The unspoken victims...

[ItalianScot]

Hello - good to be here, I would like to share my thoughts with you on people who I believe, are victims, yet, have no voice.

These people are the partners of those who have an acute mental health problem.

I have not long come out of a relationship with a girl, who had a history of mental health problems and issues. She had had various different diagnosis, the latest one was something known as Borderline Personality Disorder.

Being a part of that, these past two years, has almost worn me to nothing, and I know I cannot be alone in this experience, yet, who is our voice?

I speak not of a bit of depression here, no no, much more than that, the person can go for a while apparently normal(ish), but, after a few weeks or so, they implode, and, when they do, it tends to be those that loved them the most, who are in the firing line.

There is the love you/hate you/love you phases, in which they will go from revering you, to loathing you, and often for no apparent reason. Those phases can vary in length, but going through that, time and again, it is hell, no matter how much you care for them, or love them, it will evetually kill much of your trust in them.

Then there are the erratic and impulsive behaviours, which endanger them, and, sometimes you (for example, when, to prove a point, they ring the police, and make claims that you have hurt them).

When you have first hand experience of lies (some so pointless), and that level of anger, leading to harm, then you start to ask yourself about other things that they have told you, and wonder how much of that is how she told it.

For example, you reflect on her claim of sexual abuse, and hope beyond hope that she would not lie about that, and yet, you also know that she is one mixed up person, with a history of lies, or misconceptions.

You think back to the somewhat benign rape story she once told you, and rethink how valid it might have been, given the fact that something about it did not ring true, at the time.

And that is what saddens you most, when it all goes wrong.

It is not that you miss them, per se, no, that was YOUR delusion, or, in this case, mine.

The TRUTH is that you miss what you hoped they might be, even if the hope is an absurd one, based on how they are, you are rarely, if ever, going to have a healthy relationship with someone that has these condtions, and will not take personal responsibilty, nor properly face up to them.

The thing is, that despite their condtion, no, because of it, they walk off, relatively unscathed, leaving carnage.

It tends to be the partner of the person with the problem, who is more traumatised.


Anyway, thanks for reading


Steve

[vashti]

The thing I always wonder is WHY, when there are so many millions of people on the planet, would anyone CHOOSE a broken person? Of course, I know the answer is White Knight Syndrome.

You are better off fixing your own baggage before you hook up with anyone else. People with White Knight Syndrome often jump from one bad relationship to another.

[ItalianScot]

The 'why' is crucial, yet easy to address - the reality is that when you meet someone with a condition such as this, they tend to water down the severity of any problems, airbrush the past, change history, and do whatever it takes to always make them the victim, whether they actually were or not.

By the time you begin to realise that things don't always add, you have often fallen for the person, and, someone with BPD can be so plausible, so manipulative, that you start to think that maybe, just maybe, it is really you, and not them.

I had to write a list, in the end, just to remind me.

[xxazurexx]

I think that as soon as a 'victim mentality' came to light, this blaming this, that and the other for problems, I'd be out of there.
It's a 'red flag' that points to this person having further deep rooted issues and if they are so quick to pin the blame on other things and for the way they are/or treat you.

Some people are just born 'shitheads' who don't know how to treat others.

[ItalianScot]

Sure, hindsight is great, but it tends to happen subtle, and done in a way in which, yes, it sounds plausible, and, well, at that point, you don't really feel you have enough to merit ending it, and probably don't want to.

By the time that things have gotten more serious, you gradually find it more of the impact of this disorder, and others, I would imagine, and, even the most intelligent person can be sucked up into the mania of it all.

I hate to say this, because all on it's merits, however, if what I went through is typical of being with someone with such a problem, then I could never do so again, I don't think. I want to help people, you want to take care of your partner, but not when you are at the other end of their mood swings.

[xxazurexx]

If they are clever enough to fool you, then IMO they don't have a mental illness, rather covering the tracks, to their 'true colours'.

And true colours never fail to shine through eventually.

[ItalianScot]

If they are clever enough to fool you, then IMO they don't have a mental illness, rather covering the tracks, to their 'true colours'.

And true colours never fail to shine through eventually.

