Tied Up

[b42]

About 6 months ago my boyfriend started choking me during sex. I was not into it so I told him to stop, and he did. Then a couple months later I woke up one morning fully bound with duct tape and rope. He must have very carefully done this because I am a light sleeper, but I did not wake up until he tightened the last knot and walked out of the room. Luckily my adrenaline kicked in and I managed to rip the tape and then untie myself quickly. I flipped out and yelled at him never to do that again. After I calmed down we talked about it. He said he never meant to hurt me (I wasn't hurt physically), but it would not have been as sexually stimulating if he had asked my permission first because the "realness" of it would not be there. He was very genuine, apologized profusely, and sent me flowers the next day at work. I believe that he was not trying to hurt me, and he did not try it again.

He is more often than not very aggressive in bed, which I like sometimes but not as frequently as he does, and he gets aggressive quickly instead of working up to it the way I prefer. Generally, outside of the bedroom, he is very sweet. At times he can be controlling, telling me I should not cuss or hang out with certain people. That protective side of him is sweet although a little strange considering he has dated a lot of strippers. (No, I'm not a stripper) Rarely does he get physical by grabbing my arm or telling a random guy at a bar to f*** off and pushing him away just because he asked to borrow my lighter. He is not a "fighter" but has probably been in 3-4 fights in the last 2 years. Once he almost lost his job because of a fight, but he has never hit me. That is something I would never tolerate.

Recently I told a few friends about these incidents, and they all reacted in the same way telling me he's dangerous. Are they overreacting or am I giving him too much credit? They know he's very good to me all the time, but I guess they don't see that every day or they're just not considering it as part of the big picture in the face of this news. They also don't know that he is really fragile. His childhood was not good to say the least. His parents are not there at all or come around only to take advantage of him, which is very sad because he can't say no. I was convinced he just has some sexual fetishes that don't always match my own, but now my friends have me second guessing myself, especially when I look back at how he tied me up while I slept.

I guess I'm just looking for more opinions...

[quietandshy]

I really don't like the sound of this. My opinion is that you should listen to what your friends say. I think you're giving him too much credit.

Maybe he hasn't hit you, but he sounds controlling. Grabbing your arm isn't cool. I would feel totally violated if someone did that to me.

Please be safe.

[Infern0]

You woke up tied up and gagged?

Get out of there right now, no ****ing about that is seriously wrong, put an end to this before something bad happens

[MerryH]

He said he never meant to hurt me (I wasn't hurt physically), but it would not have been as sexually stimulating if he had asked my permission first because the "realness" of it would not be there.

This is just such a disgusting violation. He didn't ask for your permission because that wouldn't have been as fun for him. For HIM. He didn't care about your feelings at the time. These types of sex games should be enjoyable to both parties, and both parties should be consenting. You can't consent if you're asleep.

That protective side of him is sweet

Controlling what you say or who you choose to spend your time with is not sweet.

Rarely does he get physical by grabbing my arm

Rarely is too often. Manhandling you is never okay.

He is not a "fighter"

Yes he is. 3-4 fights in a couple of years? That's not normal adult behavior. Almost losing a job due to a fight is not normal and shows that he can't control his anger well enough, even at work where he knew there would be serious repercussions.

he has never hit me. That is something I would never tolerate.

But controlling you, grabbing your arm in anger, and forcing a sexual activity on you while you're asleep is a-okay?

he's very good to me all the time

No he's not. See above.

the big picture

All that nasty stuff he does to you is part of the big picture. This is pretty much exactly the same as a battered woman saying "But he's so nice when he's not hitting me"**

So yeah, you're giving him too much credit. He does sound dangerous. And, fine, if you're not ready to see that you're in danger, at least can you agree that he has trouble managing his anger and treating you and others with respect? A person like that does not make for a good partner. You can't excuse his actions because he had a bad childhood. That's not your fault and you shouldn't be the one who has to deal with the results. Sorry you're going through this. There's a lot of help out there for you, if you want it.




**"And he's always really sorry afterward because he sends me flowers." Familiar, right?

[b42]

The thing is he never tried this stuff again. I've tried to read about these things, but I only find posts about how these practices can be stimulating for women. Choking enhances orgasm by reducing oxygen flow to the brain or something. I get that but have no desire to try it, and I guess some women like the idea of being tied up and helpless or dominated. I like my man to take charge (to a point), and sometimes I like to do the same, but going as far as domination just doesn't do it for me.

Do these activities give men more pleasure, too? I can see how some women would enjoy them, but I don't see how the man gets enjoyment unless he knows it adds excitement for his lady. Maybe I simply can't relate because I've never had a domination or dominated fantasy? It seems like a lot of people do so it can't be inherently bad.

Although he has not tried either one since then, my boyfriend has talked about it to see if I would let him act out his fantasy. Is it normal to get that kind of pleasure dominating someone when you know she isn't into being dominated?

