mormonism

[Gribble]

Hell is the most amusing aspect of religion. God creates humanity. God gives humanity free will. God burns you eternally if you dare exercise the free will it gave you.

[Mish]

Hell is the most amusing aspect of religion. God creates humanity. God gives humanity free will. God burns you eternally if you dare exercise the free will it gave you.

Funny I know

From what I understand it works a bit differently.

God creates humanity. God gives humanity free will. God gives Satan free will. Satan creates hell and burns you eternally if you dare exercise the free will God gave you, if your free will seperates you from God. Therefore God is innocent.

Religious philosophy fascinates me sometimes. It's a story with a very interesting plot.

[tooxshort]

Regardless, you can't deny that most religions are meant to steer people into living good lives ... Aside from praising God and all other rituals, the moral of the story is being a good person.

How else can you help the masses be better people? You can make laws telling people not to kill, but then there are folks that'll do it because they believe they can get away with it ... If you add religion in there (and that someone is watching you 24/7), you affect more than just the person's present life, but their after-life as well ...

[lesa]

How else can you help the masses be better people? You can make laws telling people not to kill, but then there are folks that'll do it because they believe they can get away with it ... If you add religion in there (and that someone is watching you 24/7), you affect more than just the person's present life, but their after-life as well ...

Are you saying that we are animals without religion guiding us?

[tooxshort]

Are you saying that we are animals without religion guiding us?

Not everyone ... But I do think there would be a great deal of chaos is people were left without any spiritual belief ...

People wonder it all the time ... Are we naturally good or are we good because we fear punishment? Many of the laws here were based on religion ... If there isn't a punishment for a crime, then where is the guilt?

[lesa]

Not everyone ... But I do think there would be a great deal of chaos is people were left without any spiritual belief ...

People wonder it all the time ... Are we naturally good or are we good because we fear punishment? Many of the laws here were based on religion ... If there isn't a punishment for a crime, then where is the guilt?

Can't regular law do?

There are a few who believe in doing "evil", wrong or whatever it's called because of religion. My ex thought he was very good because of his beliefs and many others do too. Religion tells you how you will live you life and some abuse the information given to them in books. I think having a spiritual belief is great but religion doesn't necessarily have you seek a spiritual life...

[Gribble]

If I remember correctly, God created hell and cast Satan into it. God then laid down its laws. All Satan does is try to lead us into breaking those laws. God ultimately judges us and damns us eternally for not obeying the laws it laid out. Hence our free will is meaningless. God tells us we have the freedom choose whether to love it or not. However, if we choose not to love God it sentences us to the most horrific, unimaginable pain.

It's kind of like Saddam Hussein holding an election. Same mechanic. You're free to vote for whoever you want. However, if you don't vote for Saddam he's going to have his friend drill holes into your kneecaps. It's funny how much God has in common with ruthless dictators.

[Mish]

Are you saying that we are animals without religion guiding us?

Richard Dawkins in "The Selfish Gene" suggests that our genes act entirely in their own self interest. This perspective on evolution suggests that people will be motivated to act in a way that furthers development of their genes and secures the gene development in the future. Ultimately from this point of view our consciousness and free will are unimportant, useful only when they serve the development and passing on of the genes. This is not too disimilar with how the animal world operates.

Ultimately I see laws as guides that try to affect our behaviour through various punishments that may or may not affect us here and now. Sometimes easily side stepped with enough cunning, money and loop hole surfing. Religion cuts a lot deeper to control our behaviour. All the cunning and money in the world won't help you if you believe that you will still be punished for your acts no matter how hard you try to manipulate the outcome. As a behaviour control tool I see Religion as very effective and provided the outcomes it seeks are good very useful. Provided the outcomes it seeks are good, which unfortunately isn't always the case. Just like anything, in the right hands Religion is good and a lot of human prosperity through history can be attributed to that, in the wrong hands though it can be pretty evil. In the wrong hands it can easily become a tool to supress, destroy, decieve and manipulate.

[lesa]

Many of the laws here were based on religion ... If there isn't a punishment for a crime, then where is the guilt?

