mormonism

[lesa]

According to some interprettations you don't really need to believe if your intentions and actions are good. Belief in God is a guide that makes it easier for you to take those good actions because it expands their purpose. This point of view looks more at "Self sentencing" instead of sentencing by a higher being. As in we self sentence ourselves by leading a life of chaos to chaos in the after life.

I think I am a rather good person but you never know with religion. So, if I do not believe in Jesus as my savior am I okay to God? Or are you saying that I am okay with God but humans may think otherwise?

[Mish]

That's the biggest copout there ever was. Okay. So some dictator takes control of your country. He lays out a bunch of laws, and for each law there are horrific repercussions. He then smiles, tells everyone that he's not a bad man. He doesn't judge anyone or harm anyone. People choose to break the rules and they bring suffering upon themselves. Are you telling me that man isn't evil? Are you telling me he is innocent? How would you feel if murder was punished by immolation? What about petty theft? Homosexuality?

You are making God into a dictator, but association is not very clear to me. There are certain things we do that lead us and others into harm and certain things we do that lead us and others into prosperity. I don't think this is a law that someone has created to make this so, it's just the way it is. If we ourselves choose to harm ourselves or others than why would a dictator or anyone else be responsible for it?

Furthermore, what's the cardinal rule of most of these religions? Believe. If you don't believe you go to hell. What did Gandhi do to create chaos? What'd he do to cause harm? Yet according to every branch of the Christian faith I've ever encountered that man's burning for all of eternity because he didn't believe Jesus was his savior.

Those are not the branches of Christian faith that I'm familiar with. If you ask me that it's wrong to believe in that my answer is yes. Damn silly too. As well as unjustifiable from their own Religious point of view. The silly people who say that have no authority or monopoly or foresight on who ends up where.

[Mish]

I think I am a rather good person but you never know with religion. So, if I do not believe in Jesus as my savior am I okay to God? Or are you saying that I am okay with God but humans may think otherwise?

You're okay with God according to my interprettation. Like I said before, Religion is a tool which in the wrong "questionable interests" hands can lead to a lot of bad things. Unfortunately people are people, flawed and corruptable.

[Gribble]

What about the instances when God actively carries out the punishment? How do you justify the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah? What about when God dispatched its agent of death to slaughter Egyptian children? What about the great flood? If the bible is to be believed, God is the greatest mass murderer in existence.

[Tone]

I have no problem with believing in God or some sort of higher power.

Religion, however, was invented by man. A man wrote the bible. Men translate the bible.

I have faith in a higher power. But I do not have faith in man.

[Illusional]

can't you ask to sample the goods before you decide to commit??

raverboy

[Mish]

What about the instances when God actively carries out the punishment? How do you justify the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah? What about when God dispatched its agent of death to slaughter Egyptian children? What about the great flood? If the bible is to be believed, God is the greatest mass murderer in existence.

I don't believe that every word in the Bible is the ultimate truth. Bible had been written and re-written and then re-written again. To the point where a copy of a bible to the east is different to the copy of the west. Different interpretations, translation, copy and time have created a customized version of the bible which is different to the original text. Was God the one responsible for the punishment or was it destroyed by other machinations? Likewise for Egypt, likewise for flood.

And like Tone pointed out, Bible was written by humans with own agendas and interests. Based around the belief in God. Who knows what's in there that shouldn't be in the first place. In the end it all becomes a matter of interprettation.

[lastwish]

If you add religion in there (and that someone is watching you 24/7), you affect more than just the person's present life, but their after-life as well ...

I don't believe in someone watching me 24/7 and I do fine without religion. Education does it for me.

can't you ask to sample the goods before you decide to commit??

raverboy

hmmm...ya thats what im thinking. But those ppl are scary. I can imagine mormon boy praying for forgiveness cuz he lied to me. When he asked me for my phone number i said "(long silence) You can have my email!" Then he said "sorry we don't have computers (a total lie cause when i checked out their website..they had free online chats)". Luckily I just gave them my cell number to play it safe.

hmmm...he gave me his number (tempting)

[tooxshort]

I don't believe in someone watching me 24/7 and I do fine without religion. Education does it for me.

What about those who aren't given the luxury of a proper education? You've seen ghetto schools ... they don't do shit to stop crime ...

[Illusional]

i always wanted to have sex with the priest's daughter... it's too bad that i don't attend church.

raverboy

[Lipp]

I'll be a meanie and call it Moronism.

As for religious beliefs, I'm an atheist and while I'm tolerant of most religions and their practices I'm pretty surprised how much it still influences our world, thought we'd rise above such primitive ideas by now, but guess not. Sure, religions have positive aspects, but they are already achievable without having to use such beliefs and so many negative aspects have plagued the world for hundreds of years and still today because of religious beliefs. Shame really.

[Lipp]

What about the instances when God actively carries out the punishment? How do you justify the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah? What about when God dispatched its agent of death to slaughter Egyptian children? What about the great flood? If the bible is to be believed, God is the greatest mass murderer in existence.

Or as Richard Dawkins put it.

"The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully."

[DoesntMatter]

I really dislike how people constantly pressure you and tell you there way is the right way. Especially on campus, sometimes I just want to grab their signs and smack them upside the head and tell them to get a job.

