Well, she doesn't want to get "serious"

[Ricky]

Well, since my last post in "Am I overstepping my bounds?" a good bit has happened, but I'm afraid I'm at a point where little progress can be made. Read on if you'd like, this is somewhat lengthy.

Just to sum up past events in a nutshell, I met a girl about 6 or 7 months ago and fell in love with her. She's cute, she's sweet, I like being with her, and I care about her very much. I was fine hanging out with her and really thought it was going somwhere... I thought a relationship between us was inevitable. I should of told her how I felt, because she soon got a boyfriend. (Perhaps I would of told her my feelings, but it is damn near impossible to have a private conversation at our dorm). Spending half a year obsessing over her has been quite stressful and painful.

Well, some new developments have emerged. First, she exitedley tells me that she and her boyfriend are getting engaged (funny thing is before that I had a dream where she told me she was getting married - No, I don't believe in prophetic dreams, but it is a neat coincidence). They said, however, that they would not get married until they graduated from college. I figured that in the course of three years they were bound to break up, and I was right.

She just broke up with her boyfriend last week. For a couple days after, she was very depressed. She didn't want to hurt the guy. To make things worse, he keeps calling her, showing up at her door or at her classes as she's leaving, or drives by her building. Other stresses in her life (college and deciding where she wants to take her life) are adding to her stress. She talks about some of it with me, but mainly she talks to another guy on our hall (who she says she's not gonna date... he's just a guy who she needs to talk about these things - a role that I initially thought was mine).

"This is it!" I thought. "This is my second chance!" She most definitely needed time, I figured, but we only had over a week left of school before summer vacation, and after that I may not have much contact with her. All I have is her AIM screen name, but I don't know is she's on IM that much (looks like I better get her number before I go).

I needed to tell her my feelings, but I could never get a chance to talk to her in privacy. So I sent her an e-mail. I didn't gush too much. I only spent two lines expressing my attraction to her: "I'm gonna say it straight: I like you a lot. I'm crazy about you." I went on to apoligize for not giving her time, and explained that I feared the opportunity to tell her would vanish. I told her that I was willing to give her time, and I asked that she respond and be completely honest, and not be afraid to hurt my feelings.

You see, I'm not the only guy who likes her. There are at least three others (all of whom I know) who are mad about her as well. She has voiced on several occasions how it frustrated her that everyone is falling in love with her. "I'm not that likeable!" she would say.

I checked my e-mail probably a thousand times a day for a response and never got one.

Two days later we walked down to the dining hall to eat supper. We were alone on the walk and I seriously thought about telling her there but couldn't find an opening (and was too damn scared). After supper, we were walking back up, and in tow was competition: one of the guys who likes her who happened to be at the dining hall. He walked halfway up with us and talked, then went his own way. As she and I walked further along the sidewalk, she again commented on how so many people like her. That was my cue. "Well," I said, "I like you too." It was an incredible feeling just to finally let that out. I felt as if my chest cavity had filled up with helium and I would float away.

"I know," she replied. She explained that she had read the e-mail. I asked why she didn't respond, and she said she didn't want to respond to any such messages from anybody right now. She said that right after she read the e-mail that she ran to her "talking to" guy. "I'm sorry" I said. "I know" she replied. It was, as she was pointing out, in the e-mail.

Here's the thing: right now she doesn't want to be in any serious relationships. She does not want a boyfriend. "I'm sick of this girlfriend shit" she had said. She just wants to "hang out" with people.

So here I am at a standstill. I'm not going to give up on her, no way. Maybe after the summer she'll want a relationship. I just have to worry about my competition. I definitely need to keep in contact with her over the summer. It's going to be agonizing if I don't. I have three days left to see her, and that's it.

Her birthday is coming up, and I intend to get her a gift. She actually already knows I'm getting it, as it is something a friend of hers was supposed to buy her but never got around to, so I promised her I'd get it for her. Perhaps I'll even go an extra mile to exceed her expectations and get something to go along with that gift. I'd get flowers (I do know what her favorite flower is) but that might be overkill.

Anyway thanks for reading this far (for those of you that have). Comments would be nice.

[Ricky]

Okay, so I got her cell phone number last night, now I'll be able to talk to her at least. Truth is, I'm not a great conversationist on the phone; I fall into a lot of long pauses. I guess I better think of a lot of things to say.

One question: How often would you all suggest I call her? I was thinking once a week, but that may be too much, so then I thought maybe only a couple tmes a month. I don't want to pester or annoy her, but I really want to hear her voice throughout thte summer. Thoughts?

