What's with my friend?

[Confused Man]

I have a female friend that I have been friends with for 15 years. Our relationship has always been a little interesting, and we seem to get close, then drift, close, then drift, etc.

When I met her, she was married and I was with my girlfriend for about 5 years. Right from the start, you could tell that there was a connection of some sort. Clearly nothing could happen, but there was clearly something. We drifted a bit since it was weird. A few years later, things got bad with her husband, culminating in a conflict at her house that needed the cops. One of the first calls she made was to me, and of course I came to help her.

As her husband and she started to divorce, I was getting married. 10 years ago her divorce was final, but I was now married and starting a new life. Throughout the 2000's, we talked once in awhile, but really were not very close.

Within the past two years, everything changed again. She turned 40 last year and I decided to take her out for dinner to celebrate. She was not seeing anyone, and I know this bothered her a lot since she always wanted a family. I thought the dinner would be a nice thing, and she was so happy. I felt really good for doing this for her.

The strange thing is that in the past 10 years, she has only dated a couple guys, and none lasted more than a couple weeks. She is a beautiful woman that looks amazing and is an even more amazing person. I have no idea why she chooses to stay single, especially when I know she wanted kids. She tells me she is picky and that all the good guys are married, but I would think she would at least date here and there. I feel a little bad about this, as I said a few times in the past that I don't want her with other guys, and while I said as a joke, im not sure if it possibly resonated. She has told me hundreds of times in the past 10 years that I am her friend, and when her sister met me and was suggesting that she should go out with me, she reiterates that I am her friend. But I kind of feel there is more there. Just in my gut.

In the past year, we have gotten very close. She texts me all the time, and we go back and forth probably 50 times a day. She tells me about all aspects of her life,and often will text when out with friends and their boyfriends/spouses. Very few days go by that we do not talk. Our personalities are very similar and we know each other better than we know ourselves. She seems to enjoy how we can anticipate each other's next statements and often finish each other's thoughts. I love it too. I can tell from her texts when she is upset, even when she is trying not to let on. I was 3,000 miles away one time and knew she was upset and she was shocked. I will say things to her that she is thinking but hasn't verbalized yet. We are both shocked at how connected we are on many levels.

I was hit with the sudden death of my mother a few weeks ago and she was there for me constantly. Calling, texting, asking me to come over to comfort me. She even went with me to get my mom's ashes. Thought nothing to hold my hand and hold me. She loves helping others and being there for others, and really stepped up to help me.

She has come to tell me that I am a very close friend and she is so happy to have me in her life. The thing is that things have progressed with all this closeness. Our relationship is very similar to a dating couple now. Had dinner a few weeks ago, and two people commented to me about "your wife". I told her about the comments and I said that we must have looked good together, and she was so happy and told me that I was so cute. She'll offer to do things for me, and vice versa. I got her flowers after my mom died to thank her for all she did, and she was so happy. She loved that I hand wrote the card that came with the flowers too.

So just the other day, I was at her house and it was very close. Held hands for awhile, and then she cuddled up next to me. I wrapped my arms around her and stayed like that for awhile. I rubbed her arms, legs, stomach, back, even had my hands down her shorts and rubbed her backside and she didn't flinch once. The only areas of her body that I didn't touch are the sexual ones, and I wouldn't do that to her. When I tried to kiss her though, that's where she put up the wall. She wouldn't go there. She will kiss me on the lips hello and goodbye, and when I tried to kiss her she would let me put my lips on hers and linger for a few seconds, but nothing more. That's where it stopped.

What I am confused by is where things are at. I can understand if she just wants to be friends, but then why with all the texting, flirtation, and most of all, the heavy petting.? I mean, letting me have my hands all over her body seems to be a pretty big step. I would think that she would not let it get to that if she wasn't interested. It happened a few times too, so it wasn't a one time thing. If she is interested, then why no kissing? And why is she not dating for 10 years? I'm not going to say it was because of me since we weren't close that entire time, but it does seem strange.

I'm not ready to have a conversation with her about this yet, as she is introverted and not someone that is going to want to talk about this. I know there is a lot going on in her mind and I don't want to put a lot of pressure on her. I'm trying to figure things out a bit on my own as much as I can before I need to address this with her.

Would very much appreciate any ideas. Thanks to all for the help.

