Issues with gf's past

[ptaylor]

she seams like she has had an unhibited life, If a bloke did what she did you would be what a stud but because its a girl you think she is slutty?? I think you are wrong, if she hasn't cheated on you then what is your issue?? she has had some fun so what. You might be the one she wants to settle down with???????? Have you not had a fruitfull past?? at the end of the day you have to follow your heart and feelings, maybe talk to her and see what she has to say??

[reeba]

i can't believe i'm adding to a thread that is already 3 pages long.

first, i bet everyone here calling this girl a slut and saying that there is a double standard, that guys do not want sluts - were the same people who were posting on another long thread, where a guy was upset that his girlfriend whom he loved wanted to wait not for religious reasons but for personal ones, and the consesus was he needed to dump the prude. he wanted to test her out to make sure she is good in bed before he married her.

you guys want to have a girlfriend who puts out for ya, but hasn't slept around because that is slutty. that sentence only happens once for every girl. so your logic of wanting 'nice' girls does not compute mathematically.

so my question is, how many dates should a girl play hard to get so they aren't a slut? and how many guys should she limit herself to so she is not a slut? what if she is still single at and in her 30's, how many guys is she allowed then? and what things is she not allowed to do to any man, including you, so she is not a slut?

and as a woman... yes, I consider a guys past. if a guy treats women like dirt...why do i think he is going to treat me any different? if a guy views sex as a casual thing.....then why would i think he would be faithful to me and not view me as another 'v card'? so no, i would not date a man who meets either of the above. they are fun as friends and to flirt with. but date....no.

[lawman11]

So, Reeba, you think that a woman with a past of "fun" casual sex, the kind that Ptaylor refers to, disqualifies a woman from being marriage or serious relationship material? What decent looking women who came of age in the 1980s or 1990s who was fun, curious, a bit of a partier, did not partake of some casual sex for the pure pleasure of it? I just think of the women I've dated and the criteria being applied by Reeba would disqualify all of them! And most of them went on to successful, monogamous relationships.

[Take2]

That's exactly [URL="http://therawness.com/why-its-worse-for-women-to-sleep-around/"]right[/URL].

It's not a double standard at all, because getting laid for a man is much more difficult, and requires much more skill, than it does a woman. Who usually hits on who? The man usually hits on the woman. Who has to impress who? The man usually has to impress the woman. And for a man, there's a lot of competition in the form of other men. So you have a lot of men competing to have sex with women.

Think about it this way: What does it take for a female to get laid? What does she have to do? Oh yeah. She picks a guy and just says "yes". She can sleep with as many guys as she wants.

What does a man have to do to get laid? He has to do a lot more. He has to work up the courage to talk to her, be confident, know what to say at exactly the right time, be a little psychic and intuitive, compete with the other men for her attention, compete with her friends for attention, make her feel safe, get her into a sexual mood, cultivate attraction, etc. Basically for a man to get laid, he has to focus his entire mental faculties on working Game on one woman. VERY few men are "naturals" who get women effortlessly. Most men practice for years and years the fine art of seduction.

So if a woman sleeps around with a ton of guys, she's slutty.

If a guy sleeps around with ton of girls, he's a STUD and he's got SKILLS.

The fact that women think it's a double-standard demonstrates how little they understand about men.

Your link and your reiteration of it above are both horribly flawed.

1. An attractive guy doesn't have to work hard to find women to sleep with him. An average looking guy with an average amount of confidence needs only to go to the sorts of places where people hook up, and he will hook up. Just like a woman. It's the same process, there is no cause to laud one and shame the other.

2. OK, but that would be moot for any woman who refuses to sleep with more than one guy during a menstrual cycle. That was my college roommate's philosophy, and that still left ample opportunity to amass a large number of past lovers.

3. We have evolotionary reasons to do a lot of stupid things. We are "hard-wired" to gorge ourselves on fatty and sugary foods whenever they are available. We are "hard-wired" to minimize activity and maximize gain-to be lazy and greedy, in other words. But we have a society that has moved beyond those needs and conflicts with them. Luckily, we have brains and the power to act against impulses that aren't healthy.

4. Birth control.

So yeah, those are certainly some reasons for people to have felt that way. But they are no excuse to go on feeling that way today. Once you realize a belief is based on outmoded ideas or innacurate assumptions, you should adjust accordingly, right?

[Emerald_Dreams]

Your link and your reiteration of it above are both horribly flawed.

It's not, and I'll go through it number by number.

1. An attractive guy doesn't have to work hard to find women to sleep with him. An average looking guy with an average amount of confidence needs only to go to the sorts of places where people hook up, and he will hook up. Just like a woman. It's the same process, there is no cause to laud one and shame the other.

