come ya'll let's talk about my sig.

[bohemiandonut]

"Shaddup."

(Ownage of everyone approved!)

[Illusional]

POOT

raverboy

[Only-virgins]

"Shaddup."

(Ownage of everyone approved!)

Double "shuddup" to you!

(Ownage of BD uber super extremely approved)

[bohemiandonut]

Double "shuddup" to you!

(Ownage of BD uber super extremely approved)

You're a virgin.

[Only-virgins]

You're a virgin.

Whats your point?

[Illusional]

he's point is that you still haven't gotten laid because you won't call that girl and ask her for a date.

raverboy

[Only-virgins]

he's point is that you still haven't gotten laid because you won't call that girl and ask her for a date.

raverboy

Easy for you to say.

[Illusional]

well i can only hold your hand so much, it's up to you to actually make that call

raverboy

[nomas]

Damn..sometimes I hate being so busy on weekends that my responses seem so out of date, but:

..and I'll quote kinda what I remember of what you said:

The only reason I ever brought up original sin was to show nomas that sometimes ignorance is not happiness."

Nomas knows that sometimes ignorance is not happiness. But in that very argument, if you ignored the concept of religion as a whole, wouldn't that be an argument toward you being better off with ignorance? This is a little bit of a tangent, but in a way I've been saying: The things we don't know for sure..that are proveable...it's anyone's guess, even if we think we have a better basis for our own theories than our brothers who only have their faith or "hunches"...

Okay, moving on. Nomas, I'm just glad that you agree that ignorance is not something you would choose. I think that opening up to the world makes you a better person, and I think that most of the horrendous acts of this planet's history have been comitted by people who actually needed a firm "shaking." Don't you?

Yeah, I wouldn't choose ignorance for myself. I want to "open up to the world" as in take in all experiences that I can. But this is my ambition for myself. The only place we disagree on here is educating the world. Don't get me wrong....I do think it would be ideal to educate the entire world with all the knowledge that all humanity knows of all time. But we don't have that kind of power, and halfassed education is not acceptable to me...I don't want to give someone a whole bunch of food for thought and say..there, go chew on that for a while and not provide answers. Maybe it's my own learning style that influences my particular bias, but I still don't think it's one size fits all.

Nomas, Logical Positivism is the assertion that a theory can be judged by man's reason. The most "logical" argument gains a place as the most likely. It is "positive" because it trust man to make that decision, or, it trusts that he can.

I'll just slightly modify a quote that a co-worker of mine has on his door as the

bohemiandonut response:
A superfluously redundant, technically complicated if not cognitively challenging and use-limited answer to an otherwise simple question.

I just don't know what you were on about here. Is this an argument against something I said? Don't you go for what's logical too? I'm not sure I said anything hailing the "man's reasoning", but I'm not sure what you're arguing here..maybe it's not this at all.

You do not "value" intellect? Than why are we having this discussion? Without man's mind/reason/logic he would not be alive today. That is our greatest tool on this planet. Everything you know comes out of this intellect. Everything great in the human world comes from man's reason.

Crocodile's have been alive longer than men...is their mind/reson/logic superior to ours? Yes, I value and admire intelect..but, again, it's good for me..not anyone else. I like it..but I don't think of myself as any better than anyone who doesn't share this with me. And I definitely don't agree that everything great in the human world comes from a man's reason. There's just all kinds of beauty in the world that have nothing to do with human reason or intellect.

Another logical construct: Since we do not know if the knowledge we gain in this world will be useful in the next (if a next exists), the safest thing to do is to learn all you can. Get it? Of course, this argument can also be used for praying to Allah, but it's different. Because we can learn things, in fact, we're wired to. It's not the same type of choice to discover Allah as it is to read a scientific journal. Allah follows no logic, it cannot be grasped. Things of the mind can be.

If an afterlife exists..I don't see how anything we do here will be affected by it. There seems to be NO LINK between this and any other world. I think it's wishful thinking... We just don't want to make peace with the idea that once we'll be gone and that's it, no more nomas, no more donut, sombra..nuthin...we're all turning into dirt. That's the end of it. That's what we know for sure.. Whatever else there is..I just don't know, man...I wish/hope, but I don't have faith. Which sux. That's why I don't go trying to turn people with faith. It was nice living in the matrix...now we have to face stupid reality.

