The 6th sense

[sweetkissesforu]

im beginning to wonder if all men sterotype woman

[SelflessnHumble]

im beginning to wonder if all men sterotype woman

Nope, not at all, lol!

[I'mGoingCrazy]

I still haven't heard a logical explanation as to what have caused her vag-J to get all stretched out like that.

I've talked to a few women in real life about it and they both seemed to think the x-gf was definitely cheating. What's so messed up about this, is, before this happened (the stretched out vag-J), she & were reading a book together that I had read, "Why Women Have Sex". She was reading and commenting on it as we drove home from a weekend getaway. She explained that a woman's vagina will stretch during sex to accommodate whatever size it needs to. Then, just a few weeks later this 6th sense event happened.

But all the women here seem to think I'm a delusional, paranoid insecure little man. I am very confused. Can't wait to talk to a therapist about this stuff face to face. I think it help me figure out what the truth is.

[ashley89]

LMAO, vag-J

[Take2]

Logical explanations:

She had a pap smear. That speculum cranks you wide open, and not in a fun way

She had a large dildo or vibrator

She had sex with someone else

She was more relaxed or more stimulated than she had been before, allowing you deeper penetration

You imagined the change, ether overestimating her past tightness or overestimating her current looseness

For the record, even if she DID cheat, I think you are paranoid and a bit delusional. And more than a bit confused.

[sweetkissesforu]

I still haven't heard a logical explanation as to what have caused her vag-J to get all stretched out like that.

I've talked to a few women in real life about it and they both seemed to think the x-gf was definitely cheating. What's so messed up about this, is, before this happened (the stretched out vag-J), she & were reading a book together that I had read, "Why Women Have Sex". She was reading and commenting on it as we drove home from a weekend getaway. She explained that a woman's vagina will stretch during sex to accommodate whatever size it needs to. Then, just a few weeks later this 6th sense event happened.

But all the women here seem to think I'm a delusional, paranoid insecure little man. I am very confused. Can't wait to talk to a therapist about this stuff face to face. I think it help me figure out what the truth is.

Do you ever think that maybe she was really turned on by you or maybe she was ovulating

[I'mGoingCrazy]

Selflessnhumble:

Wow, your brief bullet point of the events earlier are all dead on. I really appreciate you taking the time to read this and actually comprehend it. I wrote a book in the opening thread and really was skeptical that anyone would actually take the time to read it. Thanks.

Some questions for you:

++++I mean the story goes: she fools around with his best friend in front of him: this has happened to me and it's not cool...
Since I was too chicken shit (as was the OP) to confront both the best friend and the girlfriend: I had no place to bring it up
or dwell on it because I never addressed it: I also did what the OP had done: dump her ass not because I wanted to: just to
show her who's boss-which is also just as wrong.++++

So fooling around with my best friend, in my presence, showing signs of attraction to another man in my presence, this is testing. She's testing me to see how strong my boundaries are. If I fail to confront the situation as it's unfolding, she loses attraction. Kind of like the guy she can walk all over...this was the reason she divorced her husband after only 9 months of marriage. She says she "settled", admits it was a mistake, but the root cause was that she was not attracted to him because she could walk all over him.

Dumping her, and putting her through all the hurt, doesn't accomplish the same thing, in a woman's mind. To confront the situation as it unfolds is attractive. But to not confront and then to cause hurt, is unattractive? Am I getting this right?

Should we, as men, expect every woman to, at some point, run this test? Every woman I've ever dated and had a real relationship with, has done this at least once. Maybe this is a reflection of my non-confrontational style.

So, if I were take her back, again, she's gonna connect the dots that I'm a wuss of a man with no back bone who has allowed her to get away with all these things and there are no consequences for her actions. A man with a lack of boundaries.

Take2 and Sweetkisses:

If there was a logical explanation as to why she was stretched out, such as a pap smear, she would have come forward with that when I confronted her about it. As for her being excessively turned on, or ovulating...no way. She's very orgasmic, she comes really hard during sex, she's even had a few squirting orgasms with me and things didn't get stretched out beyond recognition. We've definitely been together when she was ovulating and things didn't get stretched out. I didn't imagine this.

