Questioning morals if you had sex with engaged/married person.

[Wakeup]

No, sorry to come across as if my emotions are involved, but they are'nt. What you and your gf agree to is not a concern. I was just curious if you were both on the same page. Obviously, if she knows of your past and she's still with you, then she's going in with full disclosure. As I said, you both have similar views on such things.

I don't agree with you on this particular point of course, but that doesn't mean I've emotionally invested in our disagreeing It's more about what makes ya tick.

I simply feel the same way that Op's gf feels and I respect my own boundaries enough to know that I would never consider a man for a life partner who would regularily or routinely have sexual relations with someone who was already involved. We just wouldn't be compatible enough for me to take him seriously. Doesn't mean I'd hate the guy though!

Peace.

[haxan]

Haxan, I respectfully disagree. She was already engaged when they had that last fling. That means she was seeing her fiance for, I assume, at least a while. People generally don't get engaged to strangers.

Goodbye sex is when *you* are leaving the committed relationship (i.e. no cheating). God, I sound like such a stodgy, stuckup prig, but really, when you commit to marrying someone don't you think you should be faithful? Not the vows yet, but their spirit at least?

Stop being such a stick in the mud Nah, I see comparisons to enabling addicts, criminal activity etc. If that's the case, then you have to look at intent. If we do that, then the engaged female carries the burden of injuring the victim (fiance). There's no connection or ties between the two males. It's pretty hard to find much intent other than wanting to have a last fling with and old lover for him, isn't it?

If I put us in the shoes of him and his current g/f and reverse it. I wouldn't tie you to the stake for being caught up in that moment. Of course that's knowing that all of the current moments are ours exclusively from here on out

[IndiReloaded]

There's no connection or ties between the two males. It's pretty hard to find much intent other than wanting to have a last fling with and old lover for him, isn't it?

Okay, I'll go for Completely Pedantic, for $800 Alex.

Not if he knew she was engaged to someone else. He doesn't have to know the other male personally for it to still be wrong. Anyway, some of those males make it a point to find out who the other guy is/was. Wouldn't that be a treat? It would be smarter to know the cuckold (there's an anachronism!) is for certain harmless. But yes, I do think being 'caught in a moment' is quite different from the conscious choice to enable cheating, which is Stungs position.

I believe that my moral sphere should extend beyond myself and my loved ones. Certainly, there is more responsibility to those one cares directly about, but really why choose to help someone else betray a trust? I'm fortunate enough in my life to not deliberately harm or take advantage of others.

Stings point? Why not take advantage of another's weakness?

My (equally valid and arguably more socially congruent point): Why not choose *not* to take advantage of another's weakness?

Sting himself said he doesn't lack options, so why make the conscious choice to enable someone else's weakness and, worse, say it okay? Sorry, its just not a position I can accept. Its juvenile and selfish and doesn't do anything to make society better. Ref my point about extrapolating an action.

[78Desantos]

Telling someone dear to you about your past is a choice. its your choice if you want that person to know what you have been doing before. If I would be on that scenario, I would appreciate he's honesty but I think my respect on him would be affected, worst would be, I will break up with him. Because when you did that acts, its not impossible that you cannot do that again. and for me I would not like to be a victim of "heartbreak". it does not mean that the person could not get a chance anymore,but as for me, I would not choose a person like that. please understand my opinion.

[haxan]

Okay, I'll go for Completely Pedantic, for $800 Alex.

Not if he knew she was engaged to someone else. He doesn't have to know the other male personally for it to still be wrong. Anyway, some of those males make it a point to find out who the other guy is/was. Wouldn't that be a treat? It would be smarter to know the cuckold (there's an anachronism!) is for certain harmless. But yes, I do think being 'caught in a moment' is quite different from the conscious choice to enable cheating, which is Stungs position.

I believe that my moral sphere should extend beyond myself and my loved ones. Certainly, there is more responsibility to those one cares directly about, but really why choose to help someone else betray a trust? I'm fortunate enough in my life to not deliberately harm or take advantage of others.

Stings point? Why not take advantage of another's weakness?

My (equally valid and arguably more socially congruent point): Why not choose *not* to take advantage of another's weakness?

Sting himself said he doesn't lack options, so why make the conscious choice to enable someone else's weakness and, worse, say it okay? Sorry, its just not a position I can accept. Its juvenile and selfish and doesn't do anything to make society better. Ref my point about extrapolating an action.

I'm just looking at this from all angles. I thought some of the comparisons to other activity were pretty harsh. To make it all encompassing and immoral? I don't know, it just wouldn't clearly fit it each and every time, to me.

Leaving the fact that yes, the OP does sound like a douche, and probably is, it's not always the crime of the century. Maybe a different set of circumstances with different people. Could he/she/both have gotten caught up in the heat of the moment? A lover that they had particularly intense chemistry with seated inches away, aching to be taken, asking. Perhaps one or both of them hoping that it would change things between them? The last chance to make it work and leave the others behind. I could see it happening. We're human, right?

If a girl I was serious with told me that in her past she had a moment of weakness. That she slept with an ex who had gotten engaged, hoping that it would change things, but didn't. That alone would not make me question her morals or integrity. Like I said before, I'd admire the fact that she was open with me about her life. Nobody is perfect.

