He doesn't want kids but willing to adopt/foster...

[apple al.]

Hello there friend,

The possibility for you to convince him to have kids on your own instead of adopting is very slim
but who says it will never happen?There is always a way out for every problem.Show him that you're
ready and I believe,someday he will open his heart and have his own kids with you.

For the time being,I'm sure he's just afraid and I do hope that instead of pressuring him,you should
stay and support him.Slowly and slowly guide him to all of this thing.If you can do anything else,
you can handle this situation too.

I can't decide what should you want best.Since that you have said here that he doesn't really commit,
isn't that an obvious sign he's not ready for a further relationship?A man,once he's settle down he will get
anything and one thing left is to find a wife.

We can't really blame him either.The truth about slow starter or late bloomer for men is true and once they
shined,they're way perfect than the rest.

Here I hope you will take things positively,be calm and don't put too much stress on you.I believe he will understand
your needs.

Take care

[smackie9]

IMO, he is throwing the adoption card out there because he fears losing the relationship. I think he has a habit of skating around issues all his life, and knowing how difficult and expensive it is to adopt, I think he is banking on things falling through.

[MsMaccoby]

I am appreciating the range of views here, everyone, thanks!

Smackie9, your thought also came to mind, although in the UK, there is no cost to adopt. It is even possible to access funds to help support adoptive parents. His main answer to my questioning on adoption has been that he would feel like he's helping a person rather than simply bringing another one into this already crowded world. As he has said he worries he would lose his partner to his children (as his reason not to have kids, as well as a lack of paternal desire), I deduce that he's thinking it'd be a worthwhile 'losing' this partner if the partner was doing something 'worthy' because he would be proud of being an adoptive parent. He says he's not sure why, but adopting would outweigh his personal worries. I also asked him if it's cos having an older kid is less burden than a baby, and he said that wasn't a primarily reason but he supposes this could contribute.

I would love to adopt, in principle! However, if he's a reluctant parent, I am much less keen (I believe you have to be superduper committed and skilled parents to cope with special needs as many will have - this is slightly related to my professional field of work which is in parent-child relationships, somewhat ironically). I believe having our own kids is 'likely' to be less hard work if I was to compare (we are both generally high functioning, with easy temperaments). Also, re adoption, it's not guaranteed, due to the likely racial matching that is common practice (despite possible changes in British legislation or 'best practice'). I have known them in the past to be very strict about this, in the interests of the children. I do understand this kinda thing too, which leaves me wondering if we'd be suitable adoptive parents anyway in the best interests a kid. The change in legislation is mainly cos too many kids of half Afro-Carribbean are in the care system for too long, but I can't imagine they would offer us this racial mix, since our mix doesn't include black! What a minefield.

Apple et al., thank you for the supportive, kind comments. Your first paragraph sounds a bit inconsistent to me, but I guess you're saying the chances are very slim but it just might be possible (if I gently show him the way). I think it is worth a bit of time at least, because although this indecision is causing me much angst right now, I hope that what pans out eventually will be more certain after the benefit of a lot of soul searching - either ending in a break-up (and therefore at least knowing myself better, and that I did at least try for the sake of love) or acceptance in either not being a mother or applying to adopt. (Note, that I do doubt he'll change his mind, but I don't dismiss the sheer power of wishful thinking.) You're right, he is so patient with me, I think I am probably pushing a bit much at this early stage when - if I wasn't my age now - we would just be wallowing in our honeymoon period. Also, I think I am suffering from an acute awareness of time passing, and wanting so much out of life, and I am putting this on my bf a bit. For example, every time I go out dancing in a club or a music festival, I think "this may be one of the last times I do this". I guess I'm not sure what to plan for my life transition - Strangely, I did used to think he had a good father vibe about him - reliable, sensible, supportive, stable personality, solvent, smart. That, is rather than being adventurous and proactive - I had also thought I would love to go move to a developing country and do NGO work (in which case kids might be incompatible, though not necessarily!) - He doesn't share this dream with me either (mindblowing as it is to him)! When we travelled in the Pacific North West recently, I could see how outside his comfort zone he was, despite the fact he liked it overall. I just don't see him living in Africa or Asia or somewhere like that (as most ppl wouldn't), while I feel a yearning to commit to something greater than myself whether it's kids or a life dedicated to helping others. Maybe in the end, I need to just get out there and do that by myself.

