Turn One night stand into a Relationship?

[Cain]

lesa.., don't bother.., let's just pretend someone is right.., and let that person be Cain.., and let's call it a day.., no point in an internet argument.., it's like trying to explore the concept of g-d with someone who is religious.. they've been raised to think a certain way and believe certain things.., and aren't able to look outside of it.., everyone else who doesn't agree is "the devil"..

As for manipulation.., both of them can assume an endless amount of situations for which the other person is somehow manipulating them.. to quote Richard Bandler:

"He's trying to hypnotize me! He asked me "why don't you come over for dinner later"?"

John Grinder actually didn't object to this assumption.., they both sat there and analyzed the simple dinner invitation that was made to them..

Get ready for this.. Let's go ask some guys here on the forum.., some harmless questions:

- Maybe you dream of having sex with every one of the Playboy bunnies.., and Penthouse and Hustler models.., but let's just say that you met this girl.., you liked her.., and you ended up having sex.., would you dump her afterwards?

- Same situation.., only now.., you get to know her a little bit better.., and find out that she's been with 2 other guys before you.., all her friends and her family can attest to this.., and there are no other guys who claim to have had sex with her.., and she feels comfortable enough telling you about this on just the 2nd date.., how do you feel?

- Same situation.., only now.., you've been on a couple of dates.., and you feel that attraction.., that connection.., and the urge to have sex.., and you both end up having sex together.., do you think anything less of her? how do you feel?

- In all honesty.., how likely are you to stop calling and tell her.., "that was great.., see you around".., and move on to someone else?

- Has the fact that the two of you had sex together in such a short time and without breaking the bank or complicating your life or relationships with other people (friends/family) somehow changed the way you feel about her as long-term girlfriend or wife material?

I don't want to assume.., and I don't want to imply that the way I feel is representative of the majority of men.., let let's see how men feel about this.., besides me and Cain (not to imply that me or Cain are right or wrong on this issue, stance, or opinion.., it's an opinion.., and by definition.., neither right.., nor wrong)

The idea however.., is an easy sell.. to both men and women.., it's like selling the idea of g-d.. (moral appeal)

To men:

If you have sex right away.., you're a sex hungry animal who can't control himself.., sex is this very unnatural thing.., a most foul urge.., a sin.., and you must suppress it.., ignore it.., it's bad.., and people who feel the urge to have sex.., are bad people.., let's label them perverts.., jerks.., nymphs.., etc..

(negative self-image --> motivation to avoid behavior or deny urge)

If you wait.., you are a good person.., with morals.., civilized.., intelligent.., and only feel this urge when it is time to have children.. (this is how I was raised btw).., (other variations include.., "only after marriage".., or "when deeply in love")..

(positive self-image --> motivation to mimic image and role-play to fall into character)

To women:

If you have sex right away.., or too soon.., he will not respect you.., and will never be in a relationship with you.., and no way in hell will he marry you.., and to add some more to that.., we may even disown you.., blah blah blah.., besides.., men only care for one thing.., all men are looking for is to manipulate you to have sex with you.., and then leave you.., hurt you.., trick you.., etc.. the sooner you have sex.., the sooner you give up any control or power.., and let's also just add to that to top it off.., if you have sex too soon.., regardless of feels and connection or anything.., you are "easy".., and a "slut".., and a "wh0re".., and a bad person who will never go to heaven and most likely end up in hell..

(negative self-image + fear --> motivation to avoid behavior or deny urge.., and view situations through a negative lens)

The more he waits.., the more he loves you and cares about you.. (feeds directly into the need to feel loved.., wanted.., desired.., adored.., that's just an easy sales pitch to make to almost any girl).., and you are also a good person.., a smart person.., and he will respect you for it.., and fall even more in love with you.., and definitely consider you as a long-term girlfriend and wife.., forget about all the other guys you've had in the past.., the longer you wait.., the less they all matter.., trust me..

(positive self-image --> motivation to mimic image and role-play to fall into character.., deny sexual urge.., pretend there's no interest.., and even think that the longer a guy waits.., is correlated to how much he cares about you)


First of all.. HAHAHAHA! or as mis would say.., ajajajajaaaajaja..

