christians.

[MVPlaya]

To be fair, this was hardly a serious thread.

[misombra]

religion is bullshit. it's not innocent, i'm sorry. this whole, "well people can believe what they want" thing is shit. if you think that then you really haven't put much thought into it. and the whole "you americans blah blah blah" argument is stupid. keep going on with it so you can prove just what an idiot tool you are.

religion has caused mass suffering in the world. people have died suffering, been tortured, our planet has suffered all because of religion. it's not just christians, it's all the religions.

just look at all these super religious men who rape children, kidnap them and torture them and make other children with them meanwhile talking about how holier than thou they are. and then their crazy religious wives who go along with it. all these catholic priests who also rape children.

i'm irritated and frightened with people who all they can think about is how close they are to god. those people are fuked up. they are the most willing to hurt others, more than any other kind of person i've ever known.

and you bitches who just want to argue cause you don't like me, it's okay. if i were you i'd hate me too.

[Lipp]

At least buddhism had a good concept to start out with. I could totally accept and perhaps even get into people following the teachings of some guy or girl, it's just the step into divine beings and actions that stuffs it all up.

Maybe we'd have large groups being devoted to the teachings of Gandhi or something instead

[tooxshort]

Group hug.

[Gribble]

I find it extremely difficult to feel anything but contempt for a grown adult who lives in a first world country and who believes in faerie-magic and ghouls. I find it equally hard to respect anyone who clings to an ancient text filled with faerie-magic and ghouls and who insists on taking out the parts he likes and ignoring the rest.

Throw the whole damn book of nonsense out and come up with something sane if you can't live your life without someone else guiding you. Can't a book of philosophy suffice? Do we really need mythical beings and invisible kingdoms in the sky? Do we need the thousands year old advice of a brutal bunch of savages to guide us in the modern world? Please. GROW UP. Read Harry Potter if you need your fantasy fix.

Failing that, let's shift from this religion of death, decay and suffering to something a bit more interesting. Bring back the Greek gods. They'd kick the shit out of the Christian one, and at least they're interesting to read about.

[Primo]

I don't hate you misombra ! Heck if I knew you, I'd make you put this anger and energy into the bedroom and have a religious hatef*ck until we were both too sore and swollen to walk ! :-D

Now back to the point :-P I know what you're saying, believe me, but in reality religion isn't causing any of these things, mankind causes these things. Religion is just a moral shelter to hide behind while they commit these atrocities.

Kind of like the old saying, guns don't kill people, people kill people.

[Sanctuary]

Bring back the Greek gods. They'd kick the shit out of the Christian one, and at least they're interesting to read about.

Your post makes me want to go out and sacrifice a goat in the name of Zeus.

[Sanctuary]

religion is bullshit. it's not innocent, i'm sorry. this whole, "well people can believe what they want" thing is shit. if you think that then you really haven't put much thought into it...

Ok, but let's take a step back for a moment. Atrocities and Christianity aside, if no supernatural power or greater being exists, then how did the universe get created? If you cannot create matter and energy out of nowhere, where did it come from?

It's probably true that most of the religions we practice today are false but how do you know for sure that a supernatural being or force doesn't exist somewhere?

You may say there's no evidence for God but when you're in a deep relationship, how do you know for sure that the other person loves you back? Well you can't ever truly know for sure but you believe so anyway. So in the same way that you would have faith that someone loves you back in a relationship, that's the same way you can have faith in God. You just need to put your heart out there a little bit and just believe.

[misombra]

sanctuary, i am in a ltr and have been for a long time. the reason i know this person loves me is because he is with me. he cooks for me. he stands by me when i'm upset. he makes me laugh. he does a lot of tangible things that show me that he loves me. god does not do those things. gods people have caused a lot of pain in my life and the lives of others. therefore how is it possible for me to suspect that he loves me?

also, nobody knows how the universe began, or why. therefore people have to make things up like "god did it" so they don't feel so clueless and insignificant.

[Petit Papillon]

I`m polish and I`m catholic and fcuk You all cause we have the best Christmas traditions ever

[MVPlaya]

Ok, but let's take a step back for a moment. Atrocities and Christianity aside, if no supernatural power or greater being exists, then how did the universe get created? If you cannot create matter and energy out of nowhere, where did it come from?

This is a cop-out. Using God to try to answer who created the universe just externalizes the logical dilemma unto God, and then cops out by saying "well we can't understand it, its God we're talking about." which is no different from saying "well we can't understand it, the universe is too complicated."

[CocoChanel]

If they are causing pain then they are not following God's word. They are going against them. Anyone who follows His word does not act like that. There are those people in the Christian religion who don't follow His word. I see it a lot and I pray for those people.

There are many things in this world that are made for good but there is always some crooked person who takes the innocence out of it and makes it bad. There are those people in almost EVERY SITUATION AND EVERY ORGANIZATION.

[doppelgaenger]

It's not the religion that causes the atrocities, but the controversy.

There is a lot of controversy in this thread....


I have respect for anyone, regardless of their religion or beliefs. However, when they start stirring up shit, that's when they lose my respect.

[IndiReloaded]

This is a cop-out. Using God to try to answer who created the universe just externalizes the logical dilemma unto God, and then cops out by saying "well we can't understand it, its God we're talking about." which is no different from saying "well we can't understand it, the universe is too complicated."

To clarify MVPs point: There is a simple logical problem with the
"well, then who created the universe?" argument:

If God created the universe, then who created God?

Its the same question, just one more level up. Since it doesn't bring one any closer to an answer, its a pretty worthless argument.

Anyway, here is my solution to all the religious folk who come to my door:

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freethought[/url]

I actually keep a few printouts on my desk and hand them out when the JoHo and mormons stop by. I'm quite happy to convert religious folk to atheism when they knock on my door.

[misombra]

indi, yes. i'm converting into a freethinker.

i've been baptized.