In Praise of Traditional Women

[IndiReloaded]

I'm not sure what that even means anymore. I think I'm pretty traditional. At least my values regarding marriage and commitment seem to fit that description.

But in addition to my family obligations, I work. Its pretty easy nowadays to manage both, especially once kids are older & in school.

[Mish]

I guess there is a variance in interpretation. To me a traditional woman is the one who hasn't been corrupted by the modern culture of the west, who's idea of fun is not getting "smashed" on the weekend and then wallow in self pity about the fixable problems she inflicts onto herself. A woman who was brought up in a good family who has the ability to understand and empathize with other people and be interdependent with others, who doesn't believe independence alone is the only virtue. So like I mentioned before my understanding of traditional woman has nothing to do with who stays at home looking after the kids and more with the actual character and personality type.

[bluesummer]

It comes across as you dividing them into traditonal VS non-traditional.

It's not that black and white, is all I'm saying, despite your personal experiences. I think 'traditional' women drag the progressive ones down, at least in the sense it sets unrealistic expectations for some men.

[Mish]

Blue, I think we are talking about two completely different things. You are talking about the difference between the modern woman and a slave woman from 500 years ago. I'm not talking about a woman from 500 years back, but about a personality type and valuable qualities women always traditionally had. Had, but a quite a few seemed to have lost in the west (from my experience) due to a weird devolution and role confusion. I don't doubt there is a big number of women in the west who haven't been corrupted and I don't doubt you are one of them, but unfortunately they pale in comparison to the vastness of the devolved ones I've sampled.

[IndiReloaded]

Sounds to me, Mish you want what used to be called a 'virtuous' woman. One having a well-defined set of moral standards which she lives by. Not so much traditional (in the sense of a stay-at-homemaker). If she is happy working & having a family then great. If she is happy staying home and looking after hubby & kids, great. So long as she is content doing either. Yes?

The only mindset I think you wouldn't appreciate is a totally driven career woman, as she wouldn't share your desire for a family.

But any of those women could be virtuous, or not.

My two cents.

[bluesummer]

Is what Indi said what you mean, then Mish?

Are you confusing the term 'traditional' wih something else. Traditional means what I've been referencing it as. If you mean something else, maybe use a different term, because you're confusing me.

I'm still not convinced that these traits that you atribute to non-western women are all that desirable. Virtue, okay. Morals, okay. Bt if you're talking about also being constantly pleasant, passive, and eager to please, I think you're now talking about something unrealistic and NOT natural. These traits in non-western women are not NATURAL. They are taught this is the way to behave, even if it's against their nature. I KNOW, I was married into a foreign culutre, and got quite the eye-opener into the lives of these women. All I'm saying is that all these desirable traits that you think are natural to a non-western woman aren't as natural as you think. They come here and realize they don't live by the rules of their old society and they change a lot over time. They become themselves.

If I'm off-base, please clarify.

[IndiReloaded]

These traits in non-western women are not NATURAL. They are taught this is the way to behave, even if it's against their nature. I KNOW, I was married into a foreign culutre, and got quite the eye-opener into the lives of these women.

Yep. I know married women who are native Filipino, Japanese, Chinese, and Bangladeshi. All of them are taught to be meek and submissive UNTIL they are married. Then shit hits the you-know-what, from the husband's perspective.

Still, at least they are smart and have enough self-control to keep a lid on it until they are married. Unlike many western women, they've got some priorities in this regard.

[bluesummer]

That's EXACTLY it, Indi. They look like the perfect wife until you actually marry them.

I'd rather just be up front about what I am before hand. That way, if he can handle me before we get married, we should know it's going to be just fine afterwards.

[Mish]

Sounds to me, Mish you want what used to be called a 'virtuous' woman. One having a well-defined set of moral standards which she lives by. Not so much traditional (in the sense of a stay-at-homemaker). If she is happy working & having a family then great. If she is happy staying home and looking after hubby & kids, great. So long as she is content doing either. Yes?

Yeh, I think you are right Indi. Maybe that's a better description. I think that I find more 'virtuous' women coming from traditional cultures than from western ones. Maybe there is a correlation between being traditional and virtuous?

Comparing the two types of women I've dated I found that western women were:

- More selfish
- More defensive
- Had greater lack of foresight of consequences of their actions
- Had greater lack of empathy, understanding and good interpersonal skills
- Had a greater knack at "finding enemies"
- Were more likely to be confused and uncertain about their role as a woman (e.g. my ex used to ask me to explain to her what's so good about being one)
- Had a weird inability to cope in the world
- Were more likely to play a victim and blame the world around them for their misfortunes
- Were more confused about what they want (or what they should want)

I don't know how to classify this behavior so I just lump in to "western". But having dated 'virtuous' women who weren't western and who didn't have all of the above baggage was a great relief.

[CocoChanel]

- More selfish
- More defensive
- Had greater lack of foresight of consequences of their actions
- Had greater lack of empathy, understanding and good interpersonal skills
- Had a greater knack at "finding enemies"
- Were more likely to be confused and uncertain about their role as a woman (e.g. my ex used to ask me to explain to her what's so good about being one)
- Had a weird inability to cope in the world
- Were more likely to play a victim and blame the world around them for their misfortunes
- Were more confused about what they want (or what they should want)

Some of the things you listed, I have some of those flaws. :x

[Mish]

Some of the things you listed, I have some of those flaws. :x

Aww, that means we can never be

Once one had tasted "traditional" one can't go back


I still love you though <3

[CocoChanel]

The Shining Knight Sydrome could become your diagnosis if you chose to enter into a relationship with a woman who has some baggage; I get that. But...
I just think it's bad that women that have those flaws are judged and put into such an aweful category. You once said... to think about what makes a person the way they are. Sometimes (in my case) it's something from the past that they can't seem to get over.

Btw... I still love you too.

[Mish]

Alright, you are an exception to the rule due to valid circumstances, so I take it back

[CocoChanel]

Yayyyyyyyy!

[bluesummer]

If I were you Mish, I would be careful of your preconceptions. You'll fall for some chick that you think is this virtuous wonder woman, then you'll marry her and she'll turn out to be a whole lot of what you thought she wasn't.

Don't say I didn't warn you.