[smackie9]

UH how about having a talk with her about the fact you are married and your relationship with her is getting out of hand because it's turning into an emotional affair soon to be a full blown affair. Tell her you understand she is lonely but all this attention she has been giving you isn't helping her situation. Explain to her this is unhealthy for the both of you, not to mention jeopardizing your marriage, and she needs to stop, in fact you do too. Tell her to seek out new relationships, take up a hobby, take some dance classes, go on a trip with a friend, or join a social group, a club....anything that will keep her busy, and get her out of the house.( and away from you).

[smackie9]

Also to add, if she is this amazing, beautiful woman, and she doesn't date hardly at all, with a unsuccessful marriage due to abuse under her belt screams "issues" and "don't go there"........have you heard of "white or shining knight syndrome?" It's posted in the forum.

[smackie9]

Sorry so for your loss btw.

[searock]

I can't believe you are wondering what she feels for you rather than thinking "what the hell am I doing, ruining my marriage just to have a silly emotional affair". You are already emotionally cheating on your wife, which is bad enough, but if you go on it will get even worse. What does your wife has to say about your affair? What does she thinks about the constant texting and dinners out etcetera? I bet she isn't too happy about it. It's *her* you should be focusing on.

[Confused Man]

Ladies, thanks for the responses. My relationship with my wife is not good for other reasons entirely, and I just didn't go into it on the forum because it is another story entirely. Not using it as an excuse, but just it's complicated. My friend knows this,but I can't say that her behavior in recent months is due to this or not. I know mine certainly is though.

My friend is actually incredibly busy. She has a lot of things she does, and is going on vacation with a friend of hers in a couple weeks. She has a ton of friends as well. It just seems that with that, for whatever reason, she wants to tell me about things going on with her both pro and con. Almost always it is she that reaches out to me, but I know she has a lot of people she talks to, including many males. I feel sometimes she likes to mention them to me to try and make me jealous. Just a gut feeling there. But as for specifically why this has exploded recently, I can't really say for sure.

I read about the white knight syndrome, and I know that is me. In fact, I learned that early in life with my mom, as she talked to me about a lot of things. This is how I come about this pretty honestly with women,and how I tend to get sucked in. I am much better than in the past, but still am prone to this. Her issue with her ex was a one time thing and not physical abuse, but her issue is more that she clearly does have deep rooted issues that she holds behind her wall. She has brought it down to me a few times to let some stuff out, but by and large, she tries to hold everything in. With me though, I can see through her and she knows that. I think more than anything else, this is why she and I have gotten closer, as few people really know who we are, but we both know each other. But it has always confused me as to why she has been single so long, as after her divorce she lost about 25 pounds and has kept it off. Shes someone that has a lot to offer but isn't out there and it can't be me since we weren't nearly as close years ago as we are now.

I know this may sound foolish and crazy, but I don't think I would ever take this to a physical affair as I don't think my conscience will let me. I know it is an emotional affair though which is probably worse. I am curious to know why you are so sure that it will progress to more if I don't put a stop to this. Isn't her reluctance to take it too far indicative of where her mind is at, or am I just being naive?

[smackie9]

I know when people that are having issues, relationship or other wise, use emotional affairs as an escape. It's starts to become more of an addiction, and like addictions, it makes you lose sight of reality, you neglect your relationships and other important priorities.....it becomes overwhelming, which you are starting to discover. You are not fooling anyone here, you are using a failing marriage to justify your temptations and needs.You are already weakened and knee deep in this, it's only a matter of time when desire takes over for the both of you.

She has been manipulating this whole thing. She even jumped in, right when you were at your weakest with your mom passing. Don't listen to her words, but look at her actions. She has low self worth, and this emotional affair is giving her a boost. A woman feels very powerful, and makes her feel "special" if she can win the desires of a married man. Her resistance is being used as a tool to manipulate you into committing to her....basically she wants you to leave your marriage before you get sex. But I doubt that will last if this continues the way it has been going.


You really need to deal with things at home. The affair is you avoiding your responsibility to your marriage, you are being spineless. Were those marriage vows just words and had no meaning?

[Confused Man]

Wow, thank you so much for your thoughts. I read over them multiple times and realized that it sounds spot on. It's almost like you know her. Honestly, much of what you say is stuff that I have wondered about for years, but always dismissed, as her words always suggested there was no reason to think anything.

So if I keep distance and don't make myself nearly as available, is that going to give her the idea to back off, or is that going to potentially make her "show her cards" quicker? I know that if I'm not around as much, many people would say that this might make her try harder to get my attention, which is clearly opposite of the desired result. I don't want to play hard to get and make this even more complicated.

