Enough to end it?

[Journey]

I have been seeing a great girl for about 6 months. I’m 31 and she’s 28. We have fallen in love. We spend weekends and one or two nights a week together. I’m not in the skirt-chasing stage of life anymore and I have been thinking of being with her forever. Careers, chemistry, and everything is there except for one thing.

A while ago we were watching TV and the word pre-nuptual agreement came up. She said she would never sign anything like that. I said I thought they made sense. I dropped the issue and we carried on, but it has always kind of been in the back of my head. I have since done more research and I still think they are a good idea.

She asked me a few days ago if there was anything that concerns me about our relationship. I said that this is the first time that I have ever seriously thought about marriage with anyone and I told her the things I love about her.
We have both been in long-term relationships. I don't want to drag on another relationship so I brought up this topic that I thought had the potential to to be an issue for us.

Well, she reiterated that she would never sign anything - that she could not be next to a man that would want one - that it signals divorce and a business contract for her - not a loving, lasting marriage built on trust. I see where she is coming from.

Thinking from my perspective I have a lot at stake - personally, as well as my inheritance. I look at the statistics and think there is a chance of divorce. I basically want the pre-nup to read that everything that is ours before marriage, including inheritance, remains ours in the event of divorce, and everything that we build together financially during the marriage can be split 50/50.

She knows my family and what we have. But I have never met any of her family members although I know that they are all career professionals. She also has a good job and works very hard. Although she has no signs of personal wealth (she has only been in this city for a year - living downtown in a one-bedroom apartment and taking the bus everywhere) never once has she given me the impression that she is a gold-digger. On the contrary - I have never been pampered more and treated better than with her.

I have told her that I am meeting a family lawyer very soon just to understand the details of pre-nuptual agreements better, and what could potentially happen. She has given me as much time as I need. She, however, is very firm in her decision. She would never sign anything. This is a very hard time for me.
Please let me know what you think. Thanks.

[Gigabitch]

Dude, check out the law in the state where you live. You may not need a pre-nup at all unless you're actually concerned that she might be a gold-digger (which it sounds like she isn't).

I know you think you're being reasonable, and maybe you are, but you're also being very hurtful. I think you should have discussed this with someone who isn't emotionally invested in you before bringing it up to her. I hope your research turns up something helpful to you.

Best of luck.

[Journey]

Thanks. I have looked up the law in my province (canada) and it states that if there's no pre-nup, every asset that is considerred a "family asset" (used by both parties and children if any) are devided equally 50/50. That family asset can be pre and post marriage.

[Ellynn]

Ah, prenups. Such a touchy subject.

But, if I had assets, I would want to protect them. I see her point too though, a contract drawn up before marriage is almost like you are saying the marriage is doomed and that is always there as a reminder..

But the facts are, that not all marriages last forever. Things change, people change.

Since you did some research, then I guess it all comes down to some sort of compromise. Good luck with that!

[Journey]

Just to let you know, I have alot of assets that I think would be considerred "family assets". I want children and so does she. We would probably use my real estate, cars etc. during the marriage, and without an agreement, they would be considerred "family assets". My inheritance would also be split 50/50 most likely.

[Gigabitch]

Yipe. That changes things. I assume you have your assets set up in a family trust for tax purposes. There may be a way to set this up so that it only goes to descendants, not spouses.

[Tiay]

I hope you can arrange it so that you don't need it..
part of me wants to slap you and say, dude, if you love this woman then you should trust her enough. But I get where you're coming from- people change. divorces happen.
And personally, if I was going to change into some bitter divorce bitch taking my hubby's money, I don't want me to get it.

How have you talked to her about it? there's a world of difference between "I'd like to marry you- here sign this prenup" to "I know in my heart that I will love you forever, and I know it's silly but I need this piece of mind, so please humour me and sign this". You see what I mean?

[vashti]

My husband suggested a prenup when we got married. I wouldn't sign one either. (Obviously he married me anyway.) I have a lawyer friend who advised against it, saying that to draw up a pre-nup is to plan for a divorce. But what I was most concerned about was protecting the interests of my future kids. If he ever divorced me, I would want my kids to maintain whatever lifestyle they had become accustomed to - whether they were at my home or their father's.

[misombra]

jouuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuurn!

look, 50/50 isn't bad. if money isn't a big deal to her why wouldn't she just sign it? personally if the person i was about to marry had a lot of money and they wanted me to sign a paper that said that if we separate i'm entitled to half their posessions, i would think that totally fair.

to me people like your girlfriend live in lollipop land or something.

if money isn't a big deal to her then signing the paper shouldn't either. if my family had a lot of money i would never marry a guy who wasn't willing to basically say that in the event we were to separate or i was to die, my things would go exactly where i want them to go and you get exactly half, which imo is pretty generous.

but i see her a point a little. getting married means signing a contract saying you'll be together until you die and at the same time you're signing a contract saying but if something happens... it's just wrong, in so many ways. but either way, it's still nothing more than a bunch of contracts, that marriage is.

but people are crazy journ, they change. 6 months is not long enough to judge how they will react if one day you two are married with kids and you want a divorce, she wants the kids and a whole bunch of money and guess what, you'll be going to court forever. it would suck.

but anyway journ, if i REALLY wanted to marry you and you were willing to give me half of your inheritance if we split up i would sign that thing in a heartbeat.

[vashti]

How much money are you worth? I mean, what you might consider significant may not be significant to someone else. Also, please confirm you are trying to avoid giving her 50% of ONLY your pre-marital assets.

I don't know how things work in Canada, but in California, everything you are asking for would be standard - assets solely owned before you marry are yours, and anything gained during marriage is split 50/50. Just don't go buying a house, for example, for your kids to live in using your separate property. In other words, don't mix your separate property with your communal property. However, (to me) that doesn't sound like a marriage. A marriage is when both people - in good faith - put all they are and own and care about on the table, and fully join lives.

I understand the interest in a pre-nup when you have second marriages, step-kids, etc. but I honestly don't get it when you are still trying to build a future with a life partner. Do you trust her, or don't you, and how much do you trust your own judgement?

[Gigabitch]

I ended up with half of the value of our house when we got divorced, which was paid for with his inherited money. Here's why I think that's okay:
1. In my eyes, the house I bought with that gain is my daughter's house. The settlement money was the downpayment and I'm paying off the rest.
2. I put up with his inherited bullshit for over ten years.
3. I gave up my career to have a family at his request.
4. I feel that I did my best in our marriage. He's the one who started drinking like a fish and wouldn't quit, not me.

Journey, ask yourself this: How will you be changing her life if she marries you? Will you be asking her to give up anything? What's that worth?

[misombra]

where the hell is journ anyway?

[url]http://youtube.com/watch?v=Gk47RTBs4Hc[/url]

[Gigabitch]

Are we guessing? I say Toronto.

[lin]

Is it because I'm English .. or perhaps just not particularly rich ... it would never even occurr to me to go into such detail about the finances of someone that I claimed to love so much , that I wanted to go through marriage ceremony with them .

[JohnsonROd]

I see exactly where you're coming from, and where she is coming from.

I'm in the same situation when it comes to assets and wealth... but coming from a guy who is your shoes... I still wouldn't make a girl I love sign a prenup if I wanted her to be my wife...

It shows a lack of trust