Secondly.., imagine if men were raised to think:

"it doesn't matter if you got to know each other really well and love each other.., you've only known each other for just 2 years.., you can't just ask her to marry you.., she'll respect you less if you're that "easy".., besides.., she might value you less and divorce you quickly after you get married.., you have to wait at least until the 5th year before you can start to feel ready to pop the question.., the more she waits.., the more she loves you and cares about you.., if she can't wait until you're ready.., then she just doesn't love you.., she wasn't the right person.., and you have to find someone else who does care enough about you.."

When you're done laughing.., (or crying).., just realize exactly how equally retarded of a notion that would be.., and how far from reality that would be.., Not to imply that there wouldn't be women out there who would perhaps like to wait a little longer until they get married.., or that maybe there are even some women who would actually lose respect for the guy.., and would think that 2 years is a little too soon.., who knows? But in the grand scheme of things.., this wouldn't represent the sentiment of most women..

When a guy is willing to wait.., or break the bank.., or compromise his relationships with his friends or family.., or his life.., until you both have sex.., it's not because he loves you or cares about you.., it's because he's desperate.., and those are the guys most likely to fake relationships just to keep having sex.., denying their desperation and hiding behind either religion.., socially constructed moral appeals.., or "monogamy"..



If I was dating someone.., I would respect them if they told me.., "where is this relationship going? marriage is important to me.., and i'm not pressuring you into doing something you don't want.., but i'm not getting any younger.., and I need to know if you see us going somewhere.., or if i'm just wasting my time".. Much more than if they sat there.., got angry at me.., started doing things to try and force me to take some action.., call up their mother and have her talk to me.. etc..

That's the same courtesy I give.., a man (and a woman) isn't ashamed or afraid to voice their needs or wants.., if something is important to them.. they say it.. "marriage is important to me.., sex is important to me.., a relationship is important to me.., a family is important to me.., etc".., "and i'm not going to try and pressure you to do something you don't want to do.., but I just want to be honest.., and know if you find that important to you as well.., and if not.., then maybe we're not as compatible as we thought we were"..

Beyond being disrespectful and dishonest with the other person.., you're being disrespectful and dishonest to yourself if you don't voice your thoughts and instead deny them or pretend they don't matter..

I only read the first paragraph of what is yet again another long and boring post of yours. Of all people, you're the last one that should be saying that someone else always has to be right. From what I have read of yours, you are the same damn way. You have been involved in debates where you were the only person that agreed with your side (no, there was one or two that agreed) and yet you WERE MOST CERTAINLY right. You're such a ****ing hypocrite.

[Cain]

I take that back... I skimmed your post... and I think it's hilarious that you assume that because I say people shouldn't **** on the first date if they anticipate a relationship, that I'm saying they should wait a year.

I never once gave a time frame. I just don't think either gender should be that damn easy. How hard is it to understand? My opinion isn't wrong and neither yours. They are opinions. Not factual statements.

Jesus, you make me want to murder your parents for not using a condom.

[GrkScorp]

I just don't think either gender should be that damn easy.

Then define "easy"

[shh!]

Did you actually read all that, Cain?

[GrkScorp]

I take that back... I skimmed your post... and I think it's hilarious that you assume that because I say people shouldn't **** on the first date if they anticipate a relationship, that I'm saying they should wait a year.

first date? Where did I use the words first date? And where did "I" assume you were taking about a year?

Anyway.., don't take it too personally Cain..

Like I said.., you're right.. so relax..

Next to the word "right".., it has a picture of you.., sheesh.., someone calls you right and you get all upset..

Unless it was just the picture that bothered you..

[Cain]

Did you actually read all that, Cain?

I read a few paragraphs. The first, and the couple above the pretty picture. I think he started putting pictures in his post because people had a hard time staying awake.

[lesa]

I read all of it. It was an interesting post. I like how he views things from many perspectives whether he believes in them or not. Not adding my personal beliefs on the topic, the post was very logical to me. I used to have values and viewpoints that I felt everyone should have but I no longer do, and I somewhat understand people more now.