[b42]

MerryH, I was writing my previous response while you wrote yours. Thank you for breaking it down like that. You make some good arguments, and now I think my original post was ambiguous on some points. I may have overstated the arm grabbing part. It was not aggressive or hurtful, just one of those times when someone pissed him off so he wanted us to leave. "Come on, let's go!" That was more an example of his short temper with other guys. He doesn't get that way toward me. The aggressiveness, while sometimes a little more than necessary or uncalled for, is always toward other guys...if he feels like they are hitting on me or something. He gets jealous, which is why he doesn't like me hanging out with some guys. I can handle guys hitting on me. I say no, and if they don't go away, then I do. My boyfriend gets upset that sometimes I hang out with guys because he doesn't trust them, but he does not forbid me.

He acknowledges his short fuse and doesn't like that he reacts without thinking sometimes. It's something he has been working on and I honestly think it has improved. I know abusers tend to escalate, and that is not happening with him. He is making a real effort to change. Can I really demand that he fixes everything overnight? To me these things take time, and I don't want to give up on him while he's moving in the right direction.

As for being tied up, yes it was unexpected and shocking. He did not gag me though. He thought that because I encouraged some of the rough sex that this wasn't a big step. His previous girlfriends had been okay with it. I admit that tying me while I slept crossed the line, but he didn't force any sexual activity, and when I stood up to him he got the picture. It ended right there.

I'm trying to give as much context as I can. I know he has made mistakes, and his apologies alone do not make everything better. He seems to be trying to change his short fuse, which is what matters I think. At the same time I know that I'm biased because of my feelings for him, so I may need other perspectives. With more context do you still think his domination fantasies are a sign of danger, or are they simply sexual fantasies? That is the one thing I am least certain about after talking to my friends who now think he is crazy. I'm not sure if I don't "get it" because I'm not into that stuff, and it's harmless...or maybe I'm wrong and his fantasy along with his general aggressiveness towards guys and in bed are all signs of something else.

[MerryH]

Thanks for clarifying. It kinda sounds like you're making a lot of excuses for him, though. You know him better than I do, obviously, and you know the situation, but I think making a lot of excuses can be a bad trap to fall into. Watch out for that.

I actually thought a lot about the arm-grabbing thing since you explained it more. I've been thinking, Well, if some guy were creeping on me at a bar and my boyfriend saw and got mad at him, would it be okay for him to grab my arm to lead me away? I was standing in the kitchen with my boyfriend so I asked him just that. No other background info. So he goes, "What, like this?" and got next to me and grabbed my arm (not hard) and took a few steps. It did not feel good. It kinda surprised me how shitty it felt, actually. I mean, this alone isn't a HUGE HUGE deal, but it's not nothing. It was enough for you to remember it and include it in your post, even though now you're telling me that you just mentioned it as an example of how mad he can get at others. And, for the record, my boyfriend's answer to my question was "Eh, it's not really okay. It's kind of weird. I can't picture myself ever doing that." Take that as you will.

With more context do you still think his domination fantasies are a sign of danger, or are they simply sexual fantasies?

Everything else aside, I don't think I could ever again fully trust someone who screwed around with me when I was asleep and at my most vulnerable. I think that the dangerous element here is that he either couldn't control his urges and refrain from sexual activity (and I don't mean just "actual sex") when I can't consent, OR he honestly thought this was an okay thing to do. Either way, it's not good, yeah?

I'm not sure if I don't "get it" because I'm not into that stuff, and it's harmless...or maybe I'm wrong and his fantasy along with his general aggressiveness towards guys and in bed are all signs of something else.

I don't know. Maybe I don't get it, either. Why don't you ask a professional? Therapist, counselor, National Domestic Abuse Hotline (1-800-799-SAFE), etc. Just ask some questions - I'm sure if you don't need to worry about it, they'll let you know. Read up (just found this after a quick Google - I can't vouch for it, looks good though): [url=http://www.pandys.org/articles/bdsmdomesticviolence.html]Difference between BDSM & Domestic Violence | Pandora's Project[/url] I've also heard good things about this book: [url=http://www.amazon.com/Why-Does-He-That-Controlling/dp/0425191656]Amazon.com: Why Does He Do That?: Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men (9780425191651): Lundy Bancroft: Books[/url] Maybe you'll find that your relationship is completely fine, but if not at least you'll know so you can start making some decisions before it gets really terrible. Either way, I wish you the best. : )

[b42]

Infern0, quietandshy, and MerryH,

Thank you for your replies and concern. Although I am still on the fence about this, I will try to consider his behavior from an outsider's perspective going forward. MerryH, those links are very helpful and they gave me ideas for better Google searches. I'm not just finding "yeah I like when my boyfriend chokes/ties me in bed" forum discussions anymore. Still, nearly all of the early warning signs of abusers are far beyond what my boyfriend does. There are a few things that I would not have associated with abusers though. I think now I know more about what to look for that I may have been ignoring before.

I'm also going to find that Bancroft book at the library. One of the reviews on Amazon mentions that the book includes a detailed list of standards that describe men who are truly trying to be a better person. This should help me determine if he is genuine in his efforts and really making progress or if I'm only seeing what I want to see.

[wanderer7]

Some people are into BDSM. He may be a dom or want to be. BDSM is supposed to be consensual.
If he doesn't do it again after you say no more that is a good sign. I would think he doesn't have a problem of some sort.

W