Two professionals, same salary - can't agree on splitting expenses

[greg2345]

Our problem:
We fight frequently about how to share expenses, and both of us seem to feel very justified in our thought process.

I'd like to get your opinions about how you'd feel in a similar situation or what you think is fair/reasonable.


My girlfriend and I have been together for over a year. Before that we were friends and colleagues in school and work for a few years. In summary, we are the same age (27), and both professionals (physicians in training) with the same level education and current salary. As individuals we are both doing fine financially and in a couple of years we are both expecting to make very high salaries (300k+/yr and about equal to each other).

Our relationship goal is a long-term and committed one. We maintain our own apartments but for nearly the entire relationship, one of us is spending their evenings and weekends at the other's place. We have also spent extended periods of time essentially living together for several months. We know each other's schedules and coordinate our plans, whether they are things done together (most of the time) or letting the other know we need separate time (less often).

Our spending patterns at baseline were very different before we were together, as we grew up differently. My family had more money and a culture of spending without worry much about costs, bargains or deals. Her family had much less money and a culture of frugality with attempts to minimize costs whenever possible.

When together, household work is split as follows. She enjoys cooking and frequently makes elaborate meals for us. I cook less often for us and meals I know how to make are simpler. She hates to clean, I don't mind it- so I do most of the cleaning. She hates driving, I don't mind it, so I do most of that.

Here's our disagreement... (I'm going to do my best to present both sides equally)

She wants me to pay for the majority of our shared expenses. She believes it's a gender role for the man to pay. She becomes very unhappy and upset at the prospect of me not wanting to pay for her, or to "not want to take care of her," in her words. Ideally, she does not want to pay at all for dinners or "dates" out. She is willing to make offers to pay infrequently, but would greatly prefer that I do not take her up on these offers and still pay for us myself. In her own words, when I take her up on these offers, she pays reluctantly and is unhappy about it. Because of my resistance to paying for everything, she is willing to reluctantly split expenses more evenly, but still desires a fixed, uneven split of 70%-30% for example. She has said there is no particular logic to her desires, but she doesn't feel cared for when costs are split equally and all of her female friends in their respective relationships "get paid for and taken care of." Moreover, she discusses this issue with her male friends and reports to me that they are all agree with her that she should be paid for overall. If we fight about this issue, she becomes very upset, citing that it's not about needing the money or to be paid for, it's that she wants me "to WANT to pay for her."

My viewpoint is that I would like expenses split evenly. Ideally, my relationship would be one of mutual respect and contribution, in all ways, including financial. Just like her, for me this issue has nothing to do with ability to pay. It's also about my own emotional response and meaning associated with paying for expenses. I feel disrespected and devalued as a partner in the relationship when I am expected to pay an arbitrarily uneven amount. To me, this means that my love and time are under-valued because I am a man, and that I am essentially paying for her love and time, signalling that hers is more valuable. I feel like the unequal financial burden is an unfair penalty placed on me for being a man. I feel emasculinated and manipulated when she cites other people's personal examples of how seemingly all other men are willing to pay for their women, "so why can't you?" I grow resentful when she is contributing a much more significant portion of her income to her retirement account than I am while expecting me to frequently display my affection by taking her on dinners and "dates." I feel I have embraced a modern concept of gender roles and feminism, and respect and support my girlfriend's personal growth and professional endeavors--frequently offering her my genuine sympathy regarding unfair treatment in the workplace because she's a woman and recognizing the sometimes subtle hardships that have to be overcome because of this. Therefore I become upset and frustrated when I feel like the equality we agree upon in other aspects of life is not being recognied by her when it comes to money.

The end result of our disagreement is that we fight a lot, and we probably do not have as much fun or do as many things together as we could afford to. We both limit activities involving money--I avoid them so I won't feel pressured to consistently pay for her and consequently feel devalued and resentful. She avoids them so she won't feel pressured to pay for herself (or alternate paying) and therefore uncared for an unappreciated. This argument has been going on as long as the relationship has. We still do go out, and I probably still pay an unequally larger amount when averaged over time. When we first got together, I paid for everything. Because of these fights, over a year, costs have slowly become more evenly split. Yet, she remains resentful and unhappy about sharing expenses and this leads to this problem resurfacing very frequently in our arguments.