[smackie9]

You are only 7 months into this relationship...really not enough time to truly know if this relatoinship is able to work for the long haul, and that expections are being fulfilled.....

[VerticalMoon]

To be honest with you, you've called your boyfriend flaky, but some of the comments you've made have sounded more flaky to me than what you claim he's said. First of all, a child is a major life commitment. They're their own person. Bringing one into the world just so that you and your partner have another way to share your love for each other sounds kind of selfish. This is not about you and your partner's love for each other. This is about the love you're willing and able to a whole other person. I used to fantasize about having a child with my husband simply because the idea seemed romantic. When it came down to the reality of having to choose between bringing a child into this world or not, I eventually realized being a parent wasn't for me. I still sometimes melt when I see a couple with a baby and picture us in their shoes. But when I really think about all of the sleepless nights, the stress, the constant attention children need, the lack of alone time, the responsibility that comes along with having kids, I know it's not for me. I'm not saying that it might not be for you. But those are things you really seriously need to consider before you decide on having children, not just how romantic it seems.

One of the comments you made that's stood out to me is this one: "But then, we looked into it and I am thinking that fostering might turn us both off having kids!! " Would this necessarily be a bad thing? If watching kids full-time isn't the right choice for you, isn't better to discover it when you're in a temporary situation rather than after you've already committed yourself to having a kid? One of the most important incidents in my decision not to have kids was when we had to watch my husband's father's kids overnight. The kids were constantly fighting with each other for my attention. After so many hours of this, I was miserable. I would have really loved for my husband to pick up some of the slack. He on the other hand was able to go on the internet while the kids were still in the same room, completely tune them out, and stay completely focused on an unrelated discussion he was having online with a friend of ours. I'd always thought my husband was really good with kids compared to other men I knew. But this made me realize, that his relation with children was pretty different than mine. It also made me realize that I only like kids in small doses, not as a full-time life commitment. I think this was one of the best experiences I could have had because it really showed me a whole side of parenting. I realize if we had our own kids it might be completely different, but then again it might not be. So if something like this makes a person realize they're not cut out to be a parent, I don't see why it's a bad thing.

Anyway, I think nobody can answer the question of whether or not having children is right for you except for you. I also don't think the question needs to be, "Do you want kids?" But rather, "How important is it to you to have kids?" I know people who thought they wanted kids, but when it came down to it their life partner was more important to them. They made the choice to pick one or the other and have been okay with it. On the other hand, some people without kids would always be unhappy without them. Obviously, those people would need to choose differently. You really need to search your heart and soul and decide which type of person you are.

[MsMaccoby]

Thank you for your very thoughtful response, VerticalMoon... That's exactly what I'm doing now, searching to see if I want children or not. This is where the range of opinions help - seeing what resonates with me. I do feel like I CAN have children and be a committed parent; I can make sacrifices, including my career, my social life and hobbies. I'm sorry if it sounded like I was over-romanticising it, but I would also do it because it's to me the sharing of my life with someone, we build a family together - I'm generally a very committed person anyway so I don't have concerns in that regard. It's more whether I'd be okay NOT having kids in order to stay with my partner - that is, sacrifice my 90% wish for children. Part of me does feel I should love him regardless. I wondered if anyone had any experience of that. I was also wondering about the adoption thing, and whether he means it or he might even be kidding himself. :S I don't think my partner's flaky at all! He's very reliable. Just sometimes he says something then it sounds like another, but it's hard to tell whether it's just usual thought process / his difficulty in articulating feelings or whether he's avoiding telling me things that risk breaking us up or hurting me (understandable but I don't want him saying he wants to adopt and then he didn't mean it!). He started off saying he was unsure about kids, yet clearly in retrospect, things were more certain for him because he must've broached that subject with his ex who was also an older woman and desperately wanted children, it turns out.

