mormonism

[bluesummer]

Going back to Dm's point, the basic social norms, laws, etc are rooted from religion. .

Maybe you missed MY point, where I said religion's teachings were based on society's accepted base social norms BEFORE religion. Religion didn't just 'invent' these ideals. They were already accepted.

I It seems that most people who are anti-religion have had very little formal religious education, especially beyond childhood, and to be honest, it shows.

I grew up in a Catholic family, and spent nine years in the Salvation Army. I was also married to a Sikh, so I experienced that religion quite in depth. I have grown up in and experienced religion and still reject it, maybe even more than those who have never experienced it.

In fact, my very Catholic family has over the years abandoned the church themselves, and started focusing more on their individual spirituality and connection with God, as I have. My mother said it best when she said that to her, belonging to the church felt like punishment.....love God, or else. Also, loving God was subject to rules laid out by the church.....you have to show it certain ways. Bullshit.

[DoesntMatter]

Rawrr... Blue is fiesty

Maybe you missed MY point, where I said religion's teachings were based on society's accepted base social norms BEFORE religion. Religion didn't just 'invent' these ideals. They were already accepted.

Give me a break. The Christian concept of turning ones cheek was a completely new idea in the area it was founded. It's actually amazing the religion didn't disappear into thin air because of this. The idea of eye for an eye, revenge, punishing your fellow man and in general being ruthless (see also: Roman paganism) were the defining societal norms. You're wrong in saying society had these values before religion, at least in the case of Christianity

And if you want to say how society had CERTAIN values in place BEFORE religion picked up the ideas, well that would be fuccking impossible considering the beginning of recorded history begins with religion

[Gribble]

I hate religion more and more. When I think of the people whose minds have been warped to the point that they refuse to use condoms, rampantly spreading sexually transmitted diseases in the name of God, their father, it makes me sick.

When I think of all the medical breakthroughs that are being missed simply because we can't study a few otherwise insignificant cells, it makes me want to puke. Who knows how many lives could be saved or improved?

Feh. Religion served its purpose. It's no longer needed. It's time to discard it. Shed tradition in favor of progress.

[DoesntMatter]

I hate religion more and more. When I think of the people whose minds have been warped to the point that they refuse to use condoms, rampantly spreading sexually transmitted diseases in the name of God, their father, it makes me sick.

You're ACTIVELY choosing to hate religion, that's your fuccking problem. You point out the stereotypical minority of religious followers that act like idiots and harp on that to fuel your hate. You realize you've never even ONCE mentioned a single good thing that religion has done on your own? My mom volunteers all the fuccking time to help out people through our church, and half the time the people are completely ingrateful. The good Christian she is that doesn't bother her, whereas most people say "Fucck you, you're not happy with the help I'm giving you, then help yourself!"

Look at this thread, it started with the topic of Mormonism and turns into Christian bashing. Last time we had a generic religious thread, didn't that also turn into Christian bashing? I post in another thread about God's sex or whatever the fuccking cartoon of Mohammed and all the people that died IN RECENT TIMES (I.E. ~2 years ago) and nobody says a fuccking thing

Oh and btw I'm completely for stem cell research. Also genetic engineering on humans, that would be fuccking sick. Imagine if we found some protein helpful in forming brain convulations and did some genetic engineering to highly express that? Basically engineer geniuses. Yeah, thatd be sick

[Gribble]

That stereotypical minority is big enough and loud enough to push my country down a path of ignorance. Meanwhile, countries like China are reaping the rewards of their research.

As far as Islam goes, yeah, it's worse. Even the non-fanatics are terrible. But they're also not on my campus. They aren't knocking on my door. They aren't pressuring my politicians, shaping my country, and warping fresh young minds on my soil.

[bluesummer]

Rawrr... Blue is fiesty



Give me a break. The Christian concept of turning ones cheek was a completely new idea in the area it was founded. It's actually amazing the religion didn't disappear into thin air because of this. The idea of eye for an eye, revenge, punishing your fellow man and in general being ruthless (see also: Roman paganism) were the defining societal norms. You're wrong in saying society had these values before religion, at least in the case of Christianity

And if you want to say how society had CERTAIN values in place BEFORE religion picked up the ideas, well that would be fuccking impossible considering the beginning of recorded history begins with religion

Omfg DM, religion isn't even that frickin old in the grand scheme of things. How do you think people managed to get along before religion? What, do you think Jesus just came along and made up rules on how people should be nice, and then all of a sudden, the world became a much better place? Please. If you honestly think people were completely immoral brainless heathens before the introduction of religion, I'd say you have a lot to learn.