I'm an average sized guy and I figured out a long time ago I won't date women over 5'-4", 5'-5" max. Taller women generally have larger parts. That night, the analogy would be that she felt like she was 6'-4". Maybe bigger. She was definitely stretched out.

Just after reading through all these threads, and thinking about this again, I am fairly well convinced that she had to have cheated on me that day. Constipation just doesn't explain how that could happen. She told me what I wanted to hear, lied and denied, and I believed it because that's what I wanted to believe.

Before I went over there to confront her, I bought an e-book on the internet called How To Catch Your Lover Cheating. It recommended recording devices, the whole nine yards. Of course, I didn't do any of that, but there was a section on body language and what people do when they lie. She, and the best friend, both, did a lot of those things. One example of someone who is lying is, they place their hand over their mouth or chin. This is the subconscious mind trying to cover up the lie being told by the mouth. There were several other indicators. When I left her apartment after the confrontation, I was CONVINCED she was guilty.

But I allowed myself to eventually believe what I wanted to believe. And now we are both going through massive hurt again. All because I wasn't a strong enough man to confront her poor behavior as it unfolded.

[MerryH]

Goddamnit, why are you so fixated on her vagina? Why can't you accept that there are reasons other than sex that would have affected her tightness? I really don't think you should point to this as unequivocal proof that she cheated on you, since you don't know what you're talking about in that area. Taller woman don't have looser junk, retard. But fine, if having someone agree with you on this will put this discussion to rest, then I agree with you. She totally got DP'd by like a dozen dudes right before going to your house that day. Can you move past this now?

But all the women here seem to think I'm a delusional, paranoid insecure little man. I am very confused. Can't wait to talk to a therapist about this stuff face to face. I think it help me figure out what the truth is.

Yeah, but it's not just because of the tightness thing, it's pretty much everything in your OP. I don't think anyone here has told you that your ex-girlfriend never cheated on you. Maybe you're right. But the way you formed the conclusion that she must have been sleeping around is paranoid and a bit crazy. The wine stopper thing, the ceiling fan, the fact that your friend hooked up with her friend, you just take all these little random circumstances and go, "Oh. Yep. The wine stopper. She definitely screwed that bartender. I knew it." That doesn't seem delusional to you?

And instead of asking her about these things or having a talk with her about not flirting with other guys in front of you, you say nothing and let it fester and become a huge deal. And here you are, over a month after your breakup and you're still obsessing over these little things. Stop it. It doesn't matter anymore. It's over. Your therapist isn't going to help you figure out if she cheated on you or not, so if that's why you made an appointment, don't waste your money and your therapist's time. You should be going there to get over your insecurities and your jealousy issues.

[sweetkissesforu]

[QUOTEI'm an average sized guy and I figured out a long time ago I won't date women over 5'-4", 5'-5" max. Taller women generally have larger parts. That night, the analogy would be that she felt like she was 6'-4". Maybe bigger. She was definitely stretched out.
][/QUOTE]
Narrow minded you should count yourself lucky to have a gf

[I'mGoingCrazy]

Well guys, I think I've figured out what the problem is, and it was me. I didn't confront her for her bad behavior as it was happening. I acted like a wuss. She was assuming she could walk all over me, yet she was very careful about abusing this power.

I think most women can manipulate the men in their life, if they want to, but some are less willing to abuse this power than others. Most women don't like to admit that they've ever manipulated their husband or boyfriend, but I think most are fully capable if they want to.

She was losing attraction for me with every instance of this happening, and finally, she probably rationalized that cheating with my best friend was ok because of the hurt I caused her on 3 separate occasions by dumping her with no explanation. She KNEW the underlying reason was her bad behavior, but because I never confronted her about it, she was losing attraction. I think women are far more likely to cheat around if they end up feeling this way towards their boyfriend or husband. I practically invited this.

I have to get this area of my life handled. I am just realizing this tonight. I've been in denial for all these years. I'm not a TOTAL wuss, but it is a problem and I have to get if fixed before I can get into another relationship.

As for larger women having larger vaginas, how would a straight woman know anything about that? In my experience, larger women have larger, looser fitting vag's than smaller women. I've talked to other guys about this, and I've never had an argument.

