Human Trash

[vashti]

Don't feel bad, incognito. I am 1000x more offended by your wife putting up with this than I am by your child beating.

[Incognito]

Do you all REALLY want me to take this to a place that I really DIDN'T want to go? There is a reason I suspect that ALL of you arguing with me because of. It isn't pleasant to discuss, it will cause divides, it will drag countless others into the conversation, and it will be an absolute mess. I typically don't even like to bring it up with people I am not close to because it sullies their outlook of me, regardless of the fact that I am right.

[Incognito]

@ IndiReloaded: That picture is sad. Its obviously not what I come home to because I am not abusive. Furthermore its people like you who make having an opinion seem like a crime. FU

[vashti]

Do you all REALLY want me to take this to a place that I really DIDN'T want to go? There is a reason I suspect that ALL of you arguing with me because of. It isn't pleasant to discuss, it will cause divides, it will drag countless others into the conversation, and it will be an absolute mess. I typically don't even like to bring it up with people I am not close to because it sullies their outlook of me, regardless of the fact that I am right.

well, you have certainly piqued MY interest.

[IndiReloaded]

@ IndiReloaded: That picture is sad. Its obviously not what I come home to because I am not abusive. Furthermore its people like you who make having an opinion seem like a crime. FU

Yep^, the catch-all, classy response to those who can't effectively defend their indefensible position.

Next stage: denial. Unless of course you want to skip all that and understand that your daughter will have issues with you having beat her growing up.
I have no problem illuminating assholes and their faulty arguments, Cog. Online or in real life.

To those who are still wondering about all this, here's the litmus test:

How many of you think that Daddy Dearest here would proudly state to his family doctor, teacher, family, friends and neighbours his incredibly enlightened parenting style? Or do you think he keeps it to himself, except on the anonymity of an online forum?

I get compliments all the time on my parenting. I bet Vash does too. Her kids are older, I admire her technique and the challenges she has overcome in a rational, consistent way. I happily explain to people the methods I use, and I bet Vash does too.

Put another way, if you had a parenting question, or had to leave your kids with Incog or Vash for a week, who would you choose?

[Incognito]

Yep^, the catch-all, classy response to those who can't effectively defend their indefensible position. How many of you think that Daddy Dearest here would proudly state to his family doctor, teacher, family, friends and neighbours his incredibly enlightened parenting style? Or do you think he keeps it to himself, except on the anonymity of an online forum?

Ok, you act as though I am not supposed to be offended at your relentless attacking of my statements, and that since I am offended that I am supposed to say nothing. Wrong. In a setting where words are the only weapon I tried to avoid insults by explaining my position in great detail only to be categorized and have words shoved in my mouth. As for proudly stating my parenting style I do. I don't wear a shirt that says I advocate physical discipline because there is no need to do that, plus I'd draw the attention of opinionated assholes like yourself. When people have children who are acting out, and I know them, I always advocate physical discipline if the situation seems to warrants it (but that obviously depends on a lot of things as discussed earlier).

If I remember correctly you're the same person who thinks its alright to cheat on your partner after years of marriage and that it should be accepted and expected. I have to take everything you say with a grain of salt because you views on life in general are obviously askew.

[vashti]

Incognito - just a word of caution for you: my parents felt the same way YOU do, and I was spanked a lot. With a belt. For things that were within the range of "normal" child behavior (including sassiness).

I have never forgiven them, and my mom regrets being so short-sighted now. (Dad is dead.)

[Incognito]

Put another way, if you had a parenting question, or had to leave your kids with Incog or Vash for a week, who would you choose?

This is an obvious attempt to influence others' opinions in you favor. It would be stupid to ask someone that you know nothing about to watch your kids. Not to mention that we are discussing discipline administered by a parent to their child. I've never put my hands on someone else's child, and wouldn't without the parent's express permission. Even then I highly doubt that I'd discipline someone else's child.