[artyemi]

There's just all kinds of beauty in the world that have nothing to do with human reason or intellect.

Sorry to barge in like this, but, if human had no reason, do you think we'd be capable of admiring the beautiful things in this world that exist?

Sure a crocodile has been here longer, but it's not the same. I can't speak for them, of course, because I don't know what they're thinking, or what goes on in their mind, but imagine being a crocodile, just lying around, and the difference between that and us. Our ability to reason, and our intellect add so much more to our daily existence. We can go outside, appreciate a clear blue sky. You guys can enter into this discussion. We can hope. We can wish.
I'm probably going way off topic now, but stupid reality, I have to work.

[indigosoul]

I don't want to give someone a whole bunch of food for thought and say..there, go chew on that for a while and not provide answers.

But yet you quote Socrates in your sig? Isn't this what the Socratic method is all about? Providing thought-provoking questions w/o biasing the students answer (allowing the fact that you bias them somewhat by posing the question in the first place). Thinking is good for everyone. Our thinking minds are a gift of nature. Those who don't make the most of their brains are just lazy.

[nomas]

artyemi, I only used that argument to go against his statement that "we would not be alive today". Merely survival. I wasn't saying we may as well be crocodiles or any other species at all...I guess I'm giving off the wrong vibe here. I do appreciate being human and having my reasoning abilities and intellect, etc, etc.. Like you say, arty, we couldn't appreciate beauty without it. And I do enjoy being challenged intellectually and to think about ideas, indigo,...I'm just claiming it's not for everyone...one size does not fit all. I've just seen a lot of diversity, I guess. I've seen opposite ends of the intellectual spectrum..or at least the low end.. I've seen a simple kind of people living a simple kind of life. I don't think you can go in there and preach ideas completely alien to them and ask them to think like you do. You cannot call them lazy for not having a though processed as conditioned as yours, whereas they may call you lazy because their lifestyle is one of hard work, manual labor and such.

It's a balance..you can't have it all. If you spend your time working the land, it takes away from your reading/learning.

I am NOT saying ignorance is the way to go or saying thou shalt not challenge anyone's mind...it's just that from what I've seen, you won't have much success and I wouldn't be one to have the passion to be as tenacious as to stay and teach someone till they see it my way.

That's all I'm saying.

[bohemiandonut]

Yes! YES! Good job Art and Indigo! Never be afraid to "barge in." You both get +1.

Nomas, what I see from you, though you don't know it, is what I would call "intellectual irresponsibility." You seem to think that you are cursed/blessed with a mind that "some people" do not share. Even if this is true, isn't it kind of a shoddy excuse?

I'd like to see how you resond to Art and Indigo, they both make VERY good points.

First of all, this bothers me:

There seems to be NO LINK between this and any other world. I think it's wishful thinking... We just don't want to make peace with the idea that once we'll be gone and that's it, no more nomas, no more donut, sombra..nuthin...we're all turning into dirt. That's the end of it. That's what we know for sure.. Whatever else there is..I just don't know, man...I wish/hope, but I don't have faith. Which sux. That's why I don't go trying to turn people with faith. It was nice living in the matrix...now we have to face stupid reality.

Your main argument seems to be that I shouldn't shake up people's grasp on "reality," because I don't know any better than they do. But here you talk about facing reality as if you know how meaningless it all is. You seem to be missing my very point about the logical construct. Since we cannot know what's next, but we can learn about reality, this reality, we might as well, because it might come in handy after death. Might. And if it doesn't, so what?

Logical Positivism is my response to your apparent distrust in man's reason, and I quote here:

Back to this (as you put it) "virtuous" behavior I partake in. My argument there was happiness vs unhappiness while all other factors remained constant. If you claim the truth factor was the one that changed, I say it didn't. You merely replace one theory with another.

I'm saying that, yes, truth does change, or, is revealed. There is a reality, and we can learn about it.

[misombra]

i'm so hungry i could eat 10 galaxies.

[misombra]