I think in a sterile environment, Indi, of course most all of us want to make the right choice. Years ago I hit it off with a girl at the gym. I had just broken up with my g-friend, she still had a b-friend. Eventually our "friendship" (to quote searock) had progressed to the point of no return. She asked me to go to a party at her house on a Saturday night and I told her she had to break it off with her b-friend first. She did, we got together, we dated for a while. When we broke up, she said "g, thanks for making me dump my boyfriend".

So I don't know. Is there a right way?

As for Stung. Forget the enabling part, I have no idea why he would want the drama. I've seen plenty of jilted guy's willing to sit in jail for getting revenge on someone for fu*king their wife. My advice to him would be to be careful. Never know when some strange guy might meet you in a parking lot and shove a Glock down your throat because he found out you were the other guy. Crazy.

If you have options, got it going on, there's plenty of single women out there who fit the same bill.

[IndiReloaded]

I thought some of the comparisons to other activity were pretty harsh.

Haxan you are wonderfully balanced and liberal. They were harsh comparisons. Some were just stupid. I agree w/Stung about consentual acts vs. not, that's a big difference.

OP does sound like a douche, and probably is, it's not always the crime of the century. Maybe a different set of circumstances with different people. Could he/she/both have gotten caught up in the heat of the moment? A lover that they had particularly intense chemistry with seated inches away, aching to be taken, asking. Perhaps one or both of them hoping that it would change things between them? The last chance to make it work and leave the others behind. I could see it happening. We're human, right?

Agree again. Its more Stungs position I take issue with. Noone is immune from a mistake in a moment of passion, I think. But most of us don't try to justify it after. Stung even made this point briefly when he asked about the 'enabler having feelings for the cheater' or something like. But that's a different choice. Someone who says "I love... I don't care" is different from "I fvck... I don't care".

Now, if someone doesn't challenge me on *that* statement, I'll be disappointed.

If a girl I was serious with told me that in her past she had a moment of weakness. That she slept with an ex who had gotten engaged, hoping that it would change things, but didn't. That alone would not make me question her morals or integrity. Like I said before, I'd admire the fact that she was open with me about her life. Nobody is perfect.

Again, agreed. It might make me question her judgement, tho. An engaged ex, happy to have one last fling on *his* fiancee? Not a stellar choice of partner there either. We tell those posters to be happy they dodged that bullet.

Is there a right way?

That's a good question. I think it really depends on the desired outcome of the people involved. In the case of the OP's ex-flame, I'd guess the desired outcome was a long, happy marriage (for her). So yes, there was a 'right way' that probably didn't involve once more for old times sake. Time will tell.

I suppose if the OP's desired outcome was to get them to break up, he didn't go far enough.

As for Stung. Forget the enabling part, I have no idea why he would want the drama. Crazy.

If you have options, got it going on, there's plenty of single women out there who fit the same bill.

Agree. We know why. He likes the attention, he said so. A bit of a self-destructive bent there too, it seems, based on the professional connection. This isn't a moral issue for him, this was made clear several posts back.

Alright, enough thumping this issue, lol. I'm not as rabid about this as I seem. I do think that people tend to get what they deserve and those in this thread (me too) won't be any different. Actually surprised Cafe hasn't chimed in on this one yet.

[Maple1714]

Stung takes a stance and argues it well. He is good at rationalizing...I bet he has some type of IT job. That is all his argument is...a rationalization of his actions/choices. It's just kind of gross behavior to sleep with a married person or person who is cheating. Also gross behavior to use people at all (even though we have all done it) ... It's hard for me to be so one-sided about issues, I have emotions...I am a woman. I feel empathy for others, Stung doesn't seem to. He actually has a lot of these traits....

http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html

Haxan/Indi - I agree with everything you both posted. We are all human and every set of circumstances is different. The OP is a douche, but probably just young (and not just in age).

I think it's great to always be honest with your significant other...about everything....why not?

[IndiReloaded]

LOL, I doubt Stung is a sociopath just young, selfish (and mbe a bit of an ass). Viva la internet. Aren't the different social venn diagrams fascinating?

[Maple1714]

LOL, I doubt Stung is a sociopath just young, selfish (and mbe a bit of an ass). Viva la internet. Aren't the different social venn diagrams fascinating?

Yes, I doubt Stung is a sociopath...but you never know!

My father ran psychiatric hospitals and my mother was a therapist that he hired at one of them...so I grew up in a household where everyone was diagnosed with something. By everyone, I mean every person my father has ever come into contact with. So, I suppose I tend to do this as well.

I read this article (below) a while back...Carl Jung. Something to think about. I have always chosen "boys" that fit into this category. I have recently started to realize that just my partners, but also most of my friends have had absent fathers. Maybe I do this b/c I had a father that was VERY involved and I take after him a lot so I try to be a "father" or parent type to the people in my life. Anyway, off topic in this post but I am just thinking.

http://drpetermilhado.com/puer_complex

[IndiReloaded]

Yes, I doubt Stung is a sociopath...but you never know!

LOL, well, if he is he certainly won't care that we are labelling him as one.