I hate it when people run about trying to 'sell' people their religion. It annoys me to no end. It shows desperation.

It's really funny how people keep on mentioning all the pressure they face from these religious establishments to join their groups. I've never ONCE experienced a single instance of someone trying to get me to join their group, except for the Jehovah's witnesses that knock on my door once a year. In fact, if someone tried that on my college campus or in high school, they would end up in a huge amount of trouble and probably face all kinds of ridicule from students and the media. It's actually almost the COMPLETE FUCCKING OPPOSITE the way most of you people here are describing it

How else can you help the masses be better people? You can make laws telling people not to kill, but then there are folks that'll do it because they believe they can get away with it ... If you add religion in there (and that someone is watching you 24/7), you affect more than just the person's present life, but their after-life as well ...

The purpose of a lot of religions are to guide people to a happier life. But what drives me insane is the ignorance of so many people that claim religion was invented as a tool to control "the masses". Do people REALLY believe the Bible was written with the intention of spreading a religion to CONTROL a group of people? WHO THE FUCCK was this scheming central authority overseeing the dissemination of this mind-controlling religion with the CONSCIENTIOUS EFFORT to CONTROL PEOPLE!???

That is another hallmark of liberal ignorance, they always imagine there is some huge conspiracy by either some nameless group or some incredibly unlikely and impossible group

Heh, I was given a little handout that stated that it didn't matter whether I did good things or not.

As long as I accepted Jesus into my heart, heaven would be open to me.

That's sick.

I think you are completely misinterpreting what you read Fras, especially considering you have this predisposition to bashing organized religion. One of the main points of Christianity is helping people who lived previously bad lives. If someone comes to recognize they had done a lot of awful things such as hurt caring family members or lie to others for self-serving purposes, they have the option to repent and from then on live a good lifestyle. It doesn't mean it doesn't matter like you said, it means it is forgiveable. If someone accepts Jesus into their heart, they won't do hurtful things to others. It's A PERSONS ACTIONS that show they accepted Jesus Simply saying "Oh, I accept Jesus!" isn't worthy of the carbon dioxide emissions from their mouth. ONLY actions prove a person has accepted Jesus

Of course pamphlets reading like this would be way too easy to misconstrue as being some awful get-out-of-jail-free card that people with an agenda like to make it look like. Obviously a very played-out idea

What about the instances when God actively carries out the punishment? How do you justify the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah? What about when God dispatched its agent of death to slaughter Egyptian children? What about the great flood? If the bible is to be believed, God is the greatest mass murderer in existence.

Murder and punishment are two different things. Let me guess, you also claim that war is murder?

When people say Christianity is a violent religion they often cite these examples and show that God is violent. That doesn't promote violence among Christianity. I've always wondered how people can mix up actions of God on humans and actions of humans on humans. The Bible tells followers NON-STOP to treat other humans respectfully and benevolently. Gods actions in those cases are meant to demonstrate punishment CARRIED OUT BY GOD, not another person, because of their wrongdoings

As for religious beliefs, I'm an atheist and while I'm tolerant of most religions and their practices I'm pretty surprised how much it still influences our world, thought we'd rise above such primitive ideas by now, but guess not. Sure, religions have positive aspects, but they are already achievable without having to use such beliefs and so many negative aspects have plagued the world for hundreds of years and still today because of religious beliefs. Shame really.

Well I'm glad you recognize religion influences the world. Basically all of Western civilization has been shaped by Christianity down to its core. When you realize Christianity and Judaism have been followed by almost everyone in Europe for the last 1,800 years or so, and consider everything during that history that built up to today, religion is inseparable from nearly every aspect of Western civilization. So it is a little bothersome that atheists never give credit to Christianity for that


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I'm sick of all the religion bashing. I used to go to church weekly when I lived at home. All I ever heard was things you people never mention. What I have ingrained into my head is this and basically sums of everything I've heard over the last 19 years of going to church (a Catholic church btw) basically was always put into practical terms by the priest

-"Jesus is the ultimate role-model, he forgives people for harming him, you do the same. Don't hold grudges"

-"Don't be jealous of your neighbors new car, even though it is easy to be jealous. You'll be happier without the jealousy"

-"Volunteers are needed for the food kitchen this Saturday. Come help out and meet some new people"

-"People needed to help out at the nursing home"

-"Be thankful for what you have. A lot of people here and other places have it much worse. Donations of money, food, and clothes can be made over there"

-"Respect the differences among us"

Etc etc

I also went to 3 different Catholic churches in Buffalo once in a while and a United Church of Christ in southern Indiana. The SAME message. When I hear people bashing Christianity so much, I can't stand it because I know how wrong you are from years and years of personal experience

[Pears]

I think people are criticizing the religious nuts who go around telling others that they will burn in hell because they won't convert.

[Gigabitch]

I think there's no harm in exploring a religion as long as you balance it out by exploring other religions at the same time. If you spend as much time learning about Buddhism as you do Mormonism, I don't think there's as much danger of getting sucked into someone else's reality vortex.

For me, a good rule has always been that I don't take rigid belief systems seriously. Anyone who says that everyone who believes differently than they do is going to hell is immediately suspect, in my opinion.