"But I doubt that will last if this continues the way this has been going". I assume you mean my marriage, or do you mean her resistance? Gives me pause since I kind of assumed that cooler heads and status quo would prevail.

I am very thankful for your honest assessment, as I could never see this progressing, especially after so many years. I thought I would be smarter, but if not that, then she would never intrude. That's what she says at least. But there's those words again. So much food for thought, as I am probably totally misjudging this and her.

[IndiReloaded]

You are having an emotional affair. That said, you two are clearly very good friends and your friendship has stood the test of time. I wouldn't describe this as the typical story we see: married person having marriage troubles, seeks emotional validation elsewhere.

Given how you two have been there for each other (many married people don't have this kind of trust and closeness), I'd go as far to say you love each other.

What you want to do about this is another story. Do you love your wife truly? Or are you married to the idea of being married? Who do you see yourself getting old with? If your wife or your friend died tomorrow, which would devastate you more? Try to be honest with yourself in your answers. Then decide what you need to do.

I will say this: if you are truly committed to your wife, then you must end your friendship with this other woman. There's no other way to resolve staying married and being this woman's friend. Choose.

She has been manipulating this whole thing. She even jumped in, right when you were at your weakest with your mom passing. Don't listen to her words, but look at her actions. She has low self worth, and this emotional affair is giving her a boost. A woman feels very powerful, and makes her feel "special" if she can win the desires of a married man. Her resistance is being used as a tool to manipulate you into committing to her....basically she wants you to leave your marriage before you get sex. But I doubt that will last if this continues the way it has been going.

Smackie - I respectfully disagree. This guy is just as guilty as the woman.

EDIT - it occurs that if you are really as good friends as you say, then you should be able to have a frank conversation w/her about all this. But beware: exposing all those emotions can be very seductive. Big ego boost to know someone has cared for you for such a long time, right? So. Make sure you know what you want before you go this route. If you want your wife and turns out your friend loves you, then you better be ready to let her go. For everyone's sake, hers too.

[IndiReloaded]

She texts me all the time, and we go back and forth probably 50 times a day.

We are both shocked at how connected we are on many levels.


So just the other day, I was at her house and it was very close. Held hands for awhile, and then she cuddled up next to me. I wrapped my arms around her and stayed like that for awhile. I rubbed her arms, legs, stomach, back, even had my hands down her shorts and rubbed her backside and she didn't flinch once. The only areas of her body that I didn't touch are the sexual ones, and I wouldn't do that to her. When I tried to kiss her though, that's where she put up the wall. She wouldn't go there. She will kiss me on the lips hello and goodbye, and when I tried to kiss her she would let me put my lips on hers and linger for a few seconds, but nothing more. That's where it stopped.

Wow, I just read all this. Your poor wife. You suck, btw. Why this woman would even want someone with so little integrity is beyond me. Maybe you really are meant for each other.

I know people with close friends of the opposite sex but they would *never* cross the boundaries you have. I hope HIA here posts how he waited for his wife for years until she got a divorce. Respect for self first = respect for others. Personally, I have a close male friend I'm very fond of. Neither of us would ever go where you have while the other is married.

Do you have the guts to show your wife this thread? I suspect not, but that might resolve your problem. Anyway, where you are need not be where you are going. Refer to my last about making a decision about what you truly want and then acting accordingly. I wish you luck, this is going to be a foundational decision for you about who you are and what you stand for as a person, I think.

[smackie9]

I never placed blamed on her completely...I know he is just as guilty. I was trying to clarify to him her play in all this, giving an explanation to what her true intentions are and that she is no innocent.

[smackie9]

So if I keep distance and don't make myself nearly as available, is that going to give her the idea to back off, or is that going to potentially make her "show her cards" quicker? I know that if I'm not around as much, many people would say that this might make her try harder to get my attention, which is clearly opposite of the desired result. I don't want to play hard to get and make this even more complicated.
.

You need to stop playing games and tell her straight to leave you alone, that it's over between you two because it's inappropriate. Tell her no more phone calls, texts, dinners, emails, meeting up, hanging out....nothing. It's time to man up and get this done.

You never did say what you are actually looking for. You want your marriage to end? then stop being a coward and end it. You want more than friendship with her? then just tell her what you want. Communication is the only way to make things change.

[Confused Man]

You never did say what you are actually looking for. You want your marriage to end? then stop being a coward and end it. You want more than friendship with her? then just tell her what you want. Communication is the only way to make things change.

That's a good question. What started out as relatively innocent banter changed quickly and caught me off guard. She and I are very similar emotionally and psychologically, and just recently we kind of figured that out which is what made this change so quickly. That's what makes this complex.

