Michael Moore...Sicko (

[IndiReloaded]

She said she's against paying higher taxes that would improve hospitals in US including the one she works at as well as make the health system in her country fairer for everyone. Not only that, but she also appears to be against any alternative measure of diverting funds from other areas such as war in Iraq to fund universal health care that wouldn't require anyone to pay higher taxes at all.

If I were American, I would be skeptical of ANY discussion of raising taxes for anything. The fact the government wasted billions on a needless war says there's plenty of $ & the issue is about distribution (and mismanagement?).

Did Vash actually SAY she'd rather put $ into Iraq than into healthcare? I don't have time to go & check the posts, but I seriously doubt it. More likely you've taken something out of context.

[Mish]

Do you really think I give a shit if you are proud of me, you condescending, sanctimonious fool?

Look at you miss Vash suddenly getting all personal and accusing me of exact same behaviour you display time and time again. Rather hypocirtical don't you think? So how does it feel when the same is applied back to you?

For the record, I DID state that I favored employer-provided insurance pages back, but you were so busy listening to yourself talk, you must have missed it.

You said you favoured, but you didn't say you actually supported change at the ballot box. Now that you've clarified that bit, I put my argument to rest in relation to you. Though, I still would like to know if you would support this on the national level.

[misombra]

why is it so important for you to know this? you're cover is blown mish. just give it up.

[Mish]

Yep. That's how I arrived at my current situation. How does your first question make any sense? You can't get a job because of no work experience? That's like when this woman told me the other day, "Sorry honey, we don't take checks unless you've written one to us before."

This is how it makes sense. Most medium to high paying jobs these days request work experience, if they are to hire you. Even lower paying jobs want to see you've worked somewhere before. I (personally) can get a job solely based on my past industry experience without needing anything else. If you don't have past experience in accounting and not degree you have very little chance when looking for a job. If you don't have any experience in IT and not degree you have very little hope on finding something decent in that field. Same goes for all other areas.

These are funded primarily by local and state taxes. As for the extra I pay to the federal government, I have no problem as I travel very frequently (by road) and use such services in other areas.

Okay, let's use an example I provided previously with Medicaid / Medicare US helath care program for the elderly. You are not seeing a return on investment in that program, should you continue paying taxes?

I feel fine. Being a soldier is a job here in the U.S., and the job description entails the possibility of getting killed. Maybe I would oppose such if it were a draft or mandated service, but it's not as of now. Our soldiers are compensated for the risk they knowingly take when signing up.

You want to know why I think we invaded, Mish?

That bastard Saddam wouldn't melt down a few of his gold palaces so the country could have free health care.

See? He was a bad guy anyway. Doesn't that make our war altruistic?

It's not. Because using exact same logic you could justify another country invading US. You can say that bastard Bush didn't melt down a few of his savings accounts didn't re-distribute some money around to provide US with a free health care. You could say if invasion of Iraq on these grounds is altruistic wouldn't invasion of US on exact same grounds be altruistic as well? No, it wouldn't be.

Yes. Saddam was a really bad guy. He was as bad as they come. But there are tonnes of bad guys just like him, some of them even operating from your country. Who should decide which bad guys should be removed by violent means that would effectively see hundreds of thousands of innocent people killed in the process as well? Who should be this judge, jury and executioner? The situation in Iraq as it is right now hasn't gotten any better since Saddam was in power. Some say it's even gotten worse as a result of US operations. How is this altruistic?

And once again, what do you think has been gained there? What is the return on investment that you're getting for your tax dollar?

Yes, but where I want to make a difference, not where a government tells me I have to.

So given a choice, would you vote for scrapping Medicaid / Medicare?

Funny, I've witnessed each of these examples with a public fire department

.

Really? Are there Fire Departments in US which operate privately? (for profit)

I have no say in the life of the person up until he reaches the "elderly" stage, therefore, no.

Altruistic- unselfishly concerned for or devoted to the welfare of others (opposed to egoistic). Synonyms- charitable, generous, philanthropic; benevolent, unselfish.

How is a responsibility, an expected (forced) payment into this system, being altruistic?

Sorry, by no do you mean that there is no social responsibility to pay taxes or is it a no to Medicaid question?

Social responsibility / Altruism. I gave you an example of Medicare in US. Your tax dollars at the moment (right now) pay for health care for the elderly. It's an altruistic policy in a sense that you are not getting any return on investment for it. It's philantropic, benevolent, unselfish. But, you are paying these taxes because it was decided at the government level that it's your social duty that you should pay it. Does this make sense?