I guess it might be hurting some female feelings to read that a man screens on height, but women do this too. Lot's of women say they won't date men under 6', of 5'8" or whatever. Can you imagine being a guy who's only 5-5 and reading or hearing about woman after woman after woman who won't date men under 6' or some other minimum height requirement? Women are instinctively attracted to taller men, it's well documented. I guess the knife cuts both ways. I don't have short-man syndrome, I'm 5-11, but I won't date a tall woman ever again.

As for delusional, yes, I think my behavior was NORMAL, if in fact, my suspicion is correct. If my best friend was lying to me, if the woman I'm in love with is lying to me...if in fact those are both true, which I now believe they were...I don't see it as abnormal to start to look for other clues, like a ceiling fan on full blast in her bedroom when she ALWAYS wanted it off at my place. After the 6th sense event of the stretched vag, yes, I start seeing other things that would have been discounted as "nothing to be concerned about" before.

I will still go see a therapist, I am aware that I have major trust issues. But I think the real thing I need to work on immediately is being MORE confrontational. I will start that tomorrow...I have business confrontation to deal with tomorrow that I don't want to deal with, but it is necessary and I've acted like a wuss for letting it go this long already.

Thanks again to everyone for reading this thread and helping, ESPECIALLY SelflessnHumble. This has been VERY helpful for me. I feel much, much better now.

[SelflessnHumble]

Selflessnhumble:
Wow, your brief bullet point of the events earlier are all dead on. I really appreciate you taking the time to read this and actually comprehend it. I wrote a book in the opening thread and really was skeptical that anyone would actually take the time to read it. Thanks.

You're welcome bro...Truth be told I've lived through this bullshit and while
I do see the paranoia (I've too overlooked at first) the truth is: you two are complete polar opposites-not a match.
Attempting to deal with this situation or even *figure* out who did what is a bit like trying to ice skate up a hill!

Some questions for you:
So fooling around with my best friend, in my presence, showing signs of attraction to another man in my presence, this is testing. She's testing me to see how strong my boundaries are. If I fail to confront the situation as it's unfolding, she loses attraction. Kind of like the guy she can walk all over...this was the reason she divorced her husband after only 9 months of marriage. She says she "settled", admits it was a mistake, but the root cause was that she was not attracted to him because she could walk all over him.

Not necessarily. Each person handles things differently but for certain: IF she truly respected YOU and the relationship
you two supposedly had: she would NOT have done that; let alone in front of you. When this is done (in front of you)
in my vast experience it was to say "phuck you!" without her (verbally) saying it...Worse is that some women view a relationship as a game...When she loses: expect her to always want you back: I've dated this kind of woman before (many times) because I didn't want to learn the truth, much less face it. She could be testing you, or flat out doesn't give two shits what you do UNTIL you actually dump her: then she back peddles like a greasy politician (realizing too little, too late) -however I see no apology was given, either by your BF nor your GF: signs they both could care less about you: the one who gets hurt. Continuing to be around either of them: is a poor decision because it makes *you* feel uncomfortable.
Real friends don't pull this kind of bullshit. A real woman doesn't do what she does in front of you. -Period-

If she was previously married, and told you the reason she divorced was because he was weak-minded, didn't take control
nor action: you are following in the same footsteps as the recently departed...Big mistake...With women like this:
The Weakness you display are invitations to mock, taunt and take advantage of your *in*action(s) especially
your passive aggression...Women can't stand guys who mumble shit under their breath...in your mind you win because
you think you get the last word: in reality: it means she can screw with you and get away with it. -The illusory power trip-

Dumping her, and putting her through all the hurt, doesn't accomplish the same thing, in a woman's mind. To confront the situation as it unfolds is attractive. But to not confront and then to cause hurt, is unattractive? Am I getting this right?

You are missing the complete point here man...It isn't about attraction, which happens at the subconscious level 1st.
This is all about *control* period...This is all about her actions: and how she *feels* zero remorse for these actions.
Either way: this kind of girl is only short term: because eventually even Brad Pitt (in her eyes) would become boring, dull
and docile and/or indecisive. This isn't about you either, nor the attraction. A woman is able to feel attraction for her love interest; but is able to seemingly spread this love around like it's a joint, seriously...I don't know her, nor the exact situation
(because you've demonstrated your perception has altered your reality) so I really don't know what to think...