I am sorry, but I could not disagree more. This makes the assumption that if someone is clever and devious, they do not have a mental health problem. On the contrary, people with mental health problems can be MORE devious, than those without. I know this for a fact.

[francoatgrex]

I am sorry, but I could not disagree more. This makes the assumption that if someone is clever and devious, they do not have a mental health problem. On the contrary, people with mental health problems can be MORE devious, than those without. I know this for a fact.

I will disagree with you and agree with the person who posted above saying that she is devious and hiding her true colors. Almost everyone has a certain level of dis-functioning/neurosis but that doesn't give them a green light to abuse others. In addition, despite everything, people who are human would try to make every effort to make themselves better and to have decent interactions with others. Yes you are a victim because you choose to be. It's also your choice to get out of such relationship with a person who is not ready to be in a relationship (at least in the current stagnating condition).

[lahnnabell]

He's not saying she's TRULY devious. More often that not, manipulation is a side effect of several mental disorders including Borderline and Bipolar Personality Disorder. I used to work with a Bipolar student last year, and my brother is Bipolar.

Pretty sure I've dated a few Bipolar guys as well. They would do exactly as you described... We began as a sweet, loving couple, and suddenly one night something was off, and then I said one wrong thing and everything went to hell. I went home many nights, confused and crying. My boyfriend in college would do this, then later call me to apologize. There was always a different reason for hurting me. Some little thing would tick him off, and he'd have absolutely no way to regulate his emotions. I eventually felt so drained and broken that I couldn't stay. It does wear you out.

[ItalianScot]

I will disagree with you and agree with the person who posted above saying that she is devious and hiding her true colors. Almost everyone has a certain level of dis-functioning/neurosis but that doesn't give them a green light to abuse others. In addition, despite everything, people who are human would try to make every effort to make themselves better and to have decent interactions with others. Yes you are a victim because you choose to be. It's also your choice to get out of such relationship with a person who is not ready to be in a relationship (at least in the current stagnating condition).

You are right, of course, it was always up to me to get out - I did, several times, and for some reason, I really don't why, I kept being drawn back.

Perhaps I was stupidly optimistic to think that if we did this or that, that there could be a positive outcome?

Perhaps there was a part of me that really felt that I wanted to help her? After all, by the time I realised how serious it was, I did love her, of that I am sure, and being the way I am, I find it hard to turn my back on those who I love, even if they are defective(sic).

You are right when you say that people with her problem have 'no right' to abuse others. They do not have the right, no one has, but I have found that either

A) They are actually psychologically unaware how they are being

B) They are aware, but are so able to make their mind an island, that they do not care enough to address it

And, yes, logically, someone would want to 'better themselves', logically, as you put it. However, the mind of somone with Borderline Personality Disorder, it is not like the mind of you or I, it doesn't think that way, logic and reason go out the window.

Genuine question - Do you know much about this condition?

[IndiReloaded]

I will disagree with you and agree with the person who posted above saying that she is devious and hiding her true colors. Almost everyone has a certain level of dis-functioning/neurosis but that doesn't give them a green light to abuse others. In addition, despite everything, people who are human would try to make every effort to make themselves better and to have decent interactions with others. Yes you are a victim because you choose to be. It's also your choice to get out of such relationship with a person who is not ready to be in a relationship (at least in the current stagnating condition).

Just what the world needs. Another excuse for ppl to call themselves 'victims' and avoid taking personal responsibility for their actions. Are you going to apply for government funding too to help those like you, in need?

Thank goodness for ppl like Vash, Azure and this^ poster. In my generation, there is a word for ppl like you: whinger. Since you obviously don't know it, here is the standard definition:

whinge |(h)winj| Brit., informal
verb ( whingeing ) [ intrans. ]

complain persistently and in a peevish or irritating way : stop whingeing and get on with it!

noun
an act of complaining in such a way.

DERIVATIVES
whingeingly adverb
whinger noun
whingy |-jē| adjective
ORIGIN late Old English hwinsian, of Germanic origin; related to German winseln

[Gigabitch]

You are right, of course, it was always up to me to get out - I did, several times, and for some reason, I really don't why, I kept being drawn back.

Then she's not the only one with mental problems, bub.