This is not true. Even an attractive guy (I'm assuming you mean physically attractive, here?) still has to play the psychological game to get laid. It's called "Game". Women rarely choose their sex partners based on looks - even very handsome men can still have problems with women if they are shy or lack confidence. Women also do not usually sleep with "average" men. An "average" looking man with "average" confidence will come across to her as ordinary and unimpressive, unless he has other qualities to make up for it, such as financial success. Unless a man can impress a woman, or catch her attention and keep it, he doesn't stand a very good chance of sleeping with her.

On a dating website I used to frequent, the top 10% of men got the majority (95%) of messages from women. These men were all over 6' tall and earned over 80k a year and were all graduates of University. The "average" guys, 5'9" or shorter, earning around 40k a year who only graduated college, were mostly ignored. It took quite a bit of work and effort for these "average" guys to get any contact from the women on this website, which was oft discussed on the forums. For pretty much anyone (most people), graduating University and then going on to earn 80k+ a year is not exactly easy. And keep in mind that the average personal income in the US is around 40k a year. So the men who were exactly that - average - were ignored, while the above average men had massive success.

What does a woman have to do? Put on some make-up or a short skirt and smile? Yeah the two (6', University, 80k income... short skirt?) aren't even in the same ballpark.

2. OK, but that would be moot for any woman who refuses to sleep with more than one guy during a menstrual cycle. That was my college roommate's philosophy, and that still left ample opportunity to amass a large number of past lovers.

It doesn't matter. There's about 3 billion men and 3 billion women in the world. If you want to nitpick about one single insignificant person you know, be my guest. Moving on.

3. We have evolotionary reasons to do a lot of stupid things. We are "hard-wired" to gorge ourselves on fatty and sugary foods whenever they are available. We are "hard-wired" to minimize activity and maximize gain-to be lazy and greedy, in other words. But we have a society that has moved beyond those needs and conflicts with them. Luckily, we have brains and the power to act against impulses that aren't healthy.

It doesn't matter. Despite society, we are still hard-wired by evolution. Men still want to sleep with women with attractive figures and women still seek after successful, confident, powerful men. It is still harder for a man to sleep with a single woman than it is for a woman to sleep with a dozen men.

4. Birth control.

Does everyone use birth control? No they do not. Does a few decades of birth control change millions of years of evolution? Hell no! Number 4, sadly, falls apart under brief scrutiny.

But they are no excuse to go on feeling that way today. Once you realize a belief is based on outmoded ideas or innacurate assumptions, you should adjust accordingly, right?

You have not shown this.

[Take2]

All you have shown is that it might be acceptable to judge a woman who has fathered children out of wedlock. Birth control is so widely available that it would be assisnine to assume a woman has not used it if she has not gotten pregnant. Similarly, it is assinine to assume a woman slept with enough guys to be unsure of parentage of her hypothetical children if no children were actually born.

If we were really "hard-wired" then every man would sleep with as many women as he possibly could. Since that is demonstrably not true, it's not a "hard-wire," it's a predisposition. We don't have to do what we are predisposed to do. SOme people eat healthily despite an innate urge not to. Some guys act civilized in spite of an innate urge not to. We have a choice.

And let's compare apples to apples on effort, here. The average woman is not the slim blonde you find at the club. In America, the average woman is 5'4" and wears a size 12/14. She has to work to find a guy, just like the average guy has to work. And the extremely handsome guy can walk into a club and smile, just like the extremely beautiful girl can. What's more, a 50-year-old guy will find it far easier to pick up women than a 50-year-old woman will find it to pick up men.

Don't try to justify boarish behavior. Own it. Say "it doesn't matter whether it is logical or kind or mature, I just choose to keep my double standard."

[Yet another guy]

The average woman is not the slim blonde you find at the club. In America, the average woman is 5'4" and wears a size 12/14. She has to work to find a guy, just like the average guy has to work. And the extremely handsome guy can walk into a club and smile, just like the extremely beautiful girl can.

I have no idea what size 12/14 is but over here about 80% of girls I've seen are attractive enough to get sex by asking politely (politeness not necessary). Would you, or do you know many women that would agree if even a handsome guy asked "Would you like to ****" (assuming you/they were not in a relationship)? I've never met one. I'm under the impression that most women would require far more effort from the guy while most men wouldn't hesitate unless the asker looks like she was beaten with an ugly stick. Not to mention that those women don't need to ask in the first place because men will come to them.

[Emerald_Dreams]

I would hope that you actually do realize that if a woman sleeps with 2 guys in a short period and gets pregnant, she won't know which one the child belongs to unless they're different races, right? And paternity tests are very expensive - not everyone has that sort of money to throw around. So really you're looking at this from a very narrow minded, hyper-focused tunnel vision. I think you did that in another topic, too.

