The Racism Thread

[jane]

tooxshort.. are you making fun of me? Not that I think you are but its really hard to know what people really think when they right stuff like that.. .. just curious.

[nomas]

You know, I really wish we would have gotten a response from someone who felt really passionately about this. Not to say that all who responded were passive, but I was looking for an angry minority to testify that they had personally been discriminated against or unfairly stereotyped time and time again and wanted to tell it like it is for them, but only Eric was close to that. This also leads me to think that this may say something about the people of this forum. NO, not something bad, just making an observation that, though we're diverse, there must be something common to all of us that we don't have representatives of thes very people I was trying to get a response from. I would say that contributing to this could be some level of education, at least to feel confident enough to write down your thoughts on threads for many to read, and/or easily accessible internet access...maybe at home, which may indicative of educated parents...and of course, as all things are related somehow, education may be directly proportional to affluence...directly proportional to discrimination..

I don't know, just random thoughts now, I guess.

Freddie

[jane]

Nomas,
I was discriminated against .. and that is exaclty what I was saying.. just because I am a "white" girl .. in a Hispanic neighborhood. See, thats the thing of it. I guess becuase I am white ... there is NO possiable way that I could be discriminated against, right? Thats bullshit.

Do you know how hard it was for me to find a job here? Im a Trained Chef. I have three degrees, 15 years experience and it was still hard. Wanna know why?

I AM A WHITE GIRL LIVING IN A HISPANIC NEIGHBORHOOD. Im not yelling .. Im just making a point. I have nothing against anyone and frankly, Mexicans are nicer then some of the "white" americans that live here. But damn.. cant a girl get a break?

[nomas]

Sorry, Jane, maybe you were that angry person I was hoping for..but I was focused on a minority to have strong opinions on this because that is the "issue" that is being reported on more in the media, you know, and my stance was to ague against it being a major issue among minorities, while still believing that it is not completely dead.

But you bring up something I have a comment about. In the same way that you feel the sting because you are "A WHITE GIRL LIVING IN A HISPANIC NEIGHBORHOOD" is the same way some minorities feel the sting of being "A MINORITY LIVING IN A WHITE COUNTRY". The scale is different but the premise is the same. I believe that you have it unfairly hard to be the odd one out and some people are not receptive to that, just as I believe that many minorities feel the same way about how some whites, or even some other minorities, see them anywhere but in their own neighborhoods of peers.

My argument is that, really, you have control over not being discriminated against because of race...you can move to a white neighborhood which there are plenty of. Just like a hispanic can move out of a neighborhood of KKK-ridden white neighborhoods. My resolution would be to pack up and move from there to some other spot in the city where they are more receptive..if I so desired..or stay and fight it...you weigh in your own options and make a decision, but I wouldn't resort to complaining and whining.

But then there's the very valid argument that it shouldn't have to be this way. Truly, hate is just plain wrong. Hate for ethnicity, sexual orientation, whatever, shouldn't be limiting factors to where you can live and work. And there are some people who simply cannot afford to be moving around, especially when they've got a whole family to haul around..

So thanks for opening it up some more, Jane.

What do you think of my arguments?

Freddie

[jane]

Nomas.. you are right on. I also believe that you have some very valid points about minorites in this country. The scale, as you say, is differnet. Obviously, I have no REAL idea of what being discriminated against really is, mainly because I am white. This country has bred hate. There are millions of americans that are bigots and racists, but that stems from their parents way of life.

I think as time goes on, generation through generation, views of discrimination against any monorites, (African American, Latino, Gays, Lesbains, ect.) .. will eventually evolve. When this genertation.. like "Generation X" starts to have kids in high school, I think we may all be able to shed some of the racist baggage left from our elders.

This is only my opinion, but, I sincerely hope that as time goes on.. our minds grow and open to change not narrow.

And your welcome Nomas. I hope I didnt come off like a bitch. I am just merely pointing out that sometimes you dont need to be a minority to feel the pressure of racism.

[nomas]

Not at all, Jane. You know it's all good. I don't take offense nor am I quick to judge someone negatively, especially when I know so little about them. Your contributions are more than welcome..it's what we're looking for. Speak your mind any time, I may argue with or against you, but no hard feelings, just healthy discussion.

Nice.
Freddie

[jane]

Im glad to hear that Nomas.

[moeburn]

Eh, isn't racism natural? I mean, you take a Persian cat and try to make it get along with a Tabby, they'll probably hate each other. Territoriality is natural, species are designed to reject foreign species to prevent domination.