[jane]

call her once... then let her call you the next time.. get ready to be patient .. she needs some time.. LEt her come to you!

[PandaCivic]

call her once... then let her call you the next time.. get ready to be patient .. she needs some time.. LEt her come to you!

sometimes letting the girl come to you is close to impossible. just call her to say hi and depending on what you guys talk about, you will know when the next time be when you or she, calls. it's a tough world but having a conversation shouldn't be one of them. just ask her how things are and what she says will be what you say to her next. feed off what she tells you. for some reason girls crave attention? unless i was wrong this whole time.

[Ricky]

call her once... then let her call you the next time.. get ready to be patient .. she needs some time.. LEt her come to you!

Only problem is that she doesn't have my phone number. I'll give it to her the first time I call her, which will probably be on her birthday. My only worry is that she might not call me... that's gonna be in the back in my mind. In fact, I'm wondering if I may just be bothering her doing all this. I'm gonna try it anyway. If she doesn't call back in, say, a month or so, I'll call her again (or would you reccomend waiting longer?)

just ask her how things are and what she says will be what you say to her next. feed off what she tells you. for some reason girls crave attention? unless i was wrong this whole time.

That's how I usually talk to her, it's centered around her. I'll probably just ask her what's new and what's happening with her. I know she's going to be missing a lot of her college buddies. I want to tell her that I miss her, maybe even say I love her (and do I!), but I should probably wait for that...

[Bonovox40]

I've done this with someone else and fell into the "friends zone" way too easily. She was distraught over ex-fiance, I was there to comfort and be "a friend" and before I knew it, that's all I was.

The thing is right now she has BAGGAGE. Not that we all don't in some way, but you don't need that. She needs to cope with what's going on. If you want to be with her romantically, STOP being so much a friend. Limit your conversations and time, but when you DO spend time together, make them the best for both of you. Fun and exciting stuff. Don't do the "let's just sit and talk about the crap i'm feeling today while I pick at a sandwich" stuff. Get her out and having FUN with YOU!

I know you have feelings for her, I know you WANT to express that and that you care about her. But DECIDE what you want out of this. Friends?....or something more?
You know that guy she runs to fun "talking too?" Perhaps you need to be like him more. I bet that he doesn't call her often. Or even makes an attempt to just chill with her like you do. My gf had a guy like that before she met me. Loved the guy and they ended up sleeping together while she fell in love with him and he decided he just liked her as friends w/benefits. I'm not saying that's happening or going to happen.
If you want her as more than a friend, you have to be there as something besides a friend. SERIOUSLY. She's giving you that "I can't stand this dating shit" and yes, she does feel that way. She's going to NEED to feel that or she won't feel like she's learned and is growing from the pain of the past. What good would being hurt be if we didn't learn something or be stronger because of it? Exactly. She needs to work this out of her system to turn the hurt into something of VALUE, even though she never wanted to be hurt.

So let her know your intentions (and I know you kinda did) but tell her straight off the bat something like "You know I want to date you but if you're not ready then that's cool. Maybe when you feel like dating, I MIGHT be available but you know how things go."
Don't say it in a jerky way but just matter of fact. Let her know that you're interested in dating her, not DEVELOPING your friendship further because that's how it sounds like it's going. How are you going to feel when you're the friend she's running to saying "Oh, I met this guy in class. He's so nice and I get flutters in my stomach just thinking about him." It's going to suck!

As for the love thing. DON'T SAY IT! She's not ready for that. Especially not right now! She doesn't want to feel more responsibility for someone else's feelings. Don't be selfish and throw that on the weight she's already dealing with. I know love is different for everyone, but you should be in love with her for love that she's giving you. Is she giving you love that you feel for her? Are you sure you're not just infatuated with her just a little. Take a look from the outside at the inside self and look at what you see.
As for her birthday, just tell her happy birthday. Don't go get her something or go out of your way to do something special. Women want to KNOW that you are a catch. If you fall all over her to win her heart, there is no CHALLENGE in winning you.

Even now with the crap she's feeling from her ex-fiance, she WANTS to find someone worthy. She WANTS to find someguy who she feels lifted and makes her heart sing. Why would she not want that? Simply said is that she really would ACCEPT a bf if she FELT those positive feelings from him that make her feel ALIVE!