[questiongirl]

"Because you're easy! That's why they sleep with you. They know it won't be a challenge.

By the way, when I set my standards, I hold true to them. Because of this, I don't go around sleeping with any easy trollop that opens her legs. I waited. My current girlfriend was a challenge, and she was a challenge to the first and only other guy she slept with as well. As I told you, most nice, good guys won't look at you as serious relationship material. You're a piece of ass."


Cain, I'm rapidly losing my interest in arguing with you because I have just realized that our intelligence and open-mindedness are not on the same level. From the beginning to the end, you're calling me "sleeping around." May I ask based on what you made that judgment?? Go back to my statements earlier, I used the word "date around" but never once "sleep around." Although there's no need for me to prove myself to anybody, last time I had sex with someone was one year ago...in between there were plenty plenty guys who wanted to either date or sleep with me, nothing happened! Why?? Because I didn't feel like it!! I'm freely freely to sleep with a guy that I liked, be it on first date, second date, or 100 date....it doesn't make a bit difference to a person like me, I'm just following what my heart desires...I really don't care that "most guys" wouldn't accept it because I'm not looking for "most guys." Actually, the "most guys" type of men, like you, being judmental and feeling that pretended sense of superiority, annoy me and makes me want to laugh!!

According to you, sleeping with a guy fast makes me nothing but a "piece of ass?" So, a woman's value in a man's eyes all depend on how soon she sleeps with him? How about the facts that, I have a Doctoral Degree; I can engage in intelligent conversations; I am a very humorous person; I am energetic and fun to hang out with; I am devoted to charity and community services....Do all these mean anything to them?? That's why I said I have met plenty intelligent, open-minded, nice and good guys who did not rush into judgment, and were able to see beyond the superficial things to see who I am. On the other hand, I did not disppoint them either, once I commit, I am a very loyal person, never once I've cheated on them!! So, next time before you're going to judge someone and call someone a "piece of ass," make sure you have more information about that person!!

I also believe in that even if a woman IS SLEEPING AROUND, it doesn't make her in anyway inferior to anybody! There is a reason why people do things they do, you need to learn to respect that! Nobody deserves to be called just "a piece of ass," not even the prostitutes, because everybody is more than that!!

This will be my last response to you.

[Cain]

"Because you're easy! That's why they sleep with you. They know it won't be a challenge.

By the way, when I set my standards, I hold true to them. Because of this, I don't go around sleeping with any easy trollop that opens her legs. I waited. My current girlfriend was a challenge, and she was a challenge to the first and only other guy she slept with as well. As I told you, most nice, good guys won't look at you as serious relationship material. You're a piece of ass."


Cain, I'm rapidly losing my interest in arguing with you because I have just realized that our intelligence and open-mindedness are not on the same level. From the beginning to the end, you're calling me "sleeping around." May I ask based on what you made that judgment?? Go back to my statements earlier, I used the word "date around" but never once "sleep around." Although there's no need for me to prove myself to anybody, last time I had sex with someone was one year ago...in between there were plenty plenty guys who wanted to either date or sleep with me, nothing happened! Why?? Because I didn't feel like it!! I'm freely freely to sleep with a guy that I liked, be it on first date, second date, or 100 date....it doesn't make a bit difference to a person like me, I'm just following what my heart desires...I really don't care that "most guys" wouldn't accept it because I'm not looking for "most guys." Actually, the "most guys" type of men, like you, being judmental and feeling that pretended sense of superiority, annoy me and makes me want to laugh!!

According to you, sleeping with a guy fast makes me nothing but a "piece of ass?" So, a woman's value in a man's eyes all depend on how soon she sleeps with him? How about the facts that, I have a Doctoral Degree; I can engage in intelligent conversations; I am a very humorous person; I am energetic and fun to hang out with; I am devoted to charity and community services....Do all these mean anything to them?? That's why I said I have met plenty intelligent, open-minded, nice and good guys who did not rush into judgment, and were able to see beyond the superficial things to see who I am. On the other hand, I did not disppoint them either, once I commit, I am a very loyal person, never once I've cheated on them!! So, next time before you're going to judge someone and call someone a "piece of ass," make sure you have more information about that person!!