As per your suggestion, she is away with a friend of hers on vacation right now. When she flew out Saturday, she texted me at 5:55AM to say she was at the airport, etc. I replied since I was up anyway, and she apologized for waking me, as she thought my phone would be off. Not sure why she texted then, but whatever. Since she has been away, she has checked in with me via e-mail about three times a day and we have talked back and forth. I know I am not the only one she is e-mailing, as she is checking in with family and friends (at least that is what she says), but she admits I have been the best at getting back with her and that has been nice. I deliberately kept my distance to give her a chance to have fun and get away from it all, but she has been in constant contact, even when I didn't reply to her first couple emails. She told me before she left that she was planning to txt me from time to time, and then found out her friend would have access to email on her iPhone, and said she would email me instead since it was cheaper. I have to think her friend must suspect something, although maybe she told her she wanted to email a whole bunch of people. I just found it weird that in the span of 2 hours, she went from saying she would text, to saying that her friend offered her the iPhone... I wondered if she told her friend anything about me, which made me a little uneasy. Her group of friends were a little distant with me when I saw all of them a few months back, so I wonder if something is more open than I think. The same night, her sister, who I met one time prior to that night, reached out, grabbed my hand, and said "it is so good to see you again", which was really out of character for her. I couldn't help thinking she has confided something to her sister about me, as that was weird.

She has gotten more flirtatious too, talking before she left about her packing all her bikinis and her bras that go with different outfits, then telling me about her in her bikini every day at vacation, including how her friend had to help her out of it one day when she drank way too much. Just seems she is trying to tell me something, including how she ends most of her emails with "love you." I know she tells a lot of people that, so not a huge deal in itself.

I think the tactic of trying to lay back a bit isn't working, as when I ignore a txt, she will always txt back a short time later to try and get a conversation going. Its amazing how she tells me every single detail of every single day. Every chore, every errand, what's for dinner, etc. Seems very much like what a wife talks to a husband about. As such, we'll be talking about things once she comes back for sure.

[HeartIsAching]

You are having an emotional affair. That said, you two are clearly very good friends and your friendship has stood the test of time. I wouldn't describe this as the typical story we see: married person having marriage troubles, seeks emotional validation elsewhere.

Given how you two have been there for each other (many married people don't have this kind of trust and closeness), I'd go as far to say you love each other.

What you want to do about this is another story. Do you love your wife truly? Or are you married to the idea of being married? Who do you see yourself getting old with? If your wife or your friend died tomorrow, which would devastate you more? Try to be honest with yourself in your answers. Then decide what you need to do.

I will say this: if you are truly committed to your wife, then you must end your friendship with this other woman. There's no other way to resolve staying married and being this woman's friend. Choose.



Smackie - I respectfully disagree. This guy is just as guilty as the woman.

EDIT - it occurs that if you are really as good friends as you say, then you should be able to have a frank conversation w/her about all this. But beware: exposing all those emotions can be very seductive. Big ego boost to know someone has cared for you for such a long time, right? So. Make sure you know what you want before you go this route. If you want your wife and turns out your friend loves you, then you better be ready to let her go. For everyone's sake, hers too.

This is pretty much exactly what I was going to say.

OP, it boils down to this:

You need to decide whether or not you want to terminate your marriage. That needs to have priority. From my perspective, it would appear that you do.

If you don't want to terminate your marriage, then you need to put on the brakes and distance yourself from your friend. Sucks, but it's true.

If you do, then you still need to put the brakes on, TELL YOUR FRIEND that you're doing so, and why, then terminate your marriage and come to her cleanly. If you don't, there will always be a certain level of distrust between you. If you can be honest in your dealings with your current wife, she'll believe that you will be with her too.

[HeartIsAching]

I know people with close friends of the opposite sex but they would *never* cross the boundaries you have. I hope HIA here posts how he waited for his wife for years until she got a divorce. Respect for self first = respect for others. Personally, I have a close male friend I'm very fond of. Neither of us would ever go where you have while the other is married.

I didn't post about it, because I did cross those boundaries. We tried to end it, several times and ended up not being able to make it stick. At least not until the last couple of years before she moved halfway across the country. Then it was nearly 9 more years before she called me. I guess we had an on/off affair for about 5 years... mostly off.

However you're absolutely right, it was much better for us having come to each other cleanly. It was worth the 20 years of being in love with her to finally get her, and not ever feel distrust or distrusted.