Has the US lost its edge permanently?

[Gigabitch]

One of my friends told me she thinks her four and a half year old daughter is gifted because she came in to her mom's bedroom, woke her up at 5:30 a.m. and asked her to explain gravity. Instead of telling her to go back to sleep, my friend woke up to explain this to her.

She's raising a little asshole.

[IndiReloaded]

One of my friends told me she thinks her four and a half year old daughter is gifted because she came in to her mom's bedroom, woke her up at 5:30 a.m. and asked her to explain gravity..

::pushes bratty kid briskly off the bed so she falls on her ass::

That^ might be sufficient explanation in the correct context.

(yes, I'm joking)

[Junket]

The world doesn't need any more gifted children, we coddle enough of the normal ones as it is.

We need to raise children that are strong willed, driven, sensible, and fair.

[CAM]

One of my friends told me she thinks her four and a half year old daughter is gifted because she came in to her mom's bedroom, woke her up at 5:30 a.m. and asked her to explain gravity. Instead of telling her to go back to sleep, my friend woke up to explain this to her.

She's raising a little asshole.

Oh, this is quite typical of students these days. I see it all the time. The "gifted ones" (as I'm told) are famous for asking questions like that. "What is gravity?" or "What is the elastic clause in the US Constitution?" or "What does it mean to be truly politically disenfranchised?" or, whatever...pretty much anything that sounds like an erudite question.

But, asking questions ISN'T a sign of being smart (I prefer that to "gifted"..."gifted" sounds like what we used to call "special education").

Asking questions doesn't make you smart....ANSWERING questions is a sign of intelligence. If that four year old child came in and EXPLAINED the Special Theory of Relativity...okay, I'd be impressed.

And, I love it when they ask the erudite question. Then I answer it and explain it to the students. And then, come exam-time, the students can't explain the concept to me. Yes exam time is when I get to ask the questions and they get to try to slog their way toward an incomplete or innacurate answer...the little ****ing geniuses.

[Gribble]

The world doesn't need any more gifted children, we coddle enough of the normal ones as it is.

We need to raise children that are strong willed, driven, sensible, and fair.

Nah. We need kids who realize there's nothing fair about this world and instead of bemoaning the fact, realize that it is a potential advantage to be exploited. Guys who play fair go home and beat off into a baseball mitt while someone else ****s the cheerleader.

[vashti]

Oh, this is quite typical of students these days. I see it all the time. The "gifted ones" (as I'm told) are famous for asking questions like that. "What is gravity?" or "What is the elastic clause in the US Constitution?" or "What does it mean to be truly politically disenfranchised?" or, whatever...pretty much anything that sounds like an erudite question.

But, asking questions ISN'T a sign of being smart (I prefer that to "gifted"..."gifted" sounds like what we used to call "special education").

Asking questions doesn't make you smart....ANSWERING questions is a sign of intelligence. If that four year old child came in and EXPLAINED the Special Theory of Relativity...okay, I'd be impressed.

And, I love it when they ask the erudite question. Then I answer it and explain it to the students. And then, come exam-time, the students can't explain the concept to me. Yes exam time is when I get to ask the questions and they get to try to slog their way toward an incomplete or innacurate answer...the little ****ing geniuses.

Perhaps you you should consider another way of relating the information? I mean, I'm sure YOU know what you are talking about, but it takes a special gift to be able to articulate that knowledge in a way that makes it accessible.

I won't address your rant against four year olds. It's pretty obvious you haven't had any experience with them.

[SirWagginston]

Okay, so one two-year-old that can speak and name capitals got in MENSA. That's unusual, even by their standards. Psychologically, that girl is someone much older.

[Junket]

Nah. We need kids who realize there's nothing fair about this world and instead of bemoaning the fact, realize that it is a potential advantage to be exploited. Guys who play fair go home and beat off into a baseball mitt while someone else ****s the cheerleader.

Before I delve into this with you, what exactly is it that we're discussing?

What constitutes as fair as far as women go? Or maybe the workplace? School?

I'm getting tired of arguing with someone about one thing, when they're on a parallel topic.

It's like arguing the sky is blue against the clouds are white.

[Gribble]

Everything. Never play fair. Ever. War, love, work, play. You should never go into any situation on equal footing. Always have a card up your sleeve. If it's a fair fight you've done something wrong.

I'm talking underhanded tactics, smooth but hollow words, inside information--whatever it takes to give you an edge over the competition. Because you know what? The guy who walks away with the girl or who gets the promotion isn't the sincere, devoted guy. It's the guy who knows what to say and when to say it, whether he means it or not. The guy who steals your brilliant idea and runs with it. The guy who isn't afraid to get his hands dirty.

[CAM]

Perhaps you you should consider another way of relating the information? I mean, I'm sure YOU know what you are talking about, but it takes a special gift to be able to articulate that knowledge in a way that makes it accessible.

I won't address your rant against four year olds. It's pretty obvious you haven't had any experience with them.