I also believe in that even if a woman IS SLEEPING AROUND, it doesn't make her in anyway inferior to anybody! There is a reason why people do things they do, you need to learn to respect that! Nobody deserves to be called just "a piece of ass," not even the prostitutes, because everybody is more than that!!

This will be my last response to you.

So, you think that a street hooker is on the same level as you? Well, at least we both agree on something.

[Ratfish256]

Whats wrong with screwing on the first date?

Im a guy, I don't just date for sex, I like the companionship a lot more. If however sex happens on the first date I wouldn't think anything of it beyond that. Those 50 year old stereotypes of how dating is supposed to work is bullshit and calling someone a hooker for not following those lines is just plain dumb.

[Cain]

To all the idiots that are getting all bothered by my posts, GOOD! My opinions are my opinions and if you don't like them, fine. I could really give half a rat's ass what everyone else does. Questiongirl, you could f*ck the whole football team five times over and it won't bother me at all. I honestly don't care.

But the funny thing is how bothered some of you get when I state my opinions. Everyone is entitled to their own and if you don't like what I have to say, put me on ignore. I don't want you reading my shit anyways.

Just because society is becoming more f*cked up doesn't make it right. The United States is filled with people that are more and more obese as the years go by, but does that mean that it's a good choice to make? No. It's unhealthy. It's the same thing with those loose lips women. But like I said, if you want to screw on the first date, so be it. That's great. Good for you.

I'm not worried about it because I know I won't screw on the first date and I know I won't date anyone that would give it up on the first date.

[Cain]

Whats wrong with screwing on the first date?

Im a guy, I don't just date for sex, I like the companionship a lot more. If however sex happens on the first date I wouldn't think anything of it beyond that. Those 50 year old stereotypes of how dating is supposed to work is bullshit and calling someone a hooker for not following those lines is just plain dumb.

And by the way, I was calling her a hooker because I'm having fun getting a rise out of her. I stopped posting about the OP quite a few posts back, until the chick started responding to me again. I was generalizing the fact that most easy women are also the ones that have multiple partners. I'm tired of seeing women at the age of 21 having had 20+ sexual partners. That's the reason diseases are spread.

OP, I don't know how old you are, but if you're over the age of 25 and have had less than 5 - 7 sexual partners, good for you. Though I think 7 is still a little on the high end.

The reason I'm not fond of sex on the first date is because I don't think you should be having sex with someone you don't know. She could have diseases. Sure, you could use a condom, but there are NO guarantees that it would work.

Like I said in my last post, if you guys want to have sex on the first date.. fine... but my opinion is my opinion and my opinion is that it's trashy. Have some respect for yourselves and your bodies... and the health of future partners.

[IndiReloaded]

I take that back... I skimmed your post... and I think it's hilarious that you assume that because I say people shouldn't **** on the first date if they anticipate a relationship, that I'm saying they should wait a year.

I never once gave a time frame. I just don't think either gender should be that damn easy. How hard is it to understand? My opinion isn't wrong and neither yours. They are opinions. Not factual statements.

Jesus, you make me want to murder your parents for not using a condom.

LOL, Cain, GS loves a good argument & is a self-proclaimed expert on what ever subject he decides he is. If he can't outright 'win' then he devolves into all sorts of pseudopysch 'tek-neeks' that you will find juvenile at best. Go have a look back at some of my posts a few months back if you want an example.

In other words, just ignore his stupid posts like the rest of us. Its his learning curve.

[IndiReloaded]

So, you think that a street hooker is on the same level as you? Well, at least we both agree on something.

That was out of line, Cain. You don't have to agree with her lifestyle, but you shouldn't be calling names.

Quit it.

[Cain]

That was out of line, Cain. You don't have to agree with her lifestyle, but you shouldn't be calling names.

Quit it.

Read my last post. It was stated to get a rise.

I know I'm not the only person on this forum to have called someone a name.