I don't understand him---HELP

[girl68]

You've busted him in many lies and you keep choosing to believe him. ThisHis continuing to lie is an easy choice to make every time you've busted him he covers it up with a lie that you choose to stay and believe.

Let me tell you something I learnt recently: forgiveness is a commitment. Meaning if you choose to forgive him that means you've committed to not bringing it up and holding it against him. By you still thinking he's lying (rightfully so) you have broken the forgiveness committment. My point: you shouldn't have forgiven him at all.

[rain.man]

they've been dating for 8 years off and on...i don't think her asking for this information is neurotic, especially when she's caught him in lies before. he did this to himself by being dishonest. he either gives up the information, or takes a hike.

I'm not calling her neurotic, I'm saying this obsession over privacy usually results from neurotic exes (though not in this case considering she was his first). And there is a BIG difference between asking and demanding (her words). Asking is fine, but you don't make *demands* like that. Demands and ultimatums are pretty much relationship killers. When it gets to the point of saying "give me X or go away", you may as well just end things right there and save yourself even more fighting.

He royally screwed himself by lying, but he should stand his ground, refuse to sacrifice his privacy and make her decide whether she can ever really trust him. It has been my experience that giving in to demands only encourages further demands in the future.

[RdHrshyKss]

well then according to your ideology, there relationship is already doomed. if she gives him the right to not compromise and relinquish that information in order to PROVE that he is not guilty, then he will just continue to walk all over her. people are naturally LAZY. they will do the least amount of work possible to get by, even in relationships. so if she just "asks" him for this information, and gives him the choice, he will just say "no" and continue with his negative behavior. he will never learn.

but the OP should make the choice. i do sort of agree with what your saying, but in my opinion it's something that makes sense in your head, but just doesn't work in practice because people will take advantage when the opportunity arises for them to do so. if she isn't so demanding then he will have no reason or incentive to make any changes. that's just my opinion though. if the OP needs this information in order to make any forward progress in the trust department then he should cooperate, if he doesn't, get rid of him.

[BackUpOrGetStng]

I think it is doomed, and it should be. I don't know why she's sticking around waiting for things to change. Odds are he is cheating on her, and at this point, I don't really even feel bad for her because she's chosen to accept it. If someone refuses to tell you the truth and show common human respect to you, you should end it. If you don't, you deserve whatever comes after.

[RdHrshyKss]

I think it is doomed, and it should be. I don't know why she's sticking around waiting for things to change. Odds are he is cheating on her, and at this point, I don't really even feel bad for her because she's chosen to accept it. If someone refuses to tell you the truth and show common human respect to you, you should end it. If you don't, you deserve whatever comes after.

she said that he's admitted to the lying, and they've been together for 8 years, so throwing it out the window might not be so easy. i still think she should give him an ultimatum...give him one opportunity to come clean about everything. if he can't accept this as an opportunity to start fresh, then he's a selfish idiot and the OP should end it.

[Gigabitch]

I would end it anyway. He's a liar. His only reason for thinking he shouldn't lie is that he keeps getting busted, not because it's wrong. Hopeless.

[RdHrshyKss]

I would end it anyway. He's a liar. His only reason for thinking he shouldn't lie is that he keeps getting busted, not because it's wrong. Hopeless.

good point.

[rain.man]

well then according to your ideology, there relationship is already doomed. if she gives him the right to not compromise and relinquish that information in order to PROVE that he is not guilty, then he will just continue to walk all over her. people are naturally LAZY. they will do the least amount of work possible to get by, even in relationships. so if she just "asks" him for this information, and gives him the choice, he will just say "no" and continue with his negative behavior. he will never learn.

but the OP should make the choice. i do sort of agree with what your saying, but in my opinion it's something that makes sense in your head, but just doesn't work in practice because people will take advantage when the opportunity arises for them to do so. if she isn't so demanding then he will have no reason or incentive to make any changes. that's just my opinion though. if the OP needs this information in order to make any forward progress in the trust department then he should cooperate, if he doesn't, get rid of him.