Oh yes, "...make it accessible..." That is code for "explain it to them like its Sesame Street." We already do that in education. We explain it, we give examples, we ask them if they understand it, we ask them if they have questions, we have group exercises...blah, blah, blah.

Some things require active thought, maybe even the capacity to think theoretically or abstractly. See, when we talk about "accessible" learning, then we are reall talking about passive, stepwise processes...linear thinking.

Getting back to losing our edge as a nation...the abstract and theoretical thought is what makes it happen. Or, if you want to go the China route and have a huge labor pool of linear thinking factory line workers...well, that doesn't command the salary and benefit packages that we pay to folks like in the US. We pay for that which we don't get.

The four year old...the child is ape-ing that which he/she sees on TV or hears on the radio or from a teacher. It is cute. It isn't anything more than cute.

What would say if your four year old said, "Mommy, what's a rim shot?" Would you say, "Oh, nifty! My child has a future in the porn industry! Quick, let me call grandma and tell her about my smart little kid!!" I doubt it. You would probably wonder where she heard that expression because Lord knows she didn't think that up in any abstract way.

[CAM]

I knew a 6 year old who could multiply and divide 3-digit numbers by 3-digit numbers in his head...no manual multiplication or long division (do they even learn that anymore??).

Now, that kid was SMART...active mind, learned it on his own.

What did the school say when he started 1st grade? The teachers told the parents that he should stop doing that because it embarrassed the other kids....yeah, they wanted him to be average and malleable. The parents pulled him out of that school.

[Junket]

Everything. Never play fair. Ever. War, love, work, play. You should never go into any situation on equal footing. Always have a card up your sleeve. If it's a fair fight you've done something wrong.

I'm talking underhanded tactics, smooth but hollow words, inside information--whatever it takes to give you an edge over the competition. Because you know what? The guy who walks away with the girl or who gets the promotion isn't the sincere, devoted guy. It's the guy who knows what to say and when to say it, whether he means it or not. The guy who steals your brilliant idea and runs with it. The guy who isn't afraid to get his hands dirty.

Based off of my experience, and not just my ideals, I cannot agree with you on all of that.

[CAM]

Everything. Never play fair. Ever. War, love, work, play. You should never go into any situation on equal footing. Always have a card up your sleeve. If it's a fair fight you've done something wrong.

I'm talking underhanded tactics, smooth but hollow words, inside information--whatever it takes to give you an edge over the competition. Because you know what? The guy who walks away with the girl or who gets the promotion isn't the sincere, devoted guy. It's the guy who knows what to say and when to say it, whether he means it or not. The guy who steals your brilliant idea and runs with it. The guy who isn't afraid to get his hands dirty.

Sure, if you don't live in a civilised world, then it is all against all. According to Thomas Hobbes, (philosopher...he wasn't into "accessible education"), what you describe iis theworld in the state of Nature. Yeah, it is all good clean fun until you get yourself killed.

I find your approach to be a total rejection of 5,000 years of human development. BTW: you wouldn't be using an Internet if we lived in your idealized state.

[vashti]

Oh yes, "...make it accessible..." That is code for "explain it to them like its Sesame Street." We already do that in education. We explain it, we give examples, we ask them if they understand it, we ask them if they have questions, we have group exercises...blah, blah, blah.

Some things require active thought, maybe even the capacity to think theoretically or abstractly. See, when we talk about "accessible" learning, then we are reall talking about passive, stepwise processes...linear thinking.

Getting back to losing our edge as a nation...the abstract and theoretical thought is what makes it happen. Or, if you want to go the China route and have a huge labor pool of linear thinking factory line workers...well, that doesn't command the salary and benefit packages that we pay to folks like in the US. We pay for that which we don't get.

The four year old...the child is ape-ing that which he/she sees on TV or hears on the radio or from a teacher. It is cute. It isn't anything more than cute.

What would say if your four year old said, "Mommy, what's a rim shot?" Would you say, "Oh, nifty! My child has a future in the porn industry! Quick, let me call grandma and tell her about my smart little kid!!" I doubt it. You would probably wonder where she heard that expression because Lord knows she didn't think that up in any abstract way.

Oh please. You sound like you are making excuses for not being able to relate to your students. I've experienced instructors like that. I never learned anything from them other than to rely on myself for the learning.

[Mish]

Nah. We need kids who realize there's nothing fair about this world and instead of bemoaning the fact, realize that it is a potential advantage to be exploited. Guys who play fair go home and beat off into a baseball mitt while someone else ****s the cheerleader.

This may have been the official thinking some two hundred years ago, but the current research into operations inside of a workplace doesn't support that. Equity, procedural and distributive justive theories support fairness inside of the workplace as a building stone that increases productivity and personal gain for all participants (both above and below). While unfairness is demonstrated by some dramatic downfalls like in cases of Enron, Worldcom and other organisations with dodgy and selfish practices that led to the global financial crisis. The lessons from recent history point to the fact that with time everything gets revealed and the self absorbed ussually pay the highest price in the end.