Your paranormal experiences

[Doc Durian]

Doc,

I can't help but finding that you're being very defensive about this sometimes.

I for example stated in a previous post that I would love to have a paranormal encounter, but everytime I think I may have such experience, after closer examination, it turns out to be something that easily can be explained by natural causes.

Maybe I have a more analytical mind, maybe I simply don't let my immagination play tricks on me, maybe I am not 'openminded' enough (eventhough I believe that I am very openminded), maybe I have the guts to actualy check out what is going on, maybe, maybe, maybe and maybe. I don't know the answer to that.

The bottom line of all this is: there is not one single shred of (f)actual and reproducable proof that such phenomena exist but in a persons mind. When proof is requested, the answer is always (without exception): personal experience.

Therefore, I have no choice as to conclude that paranormal phenomena only exit in a persons mind and it is my opinion that certain people experience this as real, just like sometimes people can't make the difference between dreams and reality.

To me, this explanation is satisfactory.

All the rest, is open for debate and argumentation.

Defensive because some people feel the need to cast scorn on my experiences by using subtle nuances of prose when it's apparent that most have come to the realization that we're going to differ no matter what and let it be? ...or defensive because I can't stand opportunistic shit stirrers the opportunity to ply their malicious trade on a subject matter begun and heartily held in earnest?

If you want to fight, bring it.

But don't bother with the transparent offerings you've produced thus far.

Start another thread, call me every name in the book, even go one further and dissect me in any manner or like which supports your cause...but don't... don't ever think I'll not take you to task for you or another's crap flinging upon my character when aforementioned character only sought to discuss with others their experiences.

I was prepared and happy to let bygones be bygones after Lovejoy's comments... they made logical sense...

Your, and others' persuit after the fact, don't... which leads me to believe that you're in it for the sport... and in the sport, let me remind you, nothing is sacred.

Consider

[IndiReloaded]

Doc, its all good. Sorry if you found my teasing and analysis over the top. I can't control others, but I'll stop commenting on your thread after this. Its all been said already anyway, on both sides. I don't think further argument will be productive. I might as well post my 'dead horse' pic if things carry on.

[Doc Durian]

Doc, its all good. Sorry if you found my teasing and analysis over the top. I can't control others, but I'll stop commenting on your thread after this. Its all been said already anyway, on both sides. I don't think further argument will be productive. I might as well post my 'dead horse' pic if things carry on.

The fact that you can say this^ is enough for me to want your continued input into the thread. We did our little dance, did our thing, and we came out on top... with what I believe to be a respect for one another, despite our differences.


What I commented on was none other than the fact that when Lovejoy made such a bold yet well balanced statement, and we've publically agreed to let bygones be bygones, others have seen the window to cast further angst into the mix.

As someone who knows how much of a cunt of person they can be at times, I respect what Lovejoy said.

We don't have to agree, but my journey of asking others about their experiences shouldn't have to be met with such disagreeance when the cut-off line is so apparent.

Ok, they don't have to agree with me...even respect me...but on a message board forum... they could at least be silent long enough for like-minded others to chime in with their experiences.

Thank you for being you. You're a gem.

[tooxshort]

Group hug?

[Rollerderby]

I have a weird experience.

The other day, I was sitting in my living room, and noticed my dog looking at something. I couldn't figure out what it was, but he was looking up as if into someone's face. Then this smell of incense hit my nose. Even though there was none in the house.

[bluesummer]

Alright, please explain this one (of many) of my experiences to me then. I would love a 'logical' explanation because to this day it frightens the living shit out of me:

I was 20, and my bf and I were visiting his parents in the Dominican Republic (they lived there). My bf had a six year old sister who constantly complained of a large "black man" who stood in her doorway and stared at her (I think she just meant dark shape). Okay, so at this point we could imagine she's making it up, sure. One night we were sitting down for dinner and her mom called her to come to the table. She didn't come. She called her again. She didn't come. My bf and I were going to go down the hallway to get her, and she was standing in the middle of the hallway with tears running down her face. My bf said "Michelle, are you okay? It's time for dinner. Come on." She said "I can't." My bf said "What do you mean you can't?" She said "The big man won't let me." Okay, so we thought she was being silly and making excuses so she didn't have to go eat dinner. By this time my bf's mom had shown up and heard what she said. She went over to his little sister and said "Stop being ridiculous honey, and let's go eat dinner please." She grabbed her by the hand and went to pull her towards the dining area but she didn't move. It was like she was stuck in place. His sister started to cry harder "He won't let me go!!" and his mom grabbed her by both hands and tried to pull her forward but it was like something had her about the waist......her torso was pulled forward but it looked like she was held back at the waist. His mom was terrified, everyone was screaming and crying, it looked like his mom was going to rip his little sister's arms off from straining to pull her away. Finally his mom screamed "LET GO OF MY DAUGHTER!!!" and she was released, his mom fell backwards onto her ass and his little sister went flying onto mom.

We left the house immediately, and his mom insisted we go to the local church (they were Catholic). We checked into a hotel, and the next morning she brought the priest over to 'bless' the house. I guess that made them feel better, but I was beside myself with fright for the rest of the trip.

So......explanation? It would be an excellent prank, especially for a six year old.

