My Views on Crime & Punishment

[Gribble]

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodrigo_Duterte]Rodrigo Duterte - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]

Under Duterte's leadership, Davao City experienced relative peace and stability, ushering an unprecedented economic boom. The city's crime rate dropped dramatically that tourism organizations in the city claim that Davao is "the most peaceful city in Southeast Asia".[3] Duterte, who has been dubbed "The Punisher" by Time magazine,[3] has been criticized by human rights groups and by Amnesty International for tolerating extrajudicial killings of alleged criminals allegedly by the Davao death squads.[3][4][5][6] Duterte has always denied any direct involvement in these frequent killings,[7].

I finally found an example of what I've been getting at all along. Granted I'm lifting this from a Wiki page, so keep that in mind. We have a mayor who allegedly supports vigilanteism. His city has undergone a drop in violent crime and is enjoying an economic boom. Human rights groups criticize him for this. So in other words, better to have a city overrun with criminals preying upon the innocent than a city overrun with vigilantes preying upon the guilty.

I can't shake this feeling that the people who think themselves the most moral, the most benevolent and good, are in fact among the most horrible of us all.

I just read a story about two men who drowned a 16 year old girl in a bathtub, then they cooked and ate her. Why? "We were hungry." Each got less than 20 years in prison. The victim looked so much like my sister that for one brief moment of insanity I reached for my phone to call home and see that she was safe.

What a terrible, terrible world this is. Correction: what a terrible, terrible species we are.

[dewilliams2]

Yea but its also hard to draw the line...I mean those guys should die but then you have the crazies out there who would kill people who simply threw a rock through a window or something stupid like that.

My biggest concern would be all the religious fanatics going around killing people for violating commandments or whatever. Think about how many homosexuals would be targeted if that was acceptable behavior.

I love me some Batman...but I think the vast majority of the population is far to ignorant to be put in a position to be judge and executioner.

[Junket]

Let Gribble lead the Avengers, I will be second in command.

We know best.

[dewilliams2]

Let Gribble lead the Avengers, I will be second in command.

We know best.

As long as I can dress as Wolverine...I won't actually do anything or have any powers...I'll just follow you guys around dressed that way.

[Junket]

As long as I can dress as Wolverine...I won't actually do anything or have any powers...I'll just follow you guys around dressed that way.

Intimidation can be an effective tool against the parasites of society.

[dewilliams2]

Intimidation can be an effective tool against the parasites of society.

I'll also probably be drunk a lot as well.

Funny story.....went over to my friends house and he answered the door wearing a cheetah costume...but just the top part so he was naked from the waist down....he had no idea where he got it, how he got home and did not realize he was naked....that had to have been an awesome night.

[tooxshort]

Holy shit, Gribs! That's the city I stay at when I'm in the Philippines!

Duterte is friggin' awesome ... He's made the streets SUPER safe in Davao. You can walk around at 3 AM and not worry about anything. The thing is ... there isn't much crime to punish because everyone follows the rules. No fear of being kidnapped and held for random there ... It's a great town and hopefully, when his term is up, his daughter will continue in his footsteps (probably with him in the background).

And about the Davao Death Squad ... DDS only kills criminals anyway. I think to be able to walk around safely in a foreign country is worth some hardcore tactics.

[Lipp]

Keyword, alleged criminals.

Introducing severe punishments is one thing, streetside killings without a trial is quite another.

[Mish]

Just because a state has a low crime rate it doesn't mean that it's good. Saudi Arabia for instance has one of the lowest murder rates and Yemen one of the lowest crime rates per capita. That sounds perfect on the surface right?

The Saudi legal system prescribes capital punishment or corporal punishment, including amputations of hands and feet for certain crimes such as murder, robbery, rape, drug smuggling, homosexual activity and adultery. Retribution may be sought in kind or through blood money. The blood money payable for a woman's accidental death, or that of a Christian male is half as much as that for a Muslim male. Honor killings are also not punished as severely as murder. This generally stems from the fact that honor killings are within a family, and done to compensate for some 'dishonorable' act committed. The Government views its interpretation of Islamic law as its sole source of guidance on human rights.

The "official" crime rate is low because all of the criminals are seating in the justice system and enact "legal" killings.

[Gribble]

That's religious insanity and a bloody-minded culture. Not the same.

We're talking about a death squad that executes released drug lords, that hunts down rapists and thugs. Do innocent people get caught in the middle? Yeah, I'm sure they do. Do more innocent people suffer than would if criminals were running free? I'd say clearly not. Davao City was once considered the murder capital of the Philippines. Now it seems the only folks in fear of being murdered are the criminals.