It was doomed a *long* time ago. She should have dumped him by now. Instead, she kept letting it slide thinking that one day he'd wake up and magically change himself. And we all know how often that happens.

Ultimatums are a crutch for people who can't bring themselves to do what they know they have to. It lets them deflect the blame onto the other person. IMO, if she can't trust him, and he won't share the info of his own free will, she should dump him. End of story.

I'm not suggesting you ask nicely and then become a doormat when he refuses. You ask, and if he refuses you walk away. Why waste your time and emotions trying to change someone into who you think they should be? Save that energy and just find the end result. This is the same old "turn a bad boy into a good man" fairy tale when she should just skip the years of drama and find herself a good man to begin with. They are out there.

[SapphireBerry]

Ok This is not from my experience only my uncles.
My uncle was your age when he came over to New Zealand with his girlfriend and they got very serious and had two kids and got married.
She was a total drama queen and her whole wedding day she couldn't drink cuz she was pregnant with the first kid, she threw a big drama
all day and everything was about her apparently (i wasnt there cuz they got married in England). Anyway we thought she was just a typical
dramatised female but then she started to get lazy and selfish and evntually ended up cheating on my uncle numerous amounts of times with
supposed wrestler guys. She has broken up with him and married and had a baby with some random guy she met online (note: she is very slutty
and liked to post herself naked on Facebook and also post pictures of her in school uniform which my uncle took himself) and she used to hint on her
facebook 'I'm married to the king of assholes'. My uncle is not the happiest of men but he is definitely a lovey man and he is very devoted to a woman.
He is moving on but is always depressed and he spends all his time at home and never talks to us anymore even when we lived next to him. Look where
he is now, I would hate to end up like him. Even though she cheated on him and didn't really want to take their relationship to another level she still
married him had two kids with him then did him wrong. I'm not saying this is going to happen to you but maybe consider the fact he may be saying
all this to make you happy, he may not want this really and guys just dont know how serious it is until he has kids and is married.
You need to try and stop invading his privacy, alot of guys bare faced lie to their girlfriends
trust me I know this. He should not be lying to you and if you are really unsure about him try find some form of evidence that he is doing what you
think he's doing which is flirting with this 'co worker'. Its not nice to go behind guys back but if its making you this paranoid sometimes you just cant
help but go behind their back. You need to be sure of what he's all about if you are planning on moving in together. I haven't read all your extension
posts but what is going on here is quite obvious, if he really appears to be hiding something you have a right to know how he feels before he starts
manipulating you into marrying him when he may be potentially unfaithful. you dont want to end up like my uncle who grew up with this woman as well.
You don't wanna be left feeling like all those years were a waste of your love and life. I mean if you broke it off with him now it would hurt so bad
but you don't wanna get in deeper with him until you know what is going on and then end up feeling worse because you got more serious with him, if you
know what I'm saying.

Good luck,
Sapphire x

[commonsense111]

Hey. Thanks everyone for the imput and the advice. My boyfriend willingly handed over the phone records and dealt with the 1000 questions about the numbers and such. We talked about the girl he was talking to and he finally fessed up that they'd been talking for the majoirty of the time he's been emplyoed with the company. He swears that he's never been with her in a romantic sense in any sense of that word. According to him they were gossipers. They liked to talk a lot of crap about corporate pushing them around. Since he's left that portion of the company, and it shows in the recrods, they haven't talked that much.

I asked him to not talk to her anymore considering the horrible stigma that is now attatched to the thought of her and he was happy to comply. He said that the conversations never meant anything to him but venting about work. He said he would have talked to someone else but no one else at work was as big of a complainer as him. In fact, according to him, he didn't even really like her that much. I'm not sure how I feel about that part.... however

We are trying to work back to the boundaries of trust and he's willing to do what it takes. He feels horrible for keeping it a secret but he felt like the relationship between them was completely acceptable though he was convinced that I would be angry and in order to avoid conflict with me he refrianed from letting me know about it.

He's willing to come clean with his freinds too about this story he made up in order to save the relationship.