[Incognito]

To those who are still wondering about all this, here's the litmus test:

How many of you think that Daddy Dearest here would proudly state to his family doctor, teacher, family, friends and neighbours his incredibly enlightened parenting style? Or do you think he keeps it to himself, except on the anonymity of an online forum?

I'd never deny my discipline methods, especially since (for the umteenth f*cking time) I am not using that as a primary means of discipline anymore. I think I passed your litmus test.

[IndiReloaded]

If I remember correctly you're the same person who thinks its alright to cheat on your partner after years of marriage and that it should be accepted and expected. I have to take everything you say with a grain of salt because you views on life in general are obviously askew.

Yep. And this same person has been married, once, for 20 years without cheating. Gets along well with my husband. Doesn't need to beat her kids, balances a high-profile job with home and still has time to come online and try to reeducate people like you.

Sounds to me like someone you could actually learn something from. Shrug.

As for proudly stating my parenting style I do. I don't wear a shirt that says I advocate physical discipline because there is no need to do that, plus I'd draw the attention of opinionated assholes like yourself.

Since you are so obviously intelligent, I shouldn't need to point out that there is a contradiction here^. You do know that "assholes" would have issue with you, and rightly so. Thank goodness the world still has these kinds of assholes in it, I say.

Again, you skip over the important questions: why do you think neither Vash nor I need to beat our kids? I guarantee our kids will be more reasonable and successful than yours.

Are we just genetically superior to you? Are our kids some exception to the rule? I can burst that argument quickly too with some example of my family taking in troubled teens and turning them around.

Anyway, unlike some stay-at home dads who have time to think about these things (and definitely should!), I have to work. Go get that book I said unless you are too stubborn to even entertain I might know something you don't.

[Incognito]

Incognito - just a word of caution for you: my parents felt the same way YOU do, and I was spanked a lot. With a belt. For things that were within the range of "normal" child behavior (including sassiness).

I have never forgiven them, and my mom regrets being so short-sighted now. (Dad is dead.)

I suppose it depends on the individuals involved and the severity/frequency of the spankings. (I mentioned that physical discipline doesn't always equal spankings) I do see how that, even when a child repeatedly does things worthy of discipline, that always going for the physical means can cause deep divides. As am aware of that and always kept in in mind in years past. The kind of comment that you just made is much more productive and civil and, quite frankly is the Vashti that I am used to seeing here. Glad to see you back.

[Incognito]

Yep. And this same person has been married, once, for 20 years without cheating. Gets along well with my husband. Doesn't need to beat her kids, balances a high-profile job with home and still has time to come online and try to reeducate people like you.

Since you are so obviously intelligent, I shouldn't need to point out that there is a contradiction here^. You do know that "assholes" would have issue with you, and rightly so. Thank goodness the world still has these kinds of assholes in it, I say.

Again, you skip over the important questions: why do you think neither Vash nor I need to beat our kids? I guarantee our kids will be more reasonable and successful than yours.

Are we just genetically superior to you? Are our kids some exception to the rule? I can burst that argument quickly too with some example of my family taking in troubled teens and turning them around.

Anyway, unlike some stay-at home dads who have time to think about these things (and definitely should!), I have to work. Go get that book I said unless you are too stubborn to even entertain I might know something you don't.

Ok I cannot lie, I was really pissed as I started to read this. Then I laughed.

Anyway, assholes are people who cannot bear to accept that other people don't or won't accept their views. You are one of them and the world would be a better place without you and your kind. Second I NEVER said that you and Vashti needed to beat YOUR kids. I challenge you to find where I said that. Thats what I thought! I freely admitted that some kids respond to nonphysical discipline very well and it doesn't need to be resorted to in those cases. Clearly your children fit that discription. It looks like you conveniently ignored that just so that you could further try to discredit my views.