My girlfriend is the nicest girl I've ever met, and how most promiscuous women portray themselves would never
enter her mind with random men because her upbringing, her environment compared to your girl is different...So I asked
her a hypothetical concerning the fan: she found it extremely odd-especially considering your girl doesn't like the fan on at all. I asked about your friend messing around (you still never addressed exactly what they did?) so I told my girl your BF and your GF were laughing, both drunk and were tickling one another...My girl felt that was highly disrespectful as did I: considering I am probably one of THEE most open minded person I've ever known...She's very reserved, same conclusion.

Should we, as men, expect every woman to, at some point, run this test? Every woman I've ever dated and had a real relationship with, has done this at least once. Maybe this is a reflection of my non-confrontational style.

No, not every woman: but considering you didn't have the problem getting with a girl like this:
The problem soon is realized: you're unable to *keep* a girl like this. Getting her is easy, taming a lioness is not!
My girlfriend hasn't tested me at all, like this BUT I will say this: women are emotional based, men are logically based on reason. You can see the problem before I say anything else, right? So, you need to LEARN more about your partner or prospective girl BEFORE having sex, BEFORE making love, BEFORE letting your wall down and invite a complete stranger
into your life!!! You need to find out HOW to see a person's true intent without ripping open their heart, and looking it over with a 100X jeweler's loop...So the question(s) are: HOW do you do this: Here's how:

When you meet someone (and I don't mean test them either) you simply observe, don't judge anyone.
Everyone is an individual...What you do is:

-See how they treat subordinate people (waiter/waitress)
-Ask OPEN ended questions pertaining to social stereotypes (not yes or no questions!)
-ASK her views on marriage, children, sex, and everything relevant to a relationship.
-Do NOT ask how many men she's slept with, ask about her experiences instead (and not on the 1st date either)
-See how she drives, YES how she drives! <------This tells you so much about a person.
-How does she view her job? With contempt? With satisfaction?

Pay attention to her face, her eyes, her mouth, her body movements when she answers what you've asked.
Don't ask these questions as if they were a test at school. Create new openings to ask these questions, get creative.
This isn't a lie detector test either...These are legitimate questions you are interested in knowing about *her*
It just so happens that a natural by-product of these questions also reveal her intent -to a degree, of course...

NO one can truly know a person's intent: but ask yourself...Do your thoughts define YOUR intent?
People always say, "Well, I thought I was doing a good thing" -but this doesn't fly in reality...
People's actions/emotions convey intent, not simple thoughts...If this were true: people could
cheat all they'd want, but then say, "Well, I thought it was wrong but I couldn't say no!" -Oh......OOOOOh Kaaaaaaaay!!!!!-

If I intend to murder someone, but then don't: look at the outcome.
I don't condone murder of any kind but for the sake of argument: Intent is 9/10's of law, it is defined as action.
If I intend to commit suicide: but never actually do it...Do I truly intend to commit suicide? Nope.

A person who commits an action doesn't just think about it...it's the physical manifestation of these thoughts into actions
is what defines intent, see that? I cannot *judge* based on a thought.

So, if I were take her back, again, she's gonna connect the dots that I'm a wuss of a man with no back bone who has allowed her to get away with all these things and there are no consequences for her actions. A man with a lack of boundaries.

Listen very carefully:
Women do NOT see things as I have defined them as!!!!!!
They don't sit there and plot: "I'mGoingCrazy is a wuss of a man with no back bone, he's a pussy and blah blah blah..."
It doesn't work that way...It's almost like a dog. You say "Spot, go get the paper." He hears, "Blah, blah-blo-blu-blah."

The universal language isn't words my friend, it's your tone! It's your body movements, it's your mannerisms.
These can be learned (by observing) and once they've been learned they can be used against you.
This is why women *need* a strong man (mentally more than physically) A physically strong man is visually appealing sure...but he's not mentally, nor intellectually stimulating to a woman who wants more...She sounds vastly immature
and that's cool....Why? She is who she is: and not you nor anyone else is going to change that about her...