Ideally, I wish we could both have more fun and do more together, with less emphasis being placed on the costs of things and bills quickly getting taken care of in an alternating fashion. It frustrates me that the somewhat arbitrary emotional value of money (and what it can signify to her in terms of my affection) are limiting our possibilities.

Ideally, she would probably want us to have more fun and do more together, with me not being that concerned about the costs of things and me quickly taking care of our mutual expenses. It probably frustrates her that the emotionally response I have associated with spending unevenly keeps me from paying for her consistently and limits our possibilities.


How would YOU feel in this situation (men and women)? We are both curious about other opinions, and I think we're both equally frustrated how each other doesn't seem to get what seems obvious to the other person.

[qwertz]

Everything should be split 50/50. Me and my bf do this and i earn less than him but i wouldnt have it any other way.

[MerryH]

Is this about you paying for dates and things like that in the present, or does she expect you to pay 70% of your living expenses once you live together? Was she brought up in a culture where the man pays for everything?

[greg2345]

MerryH: We currently have separate places. We often explore the possibility of living together and we agree to split rent and utilities evenly in that scenario. The disagreement concerns all other incidental expenses, especially recreation (restaurants, movies, admission to things, travel) where she is particularly unhappy about sharing these costs.

For example, for travel, she readily shares expenses for plane, but becomes unhappy about the other costs like dining, covers, transportation.

For day-to-day recreation, she expects to mostly be paid for our mutual activities, including driving, parking, dining, and admissions to other activities.


You can get the sense that our disagreement isn't about the big major expenses, more a philosophical disagreement about equity and justice and the strong emotions that each of us have wrapped up in this.

[qwertz]

Thats ridiculous and tight fisted of her. If she can work a decent enough job to earn the same as you, then you share expenses equally unless one of you decides on something waaaay more expensive like out at dinner or whatever.

[MerryH]

This might be a silly idea, but it's sort of a silly situation. It's not about the money for her, it's about the principle, right? She doesn't want to go digging through her adorable little clutch purse to pay after a meal. I sort of get that.

What about taking out a credit card with both your names on it (can you do that if you're unmarried?) to be paid off monthly. You pay 60%, she pays 40%. You hang on to the credit card and it's only to be used for your mutually agreed upon incidental expenses. You can whip it out to pay for things and she still feels like she's getting treated. Would that work? You said it's not really about the money for you, either, and if it would make her feel more ladylike and special or whatever, why make a big deal over paying an extra 10%?

[xxazurexx]

If I earned the same, then I'd go 50/50....naturally.

If he was the higher earner and we lived together, ie: living expenses, bills, food, etc, then of course I'd expect that he contribute more, which my ex partner did and he never grumbled about it.

I wouldn't suggest a fancy restaurant and with all the trims and unless I was in a posistion to be able to pay for it also...hence 50/50 or I'd treat my guy and pay the whole bill. But then I like to spoil...and am not a greedy bitch.

[reeba]

I don't believe in the 50-50 rule. I once had a boyfriend who went as far as keeping a ledger of expenses during vacatations, where he went as far as writing down stamps and newspapers. What was going to be next on the 50-50 ledger? Making sure we spent equal minutes giving oral sex?

What you are in is a personal relationship, not a business relationship. Everyone needs to give/contribute in their own way, and if the other isn't happy with what they are getting from the relationship, than they need to leave. And when I say give/contribute I mean help with chores, do little things to make the person feel special, financial, etc.

She is spending time picking out recipes for you, buying special ingredients, cooking, and then probably cleaning up afterwards = perhaps 3 hours of work on her part. Three hours where she worked and where her end goal was to make you happy. When was the last time you spent three hours preparing for a date? Taking her out? What is that besides a 3 minute phone call to make reservations.