Yes, I do believe religion helped people have a longer life expectancy because they had rules to reduce disease, crime, family abuse etc. that was extremely high back in those times. They really had no scientific medical knowledge at those times and religion was very important in that regards. We continued the traditions today but it's not really necessary in developed countries in my opinion. I do not want to fear that I will go to hell if I do not live the religion of my surround. I do want to seek and live a spiritual life though.

[Mish]

If I remember correctly, God created hell and cast Satan into it. God then laid down its laws. All Satan does is try to lead us into breaking those laws. God ultimately judges us and damns us eternally for not obeying the laws it laid out. Hence our free will is meaningless.God basically tells us we have the freedom choose whether to love it or not. However, if you choose not to love God it sentences you to the most horrific, unimaginable pain.

The interprettation I bolded out varies depending on the Religion. For example some view that God is flawless, unable to sentence to horrific pain. It is the free will of the host that ultimately decides which way he will go. If the host decides to distance self from God by action that inflicts pain on self and others, harms others and creates chaos than this host will not be able to unite with God until the host is in harmony. The only door open for this host is towards the source of chaos that the host had willingly chosen.

[lesa]

The interprettation I bolded out varies depending on the Religion. For example some view that God is flawless, unable to sentence to horrific pain. It is the free will of the host that ultimately decides which way he will go. If the host decides to distance self from God by action that inflicts pain on self and others, harms others and creates chaos than this host will not be able to unite with God until the host is in harmony. The only door open for this host is towards the source of chaos that the host had willingly chosen.

But if the host does not believe in God, then how will he know if he is going to the source of chaos that he willingly choose? He must have had those beliefs first. For example, we all may be sentenced to a life or afterlife of chaos and not even know of it because we have not studied or believe in that information.

[Gribble]

That's the biggest copout there ever was. Okay. So some dictator takes control of your country. He lays out a bunch of laws, and for each law there are horrific repercussions. He then smiles, tells everyone that he's not a bad man. He doesn't judge anyone or harm anyone. People choose to break the rules and they bring suffering upon themselves. Are you telling me that man isn't evil? Are you telling me he is innocent? How would you feel if murder was punished by immolation? What about petty theft? Homosexuality?

Furthermore, what's the cardinal rule of most of these religions? Believe. If you don't believe you go to hell. What did Gandhi do to create chaos? What'd he do to cause harm? Yet according to every branch of the Christian faith I've ever encountered that man's burning for all of eternity because he didn't believe Jesus was his savior.

[Junket]

Heh, I was given a little handout that stated that it didn't matter whether I did good things or not.

As long as I accepted Jesus into my heart, heaven would be open to me.

That's sick.

[Mish]

But if the host does not believe in God, then how will he know if he is going to the source of chaos that he willingly choose? He must have had those beliefs first. For example, we all may be sentenced to a life or afterlife of chaos and not even know of it because we have not studied or believe in that information.

According to some interprettations you don't really need to believe if your intentions and actions are good. Belief in God is a guide that makes it easier for you to take those good actions because it expands their purpose. This point of view looks more at "Self sentencing" instead of sentencing by a higher being. As in we self sentence ourselves by leading a life of chaos to chaos in the after life.

[lesa]

That's the biggest copout there ever was. Okay. So some dictator takes control of your country. He lays out a bunch of laws, and for each law there are horrific repercussions. He then smiles, tells everyone that he's not a bad man. He doesn't judge anyone or harm anyone. People choose to break the rules and they bring suffering upon themselves. Are you telling me that man isn't evil? Are you telling me he is innocent? How would you feel if murder was punished by immolation? What about petty theft? Homosexuality?

Furthermore, what's the cardinal rule of most of these religions? Believe. If you don't believe you go to hell. What did Gandhi do to create chaos? What'd he do to cause harm? Yet according to every branch of the Christian faith I've ever encountered that man's burning for all of eternity because he didn't believe Jesus was his savior.

Heh, I was given a little handout that stated that it didn't matter whether I did good things or not.

As long as I accepted Jesus into my heart, heaven would be open to me.

That's sick.

That's exactly what I am talking about! It's really disconcerting. Most religions have some good information but then stuff like this ruins it. Can we live life by believing only bits and pieces of religion(s)?