The statement about your kids being more sucessful and more reasonable than mine based solely one this issue is ignorant, naive, and was said only to provoke me. Finally on to the part that made me laugh.... It was the the clever "stay at home dad" remark. I suppose that if I actually were a stay at home dad that my pride would have been hurt by that statement, but alas I'm at work you simpleton. That just you ASSuming again and making an ASS of yourself.

As far as the book goes I am not so arrogant that I'd think that I know it all or that everything that I do is the best way to do any particular thing. I am always learning something new and correcting things that I may have been doing wrong before. Perhaps I will write down that book title and check it out, perhaps I will learn something from it, but that gives you no right to demean me for for doing something that is legal and that I see as beneficial.

[dewilliams2]

I still think spanking is on the table. It is not appropriate for everything. I was never hit with anything other than a hand. Like I said marks were never left on me and I never cowered from my parents or feared them. I know they love me.

When I have children I will do the same thing. My gf has a little girl and she is already popping a diaper. It isn't so much that you have to hit them to inflict pain its more of the shock value and the sound of it....it gets your point across clearly.

I work with animals, many of you know this. When I am training a tiger I use a pencil to begin with and tap it on the nose when it is a baby and misbehaves, as it gets older my stick gets bigger but it never gets any bigger than a cut off piece of broom handle....because you simply are not going to beat an animal that size into submission. I don't usually have to use my stick, I just keep it in my back pocket but its the fact that when I have it, the tiger knows it should behave itself or I'm gonna tap it in the nose. Once you start disciplining "lightly" at an early age you don't have to as they get older because they remember there are consequences.

The same holds true for children. You don't have to "beat" your kids when they are young but popping their pants and then explaining to them why what they did was wrong is a quick and efficient way of discipline. Taking something away works better for older children.

I don't think there is a right and a wrong way in terms of the two schools of discipline. I think generally they both work as long as there is good consistent parenting. It doesn't matter how you discipline your children, if you do not teach them at the same time then the discipline is wasted....the greatest problem most children face is the fact that their parents are incompetent and lazy parents.

I do reiterate, there is a difference between spanking and beating your children and for those of you who want to argue differently, you are greatly mistaken.

[IndiReloaded]

that gives you no right to demean me for for doing something that is legal and that I see as beneficial.

I have every right to point out something that is wrong. And, like I said, if telling you that beating your child with a belt makes me an asshole: Bring It. That's a T-shirt I'll wear with pride:

I'm an asshole b/c I told a jerk who beats his daughter with a belt that he shouldn't.

I'm done arguing with you Cog. You think what you have done is okay and there is no way to make you realize otherwise except to have you ask your daughter about it someday, if you can find the courage. I hope she forgives you, for both your sakes.

@ Vash & Miso, is beating your child with a belt legal? Somehow, I doubt it, unless you happen to live in Saudi.

[dewilliams2]

Yep. And this same person has been married, once, for 20 years without cheating. Gets along well with my husband. Doesn't need to beat her kids, balances a high-profile job with home and still has time to come online and try to reeducate people like you.

Sounds to me like someone you could actually learn something from. Shrug.



Since you are so obviously intelligent, I shouldn't need to point out that there is a contradiction here^. You do know that "assholes" would have issue with you, and rightly so. Thank goodness the world still has these kinds of assholes in it, I say.

Again, you skip over the important questions: why do you think neither Vash nor I need to beat our kids? I guarantee our kids will be more reasonable and successful than yours.

Are we just genetically superior to you? Are our kids some exception to the rule? I can burst that argument quickly too with some example of my family taking in troubled teens and turning them around.

Anyway, unlike some stay-at home dads who have time to think about these things (and definitely should!), I have to work. Go get that book I said unless you are too stubborn to even entertain I might know something you don't.

Your saying I will fail at life because my parents spanked me as a child?....its an old practice and I hardly see a bunch of failures throughout history. Many people who actually were literally "beaten" and physically abused became great successes....I don't think that has a whole lot to do with what you achieve in life....your theory holds little water....and trust me I am not failing at life and my parents never beat or physically abused me.