I know it's hard man, I know! There's some things you've done wrong (told her your nuts for her/already gotten s foothold in the "friends" department. BUT it is possible to make this change if you change your attitude and behavior around her. Be yourself of course, but don't fall over her heels, don't let her take you for granted because she WILL and she will JUSTIFY it with reasons that you're there for her and her FRIEND and that's what FRIENDS do! If you keep this up she WILL see you as a platonic-gay friend. (of course you're not gay but i'm saying that it will be almost irreversible in that condition to EVER be romantically involved with her!)

Thing is, right now she's down in the dumps over this last jerk. She knows you're there for her and you need to let her APPRECIATE your existance! No flowers, no "special gifts". You already said

Her birthday is coming up, and I intend to get her a gift. She actually already knows I'm getting it, as it is something a friend of hers was supposed to buy her but never got around to, so I promised her I'd get it for her. Perhaps I'll even go an extra mile to exceed her expectations and get something to go along with that gift. I'd get flowers (I do know what her favorite flower is) but that might be overkill.

YES, it's overkill. you are doing something her FRIEND was supposed to do for her therefore filling in the blank for her friend by BEING the friend. Don't do it!

You want her to see you as a fun guy to be with, who's time and company is precious and who is a catch. If she has reserved time for you on her bday, then do something super fun. What does she really love? Go do something that fits but make it YOUR own idea! Don't spend a ton to recreate a fantasy of hers, make it unique from you that says "Hey, you spend time with me, you'll always be smiling and having fun!"

Leave her that day remembering the good times you had together and thinking "Gee, Ricky is really fun to hang around. I wonder what he's doing later?"
And then, (here comes the hard part for you with the way you feel now) become more or less, unavailable. Tell her you're busy with your own things. Don't give her the "i don't feel like it." she has to FEEL that you really do have things to do and a life besides her. Better yet, go on a date with someone or break plans with her to make a date with someone. "I think I have a date tomorrow, but i'll have to double check with her. I'll let you know if i'm free though. But we should definatly hang out again soon! It was a blast last time we went out!"

Let her know that it's good times with you but that she has to WIN your time and energy.

Yes, everyone I know this sounds like mind games but I do not condone that! (other than relationships on a whole being a continuing game of "give and take, push and pull" because it really is a game! We're always trying to "win" that balance between 2 people)

What this will do for you is show you what her true intentions are. REMEMBER women can SAY and DO different things without feeling torn or that their being hypocrites if the 2 don't match. "well, of course I love you ricky. You're so sweet." (as she the runs into the arms of another man)


DON'T call her. Let her call you. But when she does call you, LISTEN LISTEN LISTEN. Women really just want us to listen. They don't want us to tell them what to do or really even what we think UNLESS, they ask for it. ;-)
Ask her about what's been going on, things she working on but try and stick to just GOOD/POSITIVE things. Keep the conversations down to 10 minutes or less. SERIOUSLY. It's good if she rambles on about how much school sucks, or that her gf's are being mean or whatever. It's good if she knows she can talk to you about anything, but DON'T let her just use you as an outlet. You have things to do and people to see besides her. Unless she's just bawling her eyes out over something serious, YOU end the conversation but politely. "Hey, I have to get to class/homework/date/etc, but i'm glad we could talk about problem/issue and I hope things work out for you. Have a great day and i'll talk to you later."

Unless you're making plans or you're talking about what a great night you had with Jane Doe out clubbing, break the convo first and end on a POSITIVE note. If you can get her to laugh before you hang up, you've already won this round. :-)

Men don't get this but this is VERY VERY POWERFUL to do. I've experimented with this and it DOES WORK! You do it right and she will be calling you sooner then you think and she might not even understand why she feels like calling you.

Go on a couple "dates" and make sure it's something fun and entertaining. Be that guy that nobody else is with her. Make sure you "infer" that they are dates. Don't get doing the friends chit chat, talk about relationship things even if she acts like she doesn't want to. Oh, and NEVER NEVER agree with things she says when you don't. EVEN IF you think it would make her feel better. If anything, find something simple to disagree on and voice your opinion. "What do you see in "The Bachelor"? It's a silly show where women fight over each other to win some guy that half the time comes out to be an asshole." Let her know you have your own views that you won't change because she feels differently.

After a few "dates", let her know that you want to start dating her. If she brushes you off, do the same. Let her KNOW that you're not going to subsutitute the fun times you give her w/romantic intentions in exchange for "friendship". You don't want that, don't settle for it. You're the prize to be won here.

