they can't really do much more, at least not on a normal budget

[vashti]

Unfortunately, the kids who need the counselling the most are probably the least likely to go. Anyway, the last two shootings (in Colorado and the Amish school) were done by adults who wanted to kill children. Sick bastards.

[Tiay]

bah :| guns or no guns, there will always be sick bastards..

[vashti]

True; the guns only make it easier to kill faster and in greater numbers.