Now according to you her salary will soon be $300,000 a year. Assuming that this salary is based on 2,500 hours of work per year, she just spent over $400 in labor costs and probably another $25 on groceries. So next time you gripe that she doesn't contribute, remember what these meals signify.

[xxazurexx]

I don't believe in the 50-50 rule. I once had a boyfriend who went as far as keeping a ledger of expenses during vacatations, where he went as far as writing down stamps and newspapers. What was going to be next on the 50-50 ledger? Making sure we spent equal minutes giving oral sex?

What you are in is a personal relationship, not a business relationship. Everyone needs to give/contribute in their own way, and if the other isn't happy with what they are getting from the relationship, than they need to leave. And when I say give/contribute I mean help with chores, do little things to make the person feel special, financial, etc.

She is spending time picking out recipes for you, buying special ingredients, cooking, and then probably cleaning up afterwards = perhaps 3 hours of work on her part. Three hours where she worked and where her end goal was to make you happy. When was the last time you spent three hours preparing for a date? Taking her out? What is that besides a 3 minute phone call to make reservations.

Now according to you her salary will soon be $300,000 a year. Assuming that this salary is based on 2,500 hours of work per year, she just spent over $400 in labor costs and probably another $25 on groceries. So next time you gripe that she doesn't contribute, remember what these meals signify.

Ya know this is soooo true. Men tend to forgot those little things that we do for them - good post

[greg2345]

reeba: Your points are well taken. But I'd like to elaborate a little because I think you may be underestimating my appreciation and gratitude toward her non-financial contributions.

Firstly, when she cooks nice meals for me, I go out of my way to praise her and her food and to revist how good it was later to make sure she feels appreciated. I also participate in helping to cook (being her assistant, doing what she tells me) and thus spend a fair amount of time doing it as a joint activity. I also try to do all the cleaning whenever she cooks. I cook her meals on my own too, and do all the cleaning myself, though like I said this is not a special skill I have but I try my best. I will also shop and contribute ingredients when she cooks, and of course when I cook I supply all the ingredients. Generally, I readily get up and serve her when she's over at my place. I usually don't feel right about sitting around and being served when I'm at her's.

You could also look at the fact that when we did live together before, I did the vast majority of the scrubbing, cleaning, and laundry, and I do most of the driving.

My point about feeling un-valued as a man is that when I spend my time doing these things, I also "spend" this much in labor costs since my time is equally valuable as a professional. I feel like our other contributions that don't involve money end up evening out, and I feel like I do my share to help out and appreciate her in other ways.

Thus, I get hurt and bent out of shape when I'm still assigned a "tax" (my perception) as a man to pay for fairly expensive things, or many small things that add up.

And to be honest, if she felt that I wasn't doing my fair share to make her feel valued and appreciated in ways that don't involve money, I would rather explore some ways I could make her feel better and show more affection than to go about it by paying for things.

A final point to keep in mind is that I still do end up paying for more small things and more often. I get insulted that some big expenses of mine like nice dinners seem to be soon forgotten a couple weeks later when any suggestion is made for her to pay for our recreation, which she may do at that point, but only very reluctantly and with experiencing a significant amount of guilt like I'm imposing on her with the very implicit suggestion that I'm "less of a man" for not paying at that point.

[greg2345]

What about taking out a credit card with both your names on it (can you do that if you're unmarried?) to be paid off monthly. You pay 60%, she pays 40%

The idea of having a pool of mutual money to simplify the payment process and make things less awkward for accounting seems very reasonable.

But the arbitrary built-in unfairness continues to not sit well with me. Why are we not just able to enjoy shared experiences with each other and take care of the expenses mutually, and value each other equally in this process. Why do almost all activities need to be seen as something I am providing (even if it's not a big difference in percent) with the implicit feeling that this is something she is deserving of and I am not?

[MerryH]

Why do almost all activities need to be seen as something I am providing (even if it's not a big difference in percent) with the implicit feeling that this is something she is deserving of and I am not?