I see your point about fostering; I was in large part referring to attachment issues as most of these children will be from families of neglect/abuse and these kinds of issues are generally not seen in the general population (as I understand it). And I might struggle if I grew attached to a child who returned to their birth parent. So, what I meant overall was extra complications in addition to usual parenting that might put us off ever having children of our own. The fostering idea he liked because he thought it might ease him into the idea of parenting our own kids, so we'd need to start that soon (he would move in now and we'd work toward it, which he agreed would be good), but I would have to potentially give up my job/career to commit to this.

It still hurts that he said he was worried about having kids in case he couldn't deal with it and it broke us up. He said men always lose their women to their kids. Maybe this does happen and I shouldn't be so hurt. He said he isn't as strong as I want him to be, and in the end, he said he barely keeps up with my life as it is. Going slightly off topic, but those comments did make me wonder.. first, what it was he couldn't keep up with (!) and secondly, whether it means he'd actually be an entirely unsuitable foster, adoptive or birth parent and even partner, as he's saying he can't take too much pressure. The more I write, the more I realise that our relationship is still developing and it's taking a lot of time for him to open up, a LOT. For example, it took him a while to tell me he didn't really like drinking and didn't like drunks, whereas I'd be open about that virtually from the get go ...So, it's hard to make the decision of not having kids until I really know the product I'm buying into. Thanks for listening.

[smackie9]

It sounds to me you both struggle with each others personalities......the more you start to peel back the comments the more incompatibility starts to arise. This leads me to ask, what happened in your other relationships from the time your turned 20? Why are you still looking for a man to start a family at the age of 37? I feel being too busy with a career is a cop out. There are plenty of people that manage like for example people who are in the military. They are away a lot, and still are able to maintain a marriage and raise kids.

[MsMaccoby]

I've been in several long-term relationships from the age of 20, but most lasted around 2 years. There was always something incompatible and we fell out of love. I'm actually friends with some of my exes (albeit distantly) and most have moved abroad and some have married there. I'm happy for them, but I know I wouldn't have moved to those countries. The longest relationship was 4.5 years and we lived together. He was ambivalent about kids, but that was okay then as we were still in our early 30's and most of our friends were just starting to get married. However, he had what I now believe was a psychotic breakdown and I became scared of him and his unpredictability. More generally, I never felt there was a rush to get married and have kids, because the time would come when we felt it would develop naturally. In hindsight, I'm so glad I didn't enter into anything more long-term than living together. It's actually hard to commit to long-term when you are doing a PhD because it takes up so much of your time and energy, and you never know if you have to move afterwards for a job. (I'm not saying this was a conscious decision, but maybe unconsciously, life is still in transition...) I'm not looking for a man to start a family at the age of 37. I am looking for a man, as I always have irrespective of my age, to be the right person for me, which I view as including having a family. It's just the time frame is now somewhat protracted! Firstly, I now feel ready to settle down, if I found the right person - to give up some of the things I have enjoyed so much, such as partying, travelling solo, having my own apartment. Secondly, I don't want to waste time with someone unsuitable for me in the longer term.

It sounds like you are kinda saying it's my own fault that I didn't decide to settle down earlier, but I do believe that none of the guys I was with was a compatible with me long-term, and it probably wouldn't have lasted had I started a family with them. Also, I was still growing and finding myself through my 20's, and I am almost sure I would have grown apart from my partner. This is all 'in hindsight', obviously. People often think I choose to not be with the right person or have kids, but where the hell is the right person?! It hasn't been an easy journey, though I still believe in love and forever.

[smackie9]

This is my point....you have been making poor choices of who you have dated in the past (again like I mentioned "incompatibility" is the source), and I feel it's about to repeat again with this guy......that's why you are here isn't it? Something isn't feeling right again.

[MsMaccoby]

Well, I guess only time will tell, as so far, we seem to be highly compatible, bar the original issue. He's actually somewhat different from other guys I've been with (not the a 'sensitive', creative underachiever type I've previously tended to be attracted to; he works in IT, has a good job and a degree, and plays sports, and is very emotionally stable), but it's too early days to say for sure. After a week apart, we discussed things last night, and we decided to give it a bit more time (although I don't expect he'd change his mind about children in that short time), and also look into viability of the adoption route.

Thank you all for your help.