And let's compare apples to apples on effort, here. The average woman is not the slim blonde you find at the club. In America, the average woman is 5'4" and wears a size 12/14. She has to work to find a guy, just like the average guy has to work. And the extremely handsome guy can walk into a club and smile, just like the extremely beautiful girl can. What's more, a 50-year-old guy will find it far easier to pick up women than a 50-year-old woman will find it to pick up men.

Yes, let's compare apples to apples here. Which you're not doing. At all.*

You completely wrote off all the data I presented to you about what a man has to do to be sexual successful, didn't respond or address a single word of it, and simply said "well, um, women have to work, too!" and left it at that. But you completely failed to point out any examples of what sort of "work" a woman has to do to attract men? You said "blond and petite", but that is not true (it also ignores African Americans and Asians - I can tell you're ethnocentric!**) I can go out to a bar or club with average looking female friends, and they'll get hit on several times in the night. And they don't even have to dress up sexy. A woman doesn't have to do anything to get laid, except say "yes". On the dating website I mentioned, women got on average 10 messages from guys a day. The only determining factor that decided how many messages a woman received was whether or not she was very overweight - and even the overweight women had their pick.

Why is it easier for a 50 year old man to pick up women than a 50 year old woman? Oh, what was that, cuz men are hard-wired to be attracted to young, fertile women. But wait, you just said hard-wiring didn't exist... lol...

The reason it would be easier for a 50 year old man is usually because as men get older, the more financial success they accumulate. I'm glad you brought this example up! It illustrates my points nicely. If you see a 20 year old woman dating a 50 year old man, there's no question about why they're together: She's in it for a sugar daddy, he's in it for a younger woman.

*Because an hour or two of exercise each day is so hard, right?
**Also, men are only attracted to blonds? Really? So you're equating a box of hair dye to 4 years of University? Okay. Um. Sure! Whateeever you say.

Don't try to justify boarish behavior. Own it. Say "it doesn't matter whether it is logical or kind or mature, I just choose to keep my double standard."

You have not shown how it is a double standard.

[Incognito]

Alright! Back on track. So, as I asked before, how is a man who had sexual contact with 30 women any better than a woman who had sexual contact with 30 men? Keep in mind that the circumstances leading up to the act itself are irrelevant and as long as the sex is consensual it counts.

[Emerald_Dreams]

What is your assertion? It seems to be that women can get laid with no effort and men have to have money and "game" and a college degree. So if women need to exercise an hour or two each day to get men, your argument is disproved.

Jogging for an hour a day vs paying thousands upon thousands of dollars for an education? An hour on the Stepmaster vs 8 hours in class? Um, are you seriously saying those are both equal? And it disproves my argument that it's easier for women to get laid? LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!

Similarly, if anyone has ever walked into a bar frequented by enlisted servicemen, your argument is disproved. Those guys don't have money or degrees,

Nope, but if there's one thing they do have, it's MONAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY. A serviceman (usually Naval) has no rent, bills, etc to pay, and they make about 2,000 a month at E-1. I know Seamen who go to a bar and spend hundreds of dollars a night. I know doctors who never get out.

Yeah. LOL!!!!!

[Emerald_Dreams]

Keep in mind that the circumstances leading up to the act itself are irrelevant

Except in the real world the circumstances leading up to the act itself are relevant. We've already gone over this - if the circumstances were irrelevant, you wouldn't have come up with examples such as "crack whore" (circumstance), "naive girl" (circumstance), etc. That's what all the questions I asked (which you dodged, btw) were about. I can see why you dodged my questions: Held up under scrutiny, your argument falls apart.

[Incognito]

Explain exactly how the circumstances affect the numbers. If a woman says "hey ED how many women have you ever slept with?" you can't discount the times that you slept with a prostitute or got some girl drunk and slept with her. Sex is sex, and each time counts.

[Emerald_Dreams]

Another reason servicemen get laid: Women know that after 6 months in a barracks, men will spend all their money to get laid.

[Petit Papillon]

Boys, I just wanted to add something, if I will have to delete some posts again, there will be some infractions flying here and there... It's annoying to delete those posts cause I had to click on each one cause the "select all" didn't work :/

[Emerald_Dreams]

Explain exactly how the circumstances affect the numbers. If a woman says "hey ED how many women have you ever slept with?" you can't discount the times that you slept with a prostitute or got some girl drunk and slept with her. Sex is sex, and each time counts.

But you said rape doesn't count bro.

Dude, seriously. Do you even know what you're talking about? First you say "crack whore", "naive girl", but then you say circumstances don't count. Then you say rape doesn't count, but prostitutes do? Now you're saying rape counts again? lol Dude? Hello?