I'm not posting anything further on this thread, mostly because it is not going to go anywhere; also because it's just so shockingly absurd to me how much of this bullshit people eat up from what they're told, and don't use any god damn common sense.

[DoesntMatter]

That stereotypical minority is big enough and loud enough to push my country down a path of ignorance. Meanwhile, countries like China are reaping the rewards of their research.

WHAT? Don't you live in the US? That's BULLSHIT! They are a tiny minority here in the US

And here we go again with the argument that China is becoming technologically superior to us because "our backwards religion is hampering all scientific knowledge!" Well just to quanitfy things, the US has 304 Nobel prizes out of 300 million people. China? 6 Nobel prizes out of 1 billion people. Who's kicking whose ass? And if you look, starting around the late 70s, the US began making up an even way larger portion of Nobel prize winners in the sciences

While it's true they are increasing technologically, every country is. Blaming it on religion is a poor argument

[Gribble]

I do live in the US. And you know what the hot topic was for quite a while, despite a war being waged and brave young men being killed? Gay marriage. That was our big topic.
Now who gives a damn about gay marriage? Who wants to put a hold on that? Bigoted Christians. Apparently they've got enough clout to fight for their ignorant ideals.

Yes, but China's a communist nation. Recently China's begun adopting capitalist ideals. They've only just begun moving in the right direction. Give it a little more time and China's going to blow us right by. And just wait until they ditch communism entirely.

[DoesntMatter]

Yeah. nevermind maybe next time we can argue something like math or chemistry. Yay nno more bullshit

[Gribble]

2+2=5. **** you if you disagree.

[vashti]

Give me a break. The Christian concept of turning ones cheek was a completely new idea in the area it was founded.

Sorry, but not true. "Thou shalt not avenge thyself, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love your neighbor as yourself." (Leviticus 19:18).

I grew up in a Catholic family, and spent nine years in the Salvation Army. I was also married to a Sikh, so I experienced that religion quite in depth.

So you've had formal education in these religions as an adult? I don't really count being an intimate observer to be in the same vein as actual study. I was married to my husband for almost 10 years before I studied Judaism, and in my experience, it is very different to observe (even intimately) and to formally study with people who are educated in the finer, more complex points.

Anyway the reason I don't think most anti-religionists have a full comprehension of religion is because I never hear them mention anything except the teachings of elementary-school kids. The esoteric teachings are much more complex and palatable, but the only people who seem to know about them are the people who have bothered to engage in serious study. Most of the stuff I read about here is on par with typical Jr. High school atheism, and if all you know about religion is that it expects you to buy bible stories as literal truth, then of course people will rebel. Very few of the religious people I know use the bible as a historical text book.

[DoesntMatter]

2+2=5. **** you if you disagree.

Actually no Gribble, something more like this

[url]http://www.loveforum.net/off-topic-discussion/17802-lil-math-puzzle.html[/url]

Where neither you nor blue have contributed

Sorry, but not true. "Thou shalt not avenge thyself, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love your neighbor as yourself." (Leviticus 19:18).

Sorry vash should have pointed out Judaism and Christianity share that same part of the Bible, good call

[DoesntMatter]

Alright my family is here and I'm going home for the weekend, so I'll get back to you all Monday sometime.

No hard feelings I hope, obviously blue got a little upset but I hope she relents

[Junket]

Most of the stuff I read about here is on par with typical Jr. High school atheism, and if all you know about religion is that it expects you to buy bible stories as literal truth, then of course people will rebel. Very few of the religious people I know use the bible as a historical text book.

But look at all the trouble it causes.

What they need is a modern, atheistic book of general societal rules that are to the point and easy for everyone to understand.

"Don't f*ck your neighbors wife. While doing so may or may not be legal in your country or state, it's still highly frowned upon and you'll probably get your ass beat or worse once you and your hussy are found out."

[vashti]

But look at all the trouble it causes.

What they need is a modern, atheistic book of general societal rules that are to the point and easy for everyone to understand.

"Don't f*ck your neighbors wife. While doing so may or may not be legal in your country or state, it's still highly frowned upon and you'll probably get your ass beat or worse once you and your hussy are found out."

You should write an atheist's bible. I'd buy one.