She has to change for herself, not for you: and this is the part you are having trouble with.
You've already demonstrated you dump her, and take her back then seemingly wish to penalize her IF and when
she *chooses* to date someone else because you can't make up your mind what you want...

You need to sit her down: and tell her the truth, this always sets you free.
You need to tell her you have been secretly harboring and internalizing feelings based on what
she has done -which you feel was against YOU and your relationship. (save the VG stretching for now)

You tell her that in a committed relationship: a GF isn't supposed to fondle, touch inappropriately the BF's best friend...
NO matter if they are drunk or not, being accountable for your actions doesn't dissolve based on intoxication, not for you.

Next, you tell her that you don't appreciate it when *SHE* entertains random strangers (whether at a park, a bar, nor the bus ride) because it's your time together, nor do you appreciate it when she asks for another dude's phone number in front of you...You don't call her a slut, or a bitch...You simply state that it's perfectly FINE to do any of those things!

But you state it's not fine to do those things while in an exclusive relationship with someone else: it's not fair to them. (you)
Then you tell her perhaps your view of a committed relationship differs from her definition, and that you would really appreciate it -if she could define how she views a committed relationship, while addressing what she has already done to you.

Listen, hear her out, don't argue. Men who argue lack the fortitude and patience/understanding that a woman requires.
Any guy can yell, verbally abuse and demean a girl: that's what cowards do...A real man appreciates a woman coming
forward with new information and takes it like a man.

If you two cannot see eye to eye, then it's clear: it's time to part ways.
Now you will become "the friend" and you can see 1st hand how she treats a male friend she has had sex with before.

Stop reading into what women do: you will never truly understand them.
I still don't and I have had millions of failed relationships dude, I mean seriously MILLIONS!
What you *can* do is to appreciate a woman for who and what they are: and focus on the positive.
And NEVER seek to change anyone for YOUR own selfish wants...This never works. Compromises ONLY work
IF they are truly efforts made from both parties to meet each other at a place both are comfortable with...

Remember this: a relationship is NEVER 50/50 It's 100% for EACH person!

[SelflessnHumble]

Just because a woman doesn't come forward with information to explain a behavior or condition:
Does NOT mean they were cheating! Just because things don't *add* up: doesn't meant they were lying!
(my experience here, remember?) You will never truly know...This is how you trust people (or don't)

Don't make her pay the penalty for YOUR feelings, which aren't even as of yet substantiated with verifiable proof/confession!

Dude, this is almost retarded.
I've been with girls ranging from 4ft 9 (yes that short) to 6ft 3.
Guess what? The little petite girl, had a bigger vagina (when sexually aroused)
than the tall blonde cheerleader I dated!!! Height isn't the measuring constant you view it as.

It's true...When people lie, they actually have involuntary muscle movements they cannot control!
Especially when people touch or scratch the nose/area. I cannot say for certain (just like you cannot either) but
dude: if YOU "feel" something is off, trust your instinct and get the hell out of this relationship!

I've never once felt like this with my girlfriend, not even ONCE! and I was even more paranoid than you were/are
trust me! I followed them home, I'd call them outside their house just to see if they were where they said they were...I used
to do all of this bullshit: but in truth it was *I* who was the one cheating (see that?) Jealous people usually are
doing the cheating...Trust your gut, not your *mind* your mind will play feelings with you all day long.

Just because you weren't assertive then: doesn't mean you can't be NOW.
Sit her down: be calm, patient, kind and understanding...
Women will tell you everything if you'd just give her a reason to open up.
I can only imagine how you feel about it...This is what I would have done back then if it really bothered me that much, but again this what happens when you get with women who think abstinence is the latest baby name from a book!

[Mongoose]

SnH, I stopped reading this thread long ago, but you deserve a medal!

And I thought our initial exchanges were long... :p

[SelflessnHumble]

SnH, I stopped reading this thread long ago, but you deserve a medal!

And I thought our initial exchanges were long... :p

lol Well, his situation is highly complex because he's got legitimate concerns mixed in with
paranoia-a bad combination to have.

[ashley89]

some of the posts in this thread are longer than essays I've written for school