Please help..... *Should my long term boyfriend of 2 years pay for me?*

[vashti]

As a male, I don't want to pay for a girl unless I already like her; apparently, I'm supposed to pay to find out whether or not I like her.

Not if you are clever enough to come up with a better date option than dinner.

[IndiReloaded]

I'm normally able to understand how Vash/Indi reach certain conclusions, but I'm at a bit of a loss, here.

As a male, I don't want to pay for a girl unless I already like her; apparently, I'm supposed to pay to find out whether or not I like her. This is problematic.

I have nothing against paying at all, I just find it a bit degrading to women (and relationships in general) that I'm essentially paying a small amount of money for the increase in probability that I'll sleep with her. Even if it's $2 for a coffee somewhere, don't you find that bothersome?

No, not in the slightest. $2 is nothing compared to what my time is worth (and most likely his). Personally and professionally. A man who sees it that way isn't a wide enough thinker to hold my interest. So there would never be that lunch or dinner option in any case.

[MaidenMinx]

Ok...
doppel-lol, why are you dating a woman you don't know well enough to know if you want to date her??? That's confusing to me. Any time I have ended up dating someone I have already conversed with them elsewhere enough to know I would like to try to get to know them better.

To sum up what I agree with:
A lot of guys do find it demeaning if they're prepared to pay and you insist on paying your way.
No woman should ever go out with a guy without being prepared to pay her way and should do so if he expects it.
Very few men can do the stay at home parent thing and retain their sanity.
There are a lot of lazy selfish people on the planet.

When hubby and I got together I was unemployed. Our first date, he paid. Our next date (outing) we had actually planned before our first date and we each paid for our own concert tickets though I put the leg work into getting them (I had never ever been on the internet at this point), he paid for the majority of the drinks that night. In the week between our first and second dates I cooked for him every night at my place.
In the years since, the majority of the income earnt and spent between us has been earnt by him. I have worked when I can but it's not easy too, we even tried me working FT and him being Mr Mum but he fails at the carer role of looking after our son (he is a fantastic dad, just not brilliant at keeping up with therapies etc) and I got tired of working all day and having to come home and cook (hubby is a wonderful kitchenhand, but a mediocre cook. I kick arse at cooking to the point when my boy is ok enough I am going to do my bloody apprenticeship even though I'll be 40 or so). I also take care of the finances to a point where hubby will have to ask me how much money is in his bank account (finances freak him out).

Now the point of all that, to the outside world our relationship, especially from a monetary sense is very out of balance. Fact of the matter is money is only one aspect of our relationship and not a very important one. Neither of us stress about money so long as we have enough to cover what we have to do and enough left over to have some fun every now and then. If we do get stressed, I'll pick up a few hours a week somewhere for as long as I can (our son makes me an unreliable employee) to cover the difference.

I think the problem to many relationships have (especially long term ones) is people still think MY money, YOUR money instead of OUR money. Yes everyone needs at least something they can spend each week without having to be accountable for it, but it doesn't need to be much. Hubby is happy if he can buy a second hand CD or a magazine when he feels like it, for me it's cosmetics (aaaaahhhh!! When did I become one of those girls?!) or clothes. If we go out, whoever has cash in their wallet or the keycard pays.

[IndiReloaded]

Actually I think I said my salary was comparible with middle management, as in I get paid well over $100K, I never said that was what I do. I'm actually in quite an artistic field, in a job I thoroughly enjoy. Go figure! Lol.

You make, what, around 60K is my guess. That's a respectable salary. BTW, your UK salary doesn't translate into over 100K here based on simple currency exchange, LOL. You get paid according to your market value for your type of job, which I suspect will be around the same here. Perhaps you've never lived outside the UK, but I have Several countries in fact. Save your BS for someone who doesn't know better.

Anyway, aren't you the guy who is still living at home? Its hard to take seriously someone who has a job but no responsibilities, particularly at your age. I see asian brats like you at the campus all the time. Living at home and driving dad's car to classes. If you are caucasian english you should be ashamed you haven't gotten yourself an investment property yet. So, let's get real here (its a holiday here, I have the time): you are a guy with a reasonable, but not exceptional salary. You work hard, I'm sure. But what do you have to show for this salary?

At your age, I was years post my terminal degree, a job, a child, our first house already largely paid for, investments, and a husband. You've barely started. I'm thinking about retirement and I'm not that much older than you. Can you imagine why you have trouble attracting a woman who is reasonable? You bet men wanted to buy me coffee and lunch. My husband thinks he won the lottery and he did. So did I, but that is to his credit, we are discussing current dating practices.

Hint: its in your attitude. Your money concerns are only a symptom. Good luck Scott, you have quite a lot of growing up to do.

[IndiReloaded]

Now the point of all that, to the outside world our relationship, especially from a monetary sense is very out of balance. Fact of the matter is money is only one aspect of our relationship and not a very important one. Neither of us stress about money so long as we have enough to cover what we have to do and enough left over to have some fun every now and then. If we do get stressed, I'll pick up a few hours a week somewhere for as long as I can (our son makes me an unreliable employee) to cover the difference.