I guess thats just my outlook on life, everything happens because nature said so

[jane]

what?? How can you compare racism with cats??? If the persain and tabby hate each other its not because the Persain or the Tabby are burning crosses on each others lawns or calling the other one the "N" word. Foreign species is an intersting concept, and I think I kinda understand where you are coming from .. but what you say would be a rascist argurment.. dont ya think?

Im sure thats what Hitler was thinking...

[moeburn]

Well, i guess it helps that i've never experienced racism directly (I'm irish, throw all you can at me, maybe it'll help), but I just feel that it's all supposed to happen. To an extent, that is. There's nothing wrong with disliking someone because of their race, as long as you can tolerate it. You shouldn't have to accept any beleif or race, simply tolerate it.

[jane]

Accepting a race? Hold on...

First of all, its not "accepting" .. there is nothing to accept. THEY LIVE HERE and are one of us.. completely.. just because they practice a differnet religion or they are a different color doesnt mean we are different. And when you say that "there is nothing wrong with disliking someone because of their race" .. you sound like a a racist. THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG WITH THAT.

There is something wrong with people who think they are better.. whether you are Irish, German, Scottish or even Italian like me. ONE EARTH right?

[moeburn]

Accepting a race? Hold on...

First of all, its not "accepting" .. there is nothing to accept. THEY LIVE HERE and are one of us.. completely.. just because they practice a differnet religion or they are a different color doesnt mean we are different. And when you say that "there is nothing wrong with disliking someone because of their race" .. you sound like a a racist. THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG WITH THAT.

There is something wrong with people who think they are better.. whether you are Irish, German, Scottish or even Italian like me. ONE EARTH right?

Well, until i get affected by it, i guess i haven't learned my lesson yet.

[jane]

Do you really feel that in order for you to have a reaction to racism.. you need to be affected by it?

[moeburn]

Do you really feel that in order for you to have a reaction to racism.. you need to be affected by it?

Apparently, I do. I am heartbroken by the stories of rape, murder, or violence based on race. No, people shouldn't be burning crosses. No, people shouldn't be using verbal violence. But yes, it is a fact of life, that people will dislike other people based on a general look that they fit into.

You see a bunch of kids, walking down a back alleyway, low baggy pants, looking like they have nothing to do but harrass you. Wouldn't you start getting bad ideas about them? Its the same way with racism, its human nature to place people into a group based on their appearance.

[nomas]

Moeburn,

I think you've got some basis in the point you're trying to say, but you're really fumbling the words and it's coming out like a sick and twisted analysis.

The way I would rephrase it is: it is in the nature of people to be afraid of change and of what is different, in short, what we don't understand. Different races have different cultures and do things in very different ways. There has been many wars among men of different cultures or races...way more than there has been civil war among like peoples....but they way you say it, you make it sound like this is all okay and dandy. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and say you were just saying that it has an explanation, but not that this behavior is just fine and to be expected and accepted.

I'm not ready to label you a racist...just a poor communicator in this instance. You said something I agree with: tolerance.

Yes, I agree with you there. I can tolerate anyone doing anything as long as they don't hurt or offend others. So while an individual can maybe tolerate that people like the hip-hop music and their styles with the baggy jeans, what not, you are not forced to like it or pursue it. Okay, that's tolerance.

Take for example someone from a country where water is really scarce..so they have a tradition of not bathing often..merely due to unavailability of resources. Now they've carried on this tradition for years and one day families of this country pack up and move to the America where water is abundant and people can bathe (and do bathe) sometimes multiple times per day. Well, these new families may come in and start earning a reputation for being "stinky" and people may want to keep away...not because of race, but because now they have this reputation and while not all families practice this conservation of water practice they had before, the stereotype is formed. Now, racism comes in where you will just keep away from all people of this country without giving them a chance..some may smell just fine, but you won't give them a chance. This is where I hope we're educated and intelligent enough as a people now to recognize that you find some of everything in every race. But the counter point is, I hate when maybe you do come accross someone with a strong odor (still speaking on the example I laid out) and you really don't want to put up with the smell because you have a sensitive nose..then you shouldn't be forced to hang out with someone just out of fear that you'll be labeled racist. That's where I hate that us minorities will be quick to play the race card.

Same with Moeburn's example. The head-shaved, neck-tatooed, baggy-jeaned individual may be the nicest guy, most devoted, charitable individual, but out of preconceived notions, you may be wary to stop by a group of these gentlemen in a secluded street corner to ask for directions. You may think that your best bet is to ask the father of three with the pretty wife because your stereotype of a family like that is that they won't jump you and take your money....unless they're an Italian family, you know they're all crime families...Just kidding, Jane.

Is this a little bit what you meant, Burn?

Freddie