I don't know, these weird gender roles are so ingrained that it's hard to break out of them, sometimes. I don't think you should get hung up on the perceived unfairness of it, you should rather try to agree to a compromise that you can both be happy with. If you're splitting everything else 50/50, and it's just dinners, trips, etc. that you pay a small percentage more for, and it makes her happy, and it doesn't impact you negatively, why fight over it?

I can understand why you're bothered by it, but if I were in your shoes and a compromise could be reached, this is a not a battle I would pick.

[KingZ]

Greg, there's a very simple solution to this problem.

1) Go down on her.
2) Enslave her via tongue-gasm.
3) ????
4) PROFIT!

[sweetkissesforu]

reeba: Your points are well taken. But I'd like to elaborate a little because I think you may be underestimating my appreciation and gratitude toward her non-financial contributions.

Firstly, when she cooks nice meals for me, I go out of my way to praise her and her food and to revist how good it was later to make sure she feels appreciated. I also participate in helping to cook (being her assistant, doing what she tells me) and thus spend a fair amount of time doing it as a joint activity. I also try to do all the cleaning whenever she cooks. I cook her meals on my own too, and do all the cleaning myself, though like I said this is not a special skill I have but I try my best. I will also shop and contribute ingredients when she cooks, and of course when I cook I supply all the ingredients. Generally, I readily get up and serve her when she's over at my place. I usually don't feel right about sitting around and being served when I'm at her's.

You could also look at the fact that when we did live together before, I did the vast majority of the scrubbing, cleaning, and laundry, and I do most of the driving.

My point about feeling un-valued as a man is that when I spend my time doing these things, I also "spend" this much in labor costs since my time is equally valuable as a professional. I feel like our other contributions that don't involve money end up evening out, and I feel like I do my share to help out and appreciate her in other ways.

Thus, I get hurt and bent out of shape when I'm still assigned a "tax" (my perception) as a man to pay for fairly expensive things, or many small things that add up.

And to be honest, if she felt that I wasn't doing my fair share to make her feel valued and appreciated in ways that don't involve money, I would rather explore some ways I could make her feel better and show more affection than to go about it by paying for things.

A final point to keep in mind is that I still do end up paying for more small things and more often. I get insulted that some big expenses of mine like nice dinners seem to be soon forgotten a couple weeks later when any suggestion is made for her to pay for our recreation, which she may do at that point, but only very reluctantly and with experiencing a significant amount of guilt like I'm imposing on her with the very implicit suggestion that I'm "less of a man" for not paying at that point.

Your relationship sounds so much like a business realationship

[reeba]

You know this site is full of 50-50 stories. Like who folded the most laundry that week. Bickering like unhappily married couples. Yes your gf probably is a little self adsorbed. But I still say you are nickle and diming your relationship. So let me explain it this way.

Suppose you break up with her and you go out looking for another prospect. You meet this nice hot waitress and you ask her out. She is a college student, and most likely living paycheck to paycheck. Are you going to expect her to pay 50-50?

If the above girl is worth you picking up her tab, then why isn't your current gf? I bet at one time you paid for her - at the beginning of the relationship. So why are you griping now? Is it because you don't love her as much? Or perhaps you feel that you already got her, so she isn't worth the effort any longer?

You are lucky right now that you have your financial equal and she pays some. Because I can guarantee you that your next girlfriend will expect you to pay up 100%. Sure these girls on this site say they go 50-50. Bet they have never dated someone making several times more than they do. Even a dumb girl will eventually figure out the math, that because you make so much more than her, you spending a dollar is equal to her spending $5. And that fancy restaurant meal she just paid for, was money she should have spent on her utility bill.

So the cold truth is your career and fortune came with a price tag, and that is women will now COST you. You will pay because three things - you are the guy, because you can afford it, and because women want to be able to boast about what their boyfriends did for them. Just because a woman decided on a successful career does not mean that she agreed to give up these three basic things from a man. Note – your gf is only asking for you to pay for a portion of the fun things/gifts, she isn't asking you to pay for her basic humdrum living expenses. She is looking for the boasting factor so her friends don't think she is a fool stuck with a cheap jerk who doesn't give a rip about her.