I agree Minx. Tho we are starting to mix subjects here. The question is about dating etiquette. That's different from a committed relationship, IMO. I mean, if either of our husband's became unable to work then we would be the primary breadwinner, yes? Your husband would stay at home with your son b/c that is simply what would need to happen. So, in that sense, there is equality. Taking care of a home and children is, I think, a fair contribution to a family. As much as the person who is providing the money to make it possible.

But who should pay for what when still trying to determine if one wants a committed relationship? Again, it comes down to that buyer's market I mentioned. If a man wants to date me, then he needs to show me his bright plumage.

@ N - I was always open to plumage alternatives other than coffee and dinner. In fact, that's how my husband snagged me (I was dating a lawyer before him). Again, tho, if you want to find interesting partners you have to BE interesting. And squabbling about paying for coffee is a surefire way to demonstrate the small-mindedness that will have a woman like me smile politely and never return your phone call.

[KingZ]

No, not in the slightest. $2 is nothing compared to what my time is worth (and most likely his).

You don't get it.

I don't want to put a monetary value on your time because it's invaluable.

Why are you putting a price on a relationship with you? Why doesn't that make you feel icky?

[IndiReloaded]

Oh, I see now. Well, in this case I agree with you. The cost of a coffee just doesn't hit my radar in the slightest. Its like holding a door for me. Its just polite.

In fact, now that I think of it, I do pay for men on outings. Usually, tho, they are men who I view as my juniors in some way. Typically, I'm older and more established in some way. In that case, I enjoy treating them b/c I happen to enjoy *their* company. Some on this forum here know exactly what I mean. So I'm not a hypocrite.

I am not a rabid feminist either, btw. Men are still men in my world. The kinds of men I interact with enjoy paying for my coffee or lunch, so I let them. They get to enjoy my sparkling wit in exchange. If you ever come to Vancouver, you'll see what I mean. Its quite worth it, even w/o sex. In your case, we may have to agree in advance to flip a coin for who pays for lunch.

[KingZ]

Oh, I see now. Well, in this case I agree with you. The cost of a coffee just doesn't hit my radar in the slightest. Its like holding a door for me. Its just polite.

I am not a rabid feminist, btw. Men are still men in my world. The kinds of men I interact with enjoy paying for my coffee or lunch, so I let them. They get to enjoy my sparkling wit in exchange. If you ever come to Vancouver, you'll see what I mean. Its quite worth it, even w/o sex.

Right, so where do you cross the line? Is it $2, $20, $200, $2,000?

Putting a monetary value to your time isn't where it ends, either. Putting a dollar value to coffee with you also assigns a value to my character. It's filthy.

What if I'm too proud or arrogant to pursue women? Some girls might think I'm funny and they're the ones that ask me to hang out for coffee. Am I going to ask them to pay? No. It's insulting.

[IndiReloaded]

Right, so where do you cross the line? Is it $2, $20, $200, $2,000?

My line re: paying is when, in my judgement, its in danger of being a financial strain. Not b/c of the money but b/c of the lack of responsibility it shows.

Putting a monetary value to your time isn't where it ends, either. Putting a dollar value to coffee with you also assigns a value to my character. It's filthy.

LOL, filthy? No. Small-minded, yes. Anyway, there are so many things to do that don't involve large amounts of money. I'm surprised really at how worried you guys sound. A coffee is nothing. A walk in a park is even less. What are you guys expecting to do that is breaking the budget? I remember bicycle rides and hikes and skating. The odd ice cream or hot chocolate, depending on the season. This is really what you guys are objecting to?

What if I'm too proud or arrogant to pursue women? Some girls might think I'm funny and they're the ones that ask me to hang out for coffee. Am I going to ask them to pay? No. It's insulting.

If its one on one and she asks you, she should pay. Or at least offer to. If you decide you like her enough to gallantly spring for her hot chocolate, then kudos to you. I'd hope the pleasure of her company is worth more than the few dollars it costs. If it isn't, or (in Scott's case) it causes resentment, then maybe you shouldn't be offering?

[MaidenMinx]

Yep, there was some argument mixing in there Indi. I can only relate what I can relate to.

I think I also bought that up because too many people while dating don't think of the long term. Sure everyone is looking for long term but don't actually think of what that long term means. In too many relationships I have observed there is a set of rules for dating (lets take the guy always pays as an example) that are not the same as the set of rules for long term ( I do not know any guys who would be comfortable paying for everything for ever). At some point the dating evolves into a relationship. She starts staying at his place a lot. Maybe she'll cook every now and then, using his groceries. All of a sudden he is irritated. He says something about feeling a li'l used. She says it's because he never stays at her place. They fight.

More often than not this is an argument that will destroy couples and could be avoided. Couples no matter how early in the relationship they are need to make sure they are on the same page (too many couples I have met aren't even in the same book!!!). If you feel the traditional roles are important and should be stuck to, make sure your partner does too. If you believe in splitting every bill down the middle, again make sure your partner does too. If you are not particularly fussed, get on your partners page and adopt their attitude (adopting an attitude doesn't mean you have to keep it forever, if you ditch a partner you can ditch the attitude too).