[IndiReloaded]

Edit: Blue, check the other section for my reply.

[Mish]

So......explanation? It would be an excellent prank, especially for a six year old.

In the last semester in our IS class we did a panic model. It's a semi statistical model which describes the pattern of panic, it's initiation and how quickly it can spread before it stabilizes. When there is an emotional reaction our senses are heightened as we prepare ourselves for a fight or flight response. We scout our surroundings for warning signs, any type of movement in the distance or through peripheral vision becomes suspect (as you may know the movement seen through peripheral vision may not be a movement at all). Heightened responses of others elevates our own response and our response in return continues to elevate response of others. In that situation anything is possible.

I've seen people clear out the room in the matter of mili-seconds when in panic mode (when someone said there is a fire, an earthquake or a ghost). Then there are people feeding the rumour saying they might have seen or heard something that wasn't there, that they saw sparks or smelt the smoke and then change their story once it became clear that really there was no fire and it was a false alarm.

In the little girl's case, she might have been stuck on something (not necessarily a ghost) but definitely could have been something else holding her back that wasn't in people's immediate field of vision because everyone was expecting a ghost and looking elsewhere (Kansas city shuffle from lucky number slevin). A photo in that instance might have been a good way to analyze what really happened, on second look when everyone is calm a lot more clues to what actually happened may have been revealed.

[bluesummer]

In the little girl's case, she might have been stuck on something (not necessarily a ghost) but definitely could have been something else holding her back that wasn't in people's immediate field of vision because everyone was expecting a ghost and looking elsewhere (Kansas city shuffle from lucky number slevin).

Sorry, not in the middle of a six foot wide hallway with nothing in it. I suppose she could tied herself around the waist with some fishing line to something at the end of the hallway. A doorknob perhaps?
One that was twenty feet away at the end of the hall? Even so, given the size of her mother and the force being exerted, it would've snapped.

Sorry guys, sometimes there isn't an explanation for everything. I'd gladly provide one if I knew of one. I've been trying to for nearly ten years, and I wish there was one. I really do. It would knock the fear out of me forever.

[Mish]

Sorry, not in the middle of a six foot wide hallway with nothing in it. I suppose she could tied herself around the waist with some fishing line to something at the end of the hallway. A doorknob perhaps?
One that was twenty feet away at the end of the hall? Even so, given the size of her mother and the force being exerted, it would've snapped.

Sorry guys, sometimes there isn't an explanation for everything. I'd gladly provide one if I knew of one. I've been trying to for nearly ten years, and I wish there was one. I really do. It would knock the fear out of me forever.

Maybe she was caught on a fishing line or a rope or something else without knowing it. Maybe it wasn't the waist that was caught, but the foot and it only seemed like the waist. Maybe the mother was terrified and thus wasn't pulling as hard as it seemed. We don't really have a full picture (without a photo) so it's hard to say.

Yeh maybe you are right in your fears and it was a ghost, but don't close your mind to other possibilities which could have been just as likely. Bear in mind also that people (at least ones who were around you) want to believe that they were a part of something unusual and extraordinary and are sometimes motivated to let go of some detail.

[Gribble]

Like I said, I believe you believe something happened.

However, I think if a camera had been there to witness everything you'd look back at the video and see things transpired differently from how you remember them. No offense. It's part of being human. Our minds are very deceptive. Which is why I take your personal experiences with a grain of salt.

[ecojeanne]

But isn’t everything down to someone/some people’s experience. Experiments are down to someone being there to witness it right? Results are written by people who collected information/data through their own research by being there to witness it. They write the results about their experience backed up by other experts who likely have read and experienced the same results and voila it becomes fact. Doesn’t that make a fact become a fact through people’s experience? So how can you so easily dismiss experience? Do you read a book of facts and disbelieve it because you haven’t experienced it yourself…like history for example, you weren’t there but there were enough people apparently who were that can back up what a history book writer says. So we believe it. to me your statement on not believing it just because it’s someone’s experience seems to be ironic really. You would believe something if there were enough people/experts/writers to back it up. Just because one person has experienced something you can’t fathom and you haven’t experienced doesn’t make it untrue.

[Gribble]

Well, a scientist makes many, many tests. There's a control. There are variations. His colleagues keep a close eye on him and repeat the tests themselves. If I want I can carry out the experiment myself. It's a faaaar cry from personal experience. Everything is carefully documented. The experiments can be repeated for witnesses.

Doc can't take me to the place where he was attacked by spirits. He can't repeat that experience for me. Nobody was around to document it. He doesn't have camera footage. He hasn't recorded everything in painstaking detail. All I have is his word. That isn't good enough.

[ecojeanne]

yes it is harder to believe coz the experience is likely never to repeat itself under a controlled environment, but like i said it doesn't make the experience untrue. it's ignorant to say otherwise. afterall the world is round not flat.

[Gribble]

Here's the deal. Nothing like that has ever happened in a controlled environment. No one has ever been able to prove anything related to the paranormal.

In a way you're right, though. Anything is possible. I could shit a unicorn out of my ass. In the meantime I'll just go about my life as though that won't be happening. And in the meantime until something like Doc's experience is documented by a creditable source I'll assume people with similar claims are either deranged or lying.