No matter what, even if my advice works for you and you 2 hook up, she needs to give you the love that you want to give. If that's not there, she's basically just a job. You working to get something in return. If you don't work, it never gives on it's own.
You need someone to SELFESSLY give of themselves to make you happy. That is what true love is really about. It's a good feeling when you feel that for the first time from someone who loves you.

Good luck Ricky. If you like my advice, then i'm glad. If you hate what I say, then i'm glad you took the time to read it and post about your experiences. At least you're living in the pursuit of love as we all should.

[Ricky]

Thank you very much for the long and in-depth response. I am going to keep some of your advice in mind.

One thing: hanging out with her and having fun is currently out of the question, because college is over, she lives far from me, and I am not going to be seeing her for the entire summer. That is why I am so concerned with talking with her on the phone - it'll be my only way to talk with her this summer.

Anyway, I still plan on getting her the birthday gift she expected, and a little somthing extra as well, so she will still be surprised (nothing "special" or "hint-hint" or anything like that), and a card. I'll call her on her birthday to wish her a happy...birthday (repetitive sentence there... ), and I'll ask her how things are going and just talk about her for a while. After that I'll just sit and wait to see if she calls me next, and hopefully things will get moving.

As for being "unavailable," I guess not seeing her for the whole summer would count. Additionally, a month ago another girl I know asked me if I'd like to go to the college ball with her next semester, and of course I said yes.

Anyway, I hope all this works out. I'll keep everyone updated.

[Ricky]

Okay, I've been thinking about the advice and some more questions popped up into my head. I'm sorry, but could these be anwered? (I appreciate it)

So let her know your intentions (and I know you kinda did) but tell her straight off the bat something like "You know I want to date you but if you're not ready then that's cool. Maybe when you feel like dating, I MIGHT be available but you know how things go."...

...DON'T call her. Let her call you. But when she does call you, LISTEN LISTEN LISTEN. Women really just want us to listen. They don't want us to tell them what to do or really even what we think UNLESS, they ask for it. ;-)

How exactly should I lead into telling her that I plan on going out with her in the future if our phone conversations are going to be centered around her?

I guess I may already have taken care of that in the e-mail. Here's what I wrote, regarding that: "I understand you’re hurting right now and I’m willing to give you time." I guess that said it, but if I'm to talk about it to her, what is the best way to lead in?

One thing you said did kind of interest me:

There's some things you've done wrong (told her your nuts for her...

I guess I don't understand why I shouldn't have done that. My logic behind it was I had to tell her while I had that chance so she would know, because she would be away from me for the summer and I didn't want her falling for another guy. I felt I blew it when I failed the first time and she hooked up with somebody, and when she broke up with him it was like a second chance for me.

I'm thinking about this girl almost all the time and it drives me nuts. What dries me nuts even more is that I really don't know her true feelings for me. Does she like me or not? She talks to me, makes contact with me and I interpret that as an attraction towards me. Other times it doesn't seem that way. She doesn't want to date with anybody now, but she hasn't really said whether or not she would want to be with me in the future. I can't stand the uncertainty.

[moonshadow1234]

I have been in the same position as that girl. Not trying meant to me that I just did not feel enough or that there were things I did not like enough. I too was sick of relationships and wanted to hang out and be free. But if the right guy was in front of me, I would not have missed the chance. I hope it is different with your girl

[GoldenNickel22]

Well...After reading this, I get the feeling that she doesn't like you romantically but she is also trying to spare your feelings. It is OK to pursue her, but even right now you are still not her "talking guy". Let me tell you, the "talking to" guy stands better chances, becase she opens up to him - for whatever reasons, she doesn't even consider you as her "friend choice". You are more like her fan, someone who is beneath her. At the same time she is a nice person and she doesn't want to hurt you. Let me tell you something, women like men who don't like them. ESPECIALLY if everybody else loves them. It would puzzle her. I think you should move on...it might be that she's not physically attracted to you (we all have our "types"), or maybe she thinks you are too "nice". WHile you can get her birthday present and whatnot, I think you should treat her as a friend, and move on. Treat her as a "talk to" person - talk to her about your other relationship. Perhaps she'll level with you - women love to be an emotional shoulder. For some reason we just love to console. You can always "laugh it off" and call it a school crush which is long over - in regards to email you sent. Women have crushes all the time, she will understand and not threatened by you anymore. Then perhaps things will shift. You need her to see you in a different light - for now, you are stuck.