Oh and to the OP (if you're still reading this thread) I'd suggest telling your parents that while you love them and respect their opinion, you disagree and are happy with the man you have chosen.

[KingZ]

If its one on one and she asks you, she should pay. Or at least offer to. If you decide you like her enough to gallantly spring for her hot chocolate, then kudos to you. I'd hope the pleasure of her company is worth more than the few dollars it costs. If it isn't, or (in Scott's case) it causes resentment, then maybe you shouldn't be offering?

What annoys me is this sense of entitlement you all seem to have to what does nothing but involve women being treated like whores, and you seem to not even realize it. (grammar fail, shut up)

The girl I'm with now—the day I met her, we talked for about 6 hours that night. Later, we went on walks and bike rides together. She would come over and watch a movie with me at my place. All of this is free. When we decided we liked each other enough, we started going out on "dates". Sometimes I pay, sometimes she pays. It has nothing to do with who invited who. We always invite each other and the answer is yes, regardless.

I pay because I care about her and I want her to eat well, not because she tells me that if I have a problem paying that I'm not "worth her time".

If a woman gave me this same petty nonsense, I'd promptly tell her to go fu​ck herself.


By the way, when I come to Vancouver, we're splitting the bill.

[IndiReloaded]

What annoys me is this sense of entitlement you all seem to have to what does nothing but involve women being treated like whores, and you seem to not even realize it. (grammar fail, shut up)

The girl I'm with now—the day I met her, we talked for about 6 hours that night. Later, we went on walks and bike rides together. She would come over and watch a movie with me at my place. All of this is free. When we decided we liked each other enough, we started going out on "dates". Sometimes I pay, sometimes she pays. It has nothing to do with who invited who. We always invite each other and the answer is yes, regardless.

That sounds perfectly reasonable. I approve. You aren't keeping score, nor should you. LOL, a $2 cup of coffee is not being treated like a whore.

I pay because I care about her and I want her to eat well, not because she tells me that if I have a problem paying that I'm not "worth her time".

Your argument is moot b/c you *don't* have a problem paying. Your attitude is the correct one (you place enjoyment of each other and caring above the cost). If you had a different attitude then you probably wouldn't be worth her time.

By the way, when I come to Vancouver, we're splitting the bill.

Sounds fine. Or I can pay, since I care that you eat well.

[GirlOne]

I think the issue comes about due to young women thinking and telling themselves amongst themselves that 'guys should pay' if they were a gentlemen. This then frees their money up to buy more make-up, clothes, bags, new iPad etc, so they can impress even wealthier guys to spend even more of their cash on them.

Then they go to bars, flirt, order drinks and the guy pays. At the end of the evening they leave the guy with not so much as a kiss (although the definite promise of sex, otherwise the guy wouldn't be parting with his cash so readily) and the guy is out of pocket. Sometimes they string it out to another date or two again without paying a penny. Soon the guy gets fed up with paying all the time the girl does or doesn't have sex. In the meantime the girl has been going out with different men, all the time the guys are paying for them. If the guy dumps them, it doesn't matter as there will be plenty of other guys who will part with cash on the promise of sex.

The end result is the girl has years and years of free entry to nightclubs, free drinks and free dinners and free gifts.

Who's gonna argue against that? If the guy complains, it's no problem as the girl has been playing him all along by going out different nights with different men.

Posters here are assuming people have morals and do the right thing. A quick read of various other posts reveals that people (of either gender) clearly don't do the right thing ... My issue is to make sure people identify this grubby entitlement whine by gold-digging girls. Girls should be nice and play fair.

Oh don't worry about the OP. She's probably having arguments with her boyfriend about who's paying tonight or posting again in the Break-up section ;-)

[surfhb]

The Man pays! Period! Its always been that way and always will. Youre the provider in a relationship and this all apart of that. If a girl offers, you can bet I will take her up on it though....because its a sweet gesture but not needed. Once youre past the Honeymoon stage of a relationship, the dynamics are much different.

But if youre past 6 or 7 dates and not getting laid, the relationship is not progressing and its time to move on.

[smackie9]

Well, you live in Surrey. In California, the housing prices around Vash's area are like buying a house around UBC, if that helps. Even 2 profs both making 100K+ have trouble buying a house in that area.

@ Vash, Surrey is not one of the nicer areas of Vancouver. Think East LA (with slightly less crime, but getting there).

A 1200 square foot crappy bungalow in South Surrey is going for over 600,000 now. My mom lives in South Surrey and the houses across the street were selling for 1.6 mil. My 1965 two story that needs full renos is going for 430,000 plus. But I was was making comment out of being from the lower mainland which they claim average housing prices are now from 800,000 to 1.4 mil. Of course if there are houses in my area that do go for well over 1,000,000 because they have a view of the Fraser river.