i wish i could outsource myself.
i wish i could outsource myself.
baby ya hustle. but me i hustle harder.
Not me. I've lived with the Canadian system all my life. And I lived in the US for 8 years, had to pay for health insurance, AND I worked in a high-profile Boston hospital (& had my son in one) for 4 years. Plus I got to listen to all the 'system rants' from the MD-reseachers (who were also clinicians) when I was a lab bitch for all those years.
I am well able to express an opinion that directly compares the two systems, at least how it was as of a few years ago. I have a pretty good idea of the problems (and good points, there are some) with HMOs. When you compare quality of service (the standard of care in Canada is just as good as the US) versus cost, the Canadian system (despite its problems) is still better for the general population who can't afford to pay out of pocket for service. I haven't even seen Sicko yet, but if this is what MM is concluding, I agree.
I will say that, for high-end treatment, the big US research institutions are superior. If someone I loved got a rare cancer or brain disease that required specialized treatment or surgery, I know exactly where I would go, and its nowhere near here.
I don't like HMOs. I greatly prefer PPOs. Perhaps unfairly, I equate the quality of care in a socialized system to be the equivalent of an HMO.
Relax... I'll need some information first. Just the basic facts - can you show me where it hurts?
In Canada, anyway, you aren't limited to who you see like we were when we were on Harvard-Pilgrim. No copay here either (tho I think there should be--its abused here).
One thing I liked more was that my son had direct access to a pediatrician, here, its a GP unless you have a special problem.
PPOs weren't an option for us, interestingly.
I was thinking more in terms of wait lists and the need for referrrals to see a specialist. Even as it is, I resent that I have to drive 45 minutes one way to my daughter's neurologist to have him do a two minute exam and tell me we need to schedule another EEG (different day, of course) when that is exactly what I told them I wanted when I first called in. If I had another hoop to jump through before getting her the care she needs, I would feel positively homicidal.
Relax... I'll need some information first. Just the basic facts - can you show me where it hurts?
Oh yes, THAT part is the same here in Canada. You need a referral (or an extended health plan) to get covered for 'extra services'. But that didn't happen with our HMO, strangely. But might that have been b/c of our close association with a research hospital; we had facilities like medical imagining right on campus? So maybe my experience of US healthcare isn't as typical as I'm thinking.
I can't speak for elsewhere, but here in California, if you are insured by HMO, you have to be referred out to a specialist, and very often you have to fight in order to be referred. There are some sort of financial incentives involved in NOT referring patients, or so I've been taught.
Relax... I'll need some information first. Just the basic facts - can you show me where it hurts?
I spoke to a friend whose from Cuba. Michael Moore had made it sound glammy to live in Cuba and how great everything was there. Had to check it out. Today she comes in, she doesnt speak english but my BF helped with the convo. I asked her if Cuba is so great why is she here with her family? She said Cuba is horrible. She was thrown in a hole for 3 days for making pizza and selling it. There is no money there, although the govt gives you an alloted amount of food per month and free health care, you just cant survive. She's glad to be here in the States. I wont get into the debates above I dont have any info to site, Im still learning about it. But it gets me because we do spend so much money in other countries and on so much other bs, I just cant imagine were in the position were in right now. I dont like the fact illegal immigrants get free health care.
everything happens for a reason...beginning to wonder why.
Oh, my God. He glamorized living in Cuba? Wtf? How does he explain all those people on rafts trying to make it to Florida?
Spammer Spanker
You mean these people?
About one in five working American families can't afford basic needs, and many scrape to get by on insufficient income and government aid, policy researchers conclude in a report (.pdf file) released today.
Many of these workers earn too much to qualify for "work supports" such as Medicaid and food stamps, while their employer-provided health insurance doesn't cover enough of their basic medical costs, according to the report by the Center for Economic and Policy Research and the Center for Social Policy at the University of Massachusetts.
Don't cry, don't regret and don't blame
Weak find the whip, willing find freedom
Towards the sun, carry your name
In warm hands you are given
Ask the wind for the way
Uncertainty's gone, your path will unravel
Accept all as it is and do not blame
God or the Devil
~Born to Live - Mavrik~
No, those uninsured patients are a figment of your conscience that places lower taxes on the scale as more important than tens of millions of people who could be covered universally. If there was a universal health insurance in your country you wouldn't be subjected to the torment of seeing the uninsured everywhere anymore.
Here is the Census link for you again. By the way, I didn't edit that post before you commented on it.
There is a breakdown of the uninsured. [url]http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/releases/archives/income_wealth/007419.html[/url]
Last edited by Mish; 15-01-08 at 07:23 AM.
Don't cry, don't regret and don't blame
Weak find the whip, willing find freedom
Towards the sun, carry your name
In warm hands you are given
Ask the wind for the way
Uncertainty's gone, your path will unravel
Accept all as it is and do not blame
God or the Devil
~Born to Live - Mavrik~
I understand what you are trying to say Sphinx and I too feel bad that some people take advantage of the system. But please understand that these people don't make up the majority. For every one who abuses the system there are ten who are genuinely willing to work hard for what they earn.
However on the subject of not wanting to work, I've seen a lot of people in the offices filling up office positions who get a lot of money, but still don't do any work. They are rich, but they couldn't care less about working and they don't get fired they just continue filling up the positions because they have good social skills orsometimes for no reason what so ever. Rich or poor it doesn't really matter, there are people from both sides of the fence who are inherently lazy. As far as businesses suffering I think that they might be suffering even more from the lazy rich than the lazy poor.
Last edited by Mish; 15-01-08 at 07:11 AM.
Don't cry, don't regret and don't blame
Weak find the whip, willing find freedom
Towards the sun, carry your name
In warm hands you are given
Ask the wind for the way
Uncertainty's gone, your path will unravel
Accept all as it is and do not blame
God or the Devil
~Born to Live - Mavrik~
It sounds to me like a good argument for 1 in 5 families practicing family planning. Also, please note that "many" is not an actual number. It is a subjective amount, and again, they DO get medical care if it is an emergency. And again, you do not take into account the number of illegal immigrants who are included in the uninsured.
Relax... I'll need some information first. Just the basic facts - can you show me where it hurts?
Is this why you favour lower taxes to universal health care? You think these people actually deserve it?
Sorry Vash. I forgot you need to be reminded every single time. The number in the article was 41 million.
That's if the hospital management decides to be altruistic and run down the hospital by offering freebies. And what happens if they decide to not?
And how many illigal immigrants are there in US? 41 million?
Okay Vash, let's be crazy and say 50% of those people are illigals. What about the 20 million hard working US citizents who are not as blessed as other Americans with money. What about them? According to you do they deserve this as well?
Don't cry, don't regret and don't blame
Weak find the whip, willing find freedom
Towards the sun, carry your name
In warm hands you are given
Ask the wind for the way
Uncertainty's gone, your path will unravel
Accept all as it is and do not blame
God or the Devil
~Born to Live - Mavrik~
Vash if you dont mind me asking what is your daughter being treated for? I cant imagine the crap youre going through with Dr's. I feel for you trust me! Goodluck with whatever it is, you'll be in my prayers!
everything happens for a reason...beginning to wonder why.