It must be "dark selfishness" that keeps you from peddling your computer and other worldly possessions, giving the money away, and wandering the streets of the U.S., tending the uninsured poor who desperately need it.

It's selfishness Mish. One that even if simply given a choice to donate your possessions and get up and take to the streets, one would still reject it. One that doesn't care that poor people need the help of your personal free services without any compensation, one that doesn't really care about the plight of poorer people than you (aside from writing about what other people should do), one that puts personal pride on an internet forum ahead of other people as long as you don't have to take the little effort to get out of materialism and hit the streets.

What's that? You can't see helping out in such a way? You already donate money and time? You know, you're right. We should vote this idea in. If all citizens sell out and join you in aiding the poor on the streets, the burden you have will be a lot less. Wait a second...voting on something to ease your burden? My selfishness sense is tingling!

Second paragraph look familiar? It should...

Hahaha. You're funny.

Yes, I will admit it. In that sense I am selfish. Guilty as charged. I will not become homeless in order to help others. I will help out as much as I can and I will vote for higher taxes but I will not go to that extreme. So yes, you're absolutely right there is a tiny part of me which is selfish. I freely admit it. Are you ready to admit that you are a tiny bit selfish as well? Or are you ready to admit that you are a whole lot more selfish than that. Selfish to a point that you wouldn't even vote for universal health care?

Allow me to borrow and slightly modify another.

So Mish, if this is not a display of selfishness then what is it? How do you describe this phenomenon? Please help me understand.

~Sphinx

It's a display of a tiny bit of selfishness. Tiny, miniscule bit. A bit of selfishness which prefers personal survival. But there are levels of selfishness. There is a tiny selfishness which can be justified and there is humongous selfishness which can't be justified. There's the difference

[Mish]

If I were American, I would be skeptical of ANY discussion of raising taxes for anything. The fact the government wasted billions on a needless war says there's plenty of $ & the issue is about distribution (and mismanagement?).

Did Vash actually SAY she'd rather put $ into Iraq than into healthcare? I don't have time to go & check the posts, but I seriously doubt it. More likely you've taken something out of context.

Vash has now come out and said that she voted on a policy which is not too far away from universal health care on the state level, so I take my words back Indi. I didn't know that.

I agree with you though that it looks like there is an issue with distribution and mismanagement of resources as well. It will be interesting to see if Democrats will bring in a policy to clean this up at the election.

[Junket]

Vash has now come out and said that she voted on a policy which is not too far away from universal health care on the state level, so I take my words back Indi. I didn't know that.

I agree with you though that it looks like there is an issue with distribution and mismanagement of resources as well. It will be interesting to see if Democrats will bring in a policy to clean this up at the election.

How long have you lived in the United States?

[Mish]

How long have you lived in the United States?

I have never lived in United States before. Never ever.

Is this the part where you say that because I've never lived in US I have absolutely no right to say anything about your country? That I shouldn't dare to even open my mouth and critique politics in another country like I do in my own? Is this the part where you tell me to shut up because I'm just another US hating foreigner like the rest of them? Is this the part where you say that I should only speak about my own country which is not perfect (which it is true, it's not perfect) and not even think about discussing any issues in US in a US related thread on a public forum? Is this the part where you assault my freedom to speak freely? A freedom that you put so much value on.

[Junket]

Is this the part where you say

I didn't read past the this sentence but, yes to all of it.

There's no room in the world for Aussies.

Except for Charlieboy.

Thread Closed.

[misombra]

yaaaaaaaaaaYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

[Gigabitch]

I strongly disagree with the act of closing a thread simply because you want to end a discussion. If you don't want to engage, don't post, but this is just like slamming a door in someone's face.

I am against censorship in most regards.

Thread opened.

[misombra]

oh snap. mod fight!!!!!

[TheSphinx]

Thank you Fras, I needed a breather.

Thank you Giga, I've got one or two more posts left in me.

~Sphinx

[Junket]

I strongly disagree with the act of closing a thread simply because you want to end a discussion.

This stopped being a discussion once people started judging each other's level of selfishness.

If this thread resorts to that level again, I will indeed close the thread and then some.

[Gigabitch]

Then give infractions, but don't punish the people who aren't being dickheads.

[Junket]

I will not discuss this here, check your PM.