[Lipp]

Funny thing is that the "statistics" say that crime is going down, whereas the death squad killings themselves are criminal acts (especially as the Phillipines don't have the death penalty), so premeditated first-degree murder should be skyrocketing by now

[Mish]

These death squads they are killing the poor and street children? These are the guilty that deserve extrajudicial deaths by the vigilanties that you speak of? Did they really deserve to die?

Death squads operating in Davao City have killed more than 926 people, mostly poor and marginalized victims, such as alleged petty criminals, drug dealers, gang members, and street children. In April, Human Rights Watch released a report that concluded that police officers and local officials were involved or complicit in the Davao City killings. As investigation efforts have been delayed, there have been more killings. State Prosecutor Antonio Arellano reported 22 victims of purported death-squad killings in August and September 2009.

[url=http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2009/10/06/philippines-stop-hampering-death-squads-investigation]Philippines: Stop Hampering Death Squads Investigation | Human Rights Watch[/url]

Human Rights Watch also investigated a number of cases in which those killed were seemingly unintended targets, including victims of mistaken identity. Some Davao City residents also expressed the belief that some death squad members have become guns-for-hire, making everyone a potential target.

The longtime mayor of Davao City, Rodrigo Duterte, has made numerous statements attempting to justify the killing of suspected criminals, believing that such killings have a deterrent effect on crime and have made the city a safer place. But according to statistics provided by the Philippines National Police, the number of annual crime incidents has increased some 219 per cent in the last decade, while the city's population rose only by 29 per cent. An increasing number of death squad killings appear to have made crime rates worse in Davao.

[url]http://www.citymayors.com/society/philippines-death-squads.html[/url]

Selected accounts from "You Can Die Any Time: Death Squad Killings in Mindanao":
"We didn't go to the police to inquire about the case, because we had a strong suspicion that the people who killed my [relative] were either policemen themselves or well-known to the police. A wife of an officer from the Fermin Lira police camp told me some 10 days after the killing that this murder caused some trouble in the police - they called a meeting where they discussed that it was a mistake and that they felt sorry." - Human Rights Watch interview with a relative of Gabriel Sintasas, killed in General Santos City in March 2008, believed to be a victim of mistaken identity.

"Nobody said anything, because they were all afraid. The police asked who the victim was, and laughed as if they liked what they saw. They didn't talk to any of the witnesses. And then they left, leaving behind the body and empty shells. They didn't do anything. They didn't seem to care about any evidence." - Human Rights Watch interview with a friend of Conrad Dequina, killed in Davao City on 10 October 2007.

"I went into the house, and when I came back into the yard some time later, I saw Danilo face-to-face with a gunman. The gunman had dark skin and long hair, and was wearing basketball shorts and a loose T-shirt. I saw his companion on a motorcycle parked a couple of meters away - it was a black XRM motorcycle, and the driver was wearing a military hat. "The gunman, who had a pistol in his hand, was asking Danilo about some other man, Jon-Jon. I came forward and said that there was no one with such name in our block. But the gunman didn't leave. Danilo apparently sensed that something was wrong and tried to get inside the house, but at that moment the gunman shot him. He first shot him in the back, and then, when Danilo fell on the ground, the gunman kneeled next to him and shot him twice more, in the head, behind both ears. The gunman then jumped on the motorcycle that pulled by, and they drove away." - Human Rights Watch interview with relative of Danilo Auges, 38, killed on 26 May 2008, in General Santos City.

"Neither of [my friends in the death squad] has education, so there aren't that many choices for them out there. They prefer this job to being involved in ordinary crime because this is the safest illegal activity that also pays well. They are not afraid, because the person who would be the one to arrest them is usually their boss, and the rest is coordinated with the police." - Human Rights Watch interview with "Anthony" (pseudonym) on his four friends who are members of the Davao Death Squad.

[Gribble]

If through their deaths the city is a safer place for those doing right? Yes. Better to kill a hundred to save a thousand than to spare that hundred and allow a thousand to be victimized and murdered.

[Mish]

What about killing a thousand to save a hundred? Is that better as well? The crime is up in Davao by 219%

[tooxshort]

I don't believe that. I was there and a good chunk of my family is from there ... and they are NOT scared whatsoever of the DDS. Mainly because they know they aren't dealing drugs or involved in any of that bullshit. Stay away from drugs and you should be fine.