[ItalianScot]

He's not saying she's TRULY devious. More often that not, manipulation is a side effect of several mental disorders including Borderline and Bipolar Personality Disorder. I used to work with a Bipolar student last year, and my brother is Bipolar.

Pretty sure I've dated a few Bipolar guys as well. They would do exactly as you described... We began as a sweet, loving couple, and suddenly one night something was off, and then I said one wrong thing and everything went to hell. I went home many nights, confused and crying. My boyfriend in college would do this, then later call me to apologize. There was always a different reason for hurting me. Some little thing would tick him off, and he'd have absolutely no way to regulate his emotions. I eventually felt so drained and broken that I couldn't stay. It does wear you out.

Thanks for your post, and I can relate to what you have written x.

In my own experience, and I base it purely on her, people with Borderline Personality Disorder lack a true sense of normal guilt. Now, in my life, I have hurt people, and probably quite badly. I have done things I am my own harshest critic over. But there lies the difference. I am able to reflect, and, if possible, make good on what I have done wrong. Someone with this condition, they cannot or will not.

Two examples.

The last time I saw her, this is what happened. I stayed at her place, on the Fri night. She had an engineer coming at 8am, on the Sat, but she stayed up until three, and took her meds late (not good), and smoked a LOT of weed. She did manage to get up for the engineer, but the moment he was gone, she was MAD ANGRY. Over what? Lord alone knows. I was the obvious target, since I was the only person there, and for 45 mins I had her going on and on at me, really nasty. She was screaming at me to leave. I wanted to, but I had to get dressed, and put my contact lenses in, but she was being more and more awlkward, nastily saying that she would open the front door, let me dog out into the busy main road (she is meant to be a dog lover).

She was like this a lot in the mornings, always. It got to the point that I wanted to stay over, less and less, because I knew what she would be like, next morning.

However, on this occasion, she surpassed even herself. On my way out, and in my frustration, I gave a kick to a pile of CD's that were on the floor. All they did was topple over. And then I left. Moments later, as I was walking along the road, a police car shows up, and says that she is claiming I assualted her, and that I would have to go to the station, to be interviewed. I was there seven hours, which caused me huge stress, and my dog, as he had to be parted from me, and put in police kennels.

Here in the UK, they have an automatic 48hour lockdown/cool off, if police believe that the claim is serious. This came about as there were bad guys who would get right back out, and finish the job. However, after seven hours of being there, the police said I had no case to answer, and let me go.

Never did I get an apology for that, nor will I get one, for in her mind, she will have reinvented history, and told a different version to those around her, usually to gain something, with her, it was always a gain, be it financial or whatever.

Next example doesn't involve me, but it is a good insight into the mind of the person.

Ready?

We were doing this 'you can ask anything' game, one night. She was telling me how, one time, she had this male friend. She had been invited to the wedding of this male friend, by him and his soon to be wife. Somehow or other, she went to the stag night, the night before the wedding. She slept with this guy, and they went to the wedding together. Can you imagine? It takes a special sort of person to sleep with the groom the night before he gets married, an even more special person to have the guts to show up, wish them all the best, and an even more special person not to see what she had done was just so wrong, on so many levels. Yet, when relating this to me, you could just tell, by her manner, that she did not see it the way that you or I might.

Hope that made some sense

Steve

[ItalianScot]

Then she's not the only one with mental problems, bub.

Well, it obviously has caused me to self question. I used to think I was a confident person, but I guess I must have a low self worth, if that is what you mean.

[IndiReloaded]

We were doing this 'you can ask anything' game, one night. She was telling me how, one time, she had this male friend. She had been invited to the wedding of this male friend, by him and his soon to be wife. Somehow or other, she went to the stag night, the night before the wedding. She slept with this guy, and they went to the wedding together. Can you imagine? It takes a special sort of person to sleep with the groom the night before he gets married, an even more special person to have the guts to show up, wish them all the best, and an even more special person not to see what she had done was just so wrong, on so many levels. Yet, when relating this to me, you could just tell, by her manner, that she did not see it the way that you or I might.

Ha, I wonder though how long you continued to date her after this revelation.

What would have made sense would have been to get up, get your hat and walk out the door